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How do phones get bricked? Custom roms?

I really don't see all of the 'just flash a ROM, it's easy, go ahead, just do it!' posts that you seem to be seeing.

Instead of the one-note of 'doom follows those who flash custom ROMs
thun.gif
' why don't you just tell people, as I do, to do their research before they even think of flashing?

The 'brick' examples only prove that you can brick - but in what context? What did the user do to produce the brick? That's more relevant than just saying 'Look! Another brick!'. The 'bricks' I've seen are all user error - that error could be flashing any old ROM they find without researching thoroughly, but that's the price you pay if you're going to foolishly jump in without getting educated first.

I guess I'm a firm believer in Darwinism - and suffering the consequences of your actions. Some lessons are tough to learn.

This particular brick was because the USB cable came out during flashing.
2 sure fire ways to brick are losing the battery or USB connection during a flash.
2 simple precautionary measures would have avoided these from happening;
1. Put the battery cover back on after you remove the SD and SIM cards.
2. Make sure the USB is firmly in place and leave the damn thing alone! :rolleyes:
 
I really don't see all of the 'just flash a ROM, it's easy, go ahead, just do it!' posts that you seem to be seeing.

Really? Here's a recent example that pushes OCLF on the newcomer:
http://androidforums.com/samsung-captivate/249917-new-captivate-want-some-tips.html

Others do the same thing, but with ROMs.

why don't you just tell people, as I do, to do their research before they even think of flashing?
Or I could go a step further and provide them some of the info I'd hope that they'd find in their research. ;) Which is what I do.

I'm trying to add some balance and sanity to the overwhelming amount of posts that imply that flashing ROMs is 100% safe, what everyone does, and all the ROMs are perfect and without issues. It gives a false sense of safety and is deceptive.

that's the price you pay if you're going to foolishly jump in without getting educated first.
So you're all for getting users educated about the potential risks and correcting the false-impression that it's 100% safe? Great, we're on the same page then. :)

If a user, after getting all the facts, still wishes to flash a ROM... more power to them. But it's important that they know the risks and repercussions first, and as a community we're doing them no favors by withholding safety issues from them in an attempt to let them burn themselves first as a way to learn.
 
Oh, and a new example of a real brick that wasn't even recoverable by a jig:
xda-developers - View Single Post - [ROM]2.2.1 PHOENIX RISING 2.0 Need I say more?

Guess I'll have to start collecting these for the people who think I'm full of it. ;)

The Captivate is brickable and your risks jump significantly once you start playing with custom ROMs. However, if you're ok with this.... happy hacking! :)

Some of those guys running out and making JIGs aren't getting the proper guidance, so they might not even be using it correctly in the first place. The most common mistake I see with them is that they touch the resistors with bare skin on bare metal, and they change the overall resistance. This might not be the case for the guy you're referencing, but it's a possibility.

I really don't think the risks jump significantly once you start playing with custom ROMs though. Again, I'd rather flash through ClockworkMod Recovery or Odin versus download a OTA Eclair or Froyo update.

When someone has a good understanding on the flashing process, the tools used, and the specific quirks of their phones (related to batch #s), things generally go well.

bruceinman, I know from first hand experience that disconnecting the USB cable mid-Odin flash will not always brick your phone. I've cable pulled a hand full of times mid-flash now, and while the phone APPEARS to be unresponsive, Download Mode still ends up remaining intact on the phone, and I'm able to access it with the JIG. This isn't going to be true all the time, but I really feel like the odds are in our favor. I'm probably going to catch flack for this comment, but I don't even care. I've seen enough posts on this forum, XDA, and the Cognition/Perception IRC to know not to take anyone seriously when they say "Help, I bricked my phone!!" People throw the term "bricked" around too easily, when the majority of the time (with regards to custom ROM flashing) the "bricks" are recoverable.
 
People throw the term "bricked" around too easily, when the majority of the time (with regards to custom ROM flashing) the "bricks" are recoverable.

Agreed. Like I've said before: if you can recover it, then by-definition it wasn't really "bricked" in the first place. :) Or like EarlyMon likes to said: "Almost bricked == almost pregnant."
 
So you're all for getting users educated about the potential risks and correcting the false-impression that it's 100% safe? Great, we're on the same page then. :)
Yes, but we choose to use different methods. I use encouragement to learn all you can before you do anything - not to scare them all with the risks. The education comes with the information of what may go wrong, but not the emphasis. That is my only point.
 
bruceinman, I know from first hand experience that disconnecting the USB cable mid-Odin flash will not always brick your phone. I've cable pulled a hand full of times mid-flash now, and while the phone APPEARS to be unresponsive, Download Mode still ends up remaining intact on the phone, and I'm able to access it with the JIG. This isn't going to be true all the time, but I really feel like the odds are in our favor. I'm probably going to catch flack for this comment, but I don't even care. I've seen enough posts on this forum, XDA, and the Cognition/Perception IRC to know not to take anyone seriously when they say "Help, I bricked my phone!!" People throw the term "bricked" around too easily, when the majority of the time (with regards to custom ROM flashing) the "bricks" are recoverable.

Soft vs hard bricks should be better defiined.
I see battery and USB disconnects as common causes but it's certainly good to know that it can only result in soft bricking.
 
Maybe I've missed how to make this point all along.

