How do you know when something is closed?

[LLGEG]

I know when you go into manage applications it will show alot of things open, and some, like games or whatnot, you can click the force close button. Obviously just backing out does not close all apps.

Is there an easier way to make sure something is closed and not drawing unnecessary power?

 

[EarlyMon]

Apps that don't exit when using the return key go into hibernation, using no power, and get scheduled by the Dalvik Virtual Machine to get killed off when left asleep long enough. Killing them otherwise tends to cause the Dalvik VM unnecessary work.

There are exceptions to this - poorly written apps, especially carrier bloatware - and instant messengers.

In those cases, the apps themselves are typically consuming resources such as the network that you'd not want anyway. Personally, I'd recommend rooting and freezing those out.

If you're used to other phone operating systems, the number of _apparently_ running apps is disconcerting - but unlike others, Android works differently.

Each app tends to be rather compact and relies on libraries providing needed, common services - it's the illicit or poorly-controlled use of those libraries that will eat a battery, not the apps per se - so, killing an app doesn't necessarily kill the service.

In other words, for the majority of your apps, killing them once asleep is a net no-gain, and can actually increase battery use.

You may get a bigger battery boost by going into settings->accounts and turning off background data and then turning that on only when needed.

 

[Frisco]

Great explanation of that, EM.

 

[Tryn2getaclu]

There are exceptions to this - poorly written apps, especially carrier bloatware - and instant messengers.

In those cases, the apps themselves are typically consuming resources such as the network that you'd not want anyway. Personally, I'd recommend rooting and freezing those out.

Thanks again EM. Being so new to Android, and uncomfortable with the idea of rooting (don't know what I'm doing), I am curious about the sort of apps that I mentioned in the other thread. News, stocks, maps, tunewiki, VZ Nav, and others that open automatically and cannot be moved or turned off or even change polling settings - are those of us not ready for rooting better off to let these just run or continue killing via manual mode in an apps killer like Advanced Task Killer? I have read that automatic settings in task killers can reduce efficiency and cause potential conflicts but I suspect in manual mode those conflicts may not exist. I have A.T.K. but never set up the auto-kill feature. It certainly IS a nuisance to have to go into the T.K. a few times a day (even if only 2 clicks - A.T.K. seems to remember which ones you want to leave open - unchecked), but I would think the frequency these apps poll would be reducing batt life. I guess the question may be (and other considerations I am not yet aware of): which uses more batt life - these apps running full time w/polling or closing them and their automatic re-opening? If we do manually "kill" them, how soon before they open again?

I could be confused and you may have already addressed this in your post above. It seems you differentiated between bloat apps (which is what I think I am addressing here) and other apps. perhaps if you might clarify which ones become "asleep" - "no net gain, and can actually increase battery use." vs bloat that only rooting can improve. are there any that ARE worthwhile to kill using manual mode with something like A.T.K.?

T.I.A.

 

[EarlyMon]

No problem, Tryn2getaclu, this isn't an easy area at all - and it was the first thing that had me completely buffaloed about Android, so I know how it is.

Here's the deal on what the beast is you're fighting - what Android programmers call the intent.

That is a nifty Android app management tool - but - it has become abused in very pernicious ways.

Here's how it works and this is all good: I have a music app running and there's a sister app (same dev or not) that will look up lyrics or artwork. So, you run one of those and an intent is set to run the other two - so - they're good to go at what seems like an instantaneous response to you, the user. OK - that's pretty cool.

But - they're abused in ways you can easily imagine. In my case, I had the Amazon MP3 Store on my Evo as bloatware. Never used it, never will (don't buy mp3s from Amazon, thanks). But - one day, I log in to my Amazon account via my web browser - and presto! - the Amazon MP3 Store app would not die, would not shut up. I'd kill it, it would restart, and then babble with the Amazon servers. The less I did, the more that pig used my battery. They decided _my_ intent was to be in love with Amazon. Others that didn't follow my steps never had a lick of trouble with that app - because no software intent was set by the system.

And - we users cannot get control of intents.

So - on to ATK. I hate ATK because Android changes its app management system from time to time (improving) - and I personally don't like taking on faith that ATK has the right mechanisms in place for any given update.

In general, task killing is like a drug - the more you do it, the more you need to do it, because the evil apps twiddle the intents until they can auto-start faster than you can kill them by any means. So - there's no answer to how soon an app will re-start other than: it depends on how evil the app is.

The good news is that the number one deal with bad apps is they seem to like to sneak in the background and use the internet - therefore, turning off constant Background Data is a good thing. Your Mail app will still get all of your mail just fine without it (I don't bother with Gmail, prefer Mail for all accounts anyways).

News, Stocks and all of the social networking stuff built-in with Sense - those are all insisting that you want all that info up to date, and their developers all think you have infinite resources - as you've discovered. The earlier Elair + Sense let us turn off syncing altogether for those offenders on a case-by-case basis, but they've since done us a big favor and fixed that. (sarcasm)

If in your playing around you've gotten all sorts of things running and your phone has gotten a little chaotic, you can save your data and apps, do a factory reset, and restore your stuff. Lots of people hate that like a tooth-pulling until they try it. Instructions here - http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-support-troubleshooting/141369-how-fix-froyo.html

I avoided that when I was new, but now I swear by it - it fixes a great many evils.

In the meantime, try what works for you - but be very careful - it's easy to believe you're seeing instant results from task killing that a good week of monitoring will make you see otherwise.

As for rooting - it's really the same as getting Administrator privileges on a Windows PC. You don't have to jump in, get custom roms and kernels and go nuts. Once you have root access, you can use Titanium Backup Pro. That will let you "freeze" apps (they'll still be there, but they won't be recognized as programs, so they won't run - they're invisible). You want to freeze rather than delete until you know what you can and cannot remove - if you screw something up, you unfreeze whatever you froze last. So - the concept is not difficult - but sometimes the steps and jargon can be scary at first.

Rooting is NOT for everyone, but I advise everyone to at least give it a thorough checking-out because there's no substitute for being able to take full control of your phone to stop the nonsense.

No matter what, you'll probably end up killing the browser from time to time because it doesn't manage memory well (c'mon Gingerbread!) or in event you visited some site that had a lot of near-malware javascript happening in it.

Let me know if I answered in a way that makes any sense!

 

[dguy]

Android Developers Blog: Multitasking the Android Way

Also watch the 3 parts of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBGfUs9mQYY&feature=player_embedded

 

[jreed2560]

Apps that don't exit when using the return key go into hibernation, using no power, and get scheduled by the Dalvik Virtual Machine to get killed off when left asleep long enough. Killing them otherwise tends to cause the Dalvik VM unnecessary work.

There are exceptions to this - poorly written apps, especially carrier bloatware - and instant messengers.

In those cases, the apps themselves are typically consuming resources such as the network that you'd not want anyway. Personally, I'd recommend rooting and freezing those out.

If you're used to other phone operating systems, the number of _apparently_ running apps is disconcerting - but unlike others, Android works differently.

Each app tends to be rather compact and relies on libraries providing needed, common services - it's the illicit or poorly-controlled use of those libraries that will eat a battery, not the apps per se - so, killing an app doesn't necessarily kill the service.

In other words, for the majority of your apps, killing them once asleep is a net no-gain, and can actually increase battery use.

You may get a bigger battery boost by going into settings->accounts and turning off background data and then turning that on only when needed.

One of the best explanations l of this process I've seen

 

[milan03]

Another one that really helps battery life is Menu->Settings->Wireless and Networks->Mobile Networks->"Enable Always-On Mobile Data". Once that's disabled the battery life shoots through the roof.

 

[jreed2560]

No problem, Tryn2getaclu, this isn't an easy area at all - and it was the first thing that had me completely buffaloed about Android, so I know how it is.

Here's the deal on what the beast is you're fighting - what Android programmers call the intent.

That is a nifty Android app management tool - but - it has become abused in very pernicious ways.

Here's how it works and this is all good: I have a music app running and there's a sister app (same dev or not) that will look up lyrics or artwork. So, you run one of those and an intent is set to run the other two - so - they're good to go at what seems like an instantaneous response to you, the user. OK - that's pretty cool.

But - they're abused in ways you can easily imagine. In my case, I had the Amazon MP3 Store on my Evo as bloatware. Never used it, never