In any systems analysis, whether electronic, mechanical or human-in-the-loop, we study risk and we have definitions within the discipline.

Risk = (complexity / maturity) ... in other words, it's a ratio

If something is complicated, but we've done it a super-long time, the risk is lower.

Because the numbers for complexity and maturity don't serve themselves to us on a silver platter, we use comparative norms we develop by gauging against past activities and lessons learned.

Next - comes risk weighting and risk consequence. If the matter at hand is complicated, we break it into steps and assign a risk to each step - each individual risk is then weighted, so something with a low risk - but a big deal - doesn't get ignored because of a step that has a high risk number, but is really peanuts in the big picture.

A final note before focusing: maturity is related to experience - I've met people claiming 10 years experience doing something, and some have that - others have 1 year of experience repeated 10 times.

Why do I mention that? Rooting the captivate is not mature - we can't add up the many successful rooter experiences and say it is. Each new rooter spends - what? a day or two, max? - so if you repeat that for 100k rooters - you still get a relative maturity of 2 days, not 200k days.

Rooting risk = complexity / lower_maturity

The only way to lower that risk value is to judge the relative complexity as lower - and that varies by each human presented into the loop.

The maturity value for rooting is such that it can not be adjudged that risk is not there.

The risk can only be mitigated by pre-study so the rooter knows what to expect (any maturity increase significantly lowers risk) and because that pre-study also allows the candidate to self evaluate the complexity component of the risk for their own personal case.

Finally - risk consequence. We all like to talk about bricks - me, too. In actual practice, that's a single risk consequence and there are others. There are humans in this loop.

We've danced around saying it, but because this has applied to me personally at times in my life, I'll just come out with it:

Make something idiot-proof and a better idiot will come along.

I personally believe that rooting risk can be mitigated for many and made safe enough. The Evo's had a longer rooting history than the Captivate and has a larger dev community contributing to rooting techniques - it's more mature, more people are doing it with fewer consequences than at first. With time, the Captivate will join that ranking.

To say this is a no-risk proposition simply defies the math. If systems analysis has taught us anything, it's that risk math is not wrong.

Soft vs hard bricks should be better defiined.
I see battery and USB disconnects as common causes but it's certainly good to know that it can only result in soft bricking.

Please - words mean things. Bricks only come in one way.
 
Sigh. Well, it's on the internet.

I won't even try to explain what happens when people invent wrong terms for old phenomena.

Don't want to vote on Planck's constant either.

Edit - sorry to be surly.

When tech sub-cultures adopt their own terms in place of the mainstream, it can and often does ruin clear communication for everyone.

If these terms help you guys manage your situation, then great, way to go. However - should you venture into other areas, expect to have to conform to normal std definitions, because a whole lot of the rest of the world will not be having any part of the concept, soft brick.

What that post calls a soft brick, the rest of the world calls, thank-god-it's-not-a-brick-and-you-can-fix-this. Also known as frozen (or frozen-subtype) aka locked-up aka latched.

And that's not my opinion. I've worked ultra-high-tech for decades. ;)
 
This is so annoying. I have been changing my mind back and forth about rooting and lag fixing for the last 4 months. I just wish we had froyo and the ext4 filesystem. The nexus s must be such a nice and peace of mind phone to have (besides the t-mobile part). I will never buy another google phone unless its nexus brand and if nexus doesn't move off of t-mobile, I won't be buying another android phone. I am already thinking about selling my captivate and switching to the samsung wp7 on at&t but in that process I would probably still lose a hundred or two. This might sound harsh but I regret not returning my captivate within the 30 day try out period. The nexus s is such a tease to what the captivate could be. The same core hardware, but different software and filesystem.

Anyway, you guys have been giving some really good advice about rooting and flashing roms. Not everyone can afford to lose such a large investment and there really are a lot of people pushing the rooting and lag fixing onto noobs like me. If anything, a person should get the insurance so that they have to pay a smaller amount to replace it in the case it gets bricked.

On another note, do any of you guys have experience with jailbreaking ipods and iphones. I now believe that not only is android's fragmentation hurting developers, but it is hurting hackers(obvious I guess since they are developers too). When I had my ipod touch, jailbreaking was simple and seamless. Android on the other hand...with phones coming out so often, hackers don't get the same amount of time to work out the kinks on one phone before they move on to another. This is unfortunate.

I would forgive Samsung for taking so long with froyo if they add a setting to make the timeout on the softkeys longer, like the epic 4g has
 
Apples are easily jailbroken because 1) more maturity, and 2) less complexity. That's all I got for you, sorry, never bothered to jailbreak one.

The dev community sticks with a phone or not depending upon their own personal interests. If a greater number of devs like a particular phone for hacking, they stick with it longer and provide more.

Some phones get to the point where - literally - quite safe, one-click rooting methods are developed.

With the Samsung/Windows interface to your firmware, I don't know if that'll ever be possible, but never say never.

Meanwhile, for dread of rooting, try actually doing a dry run - go through the motions, including downloading the files you'll be required to get, but only pretend to root - don't click through. Even cycle your phone with any power-ups required by the process. Get an idea with a dry run what your comfort level is.

If rooting is too hard, that's not your fault.

Without bloatware and with an ability to get and/or control updates ourselves, rooting would simply fall by the wayside as nothing more than hacker fun.
 
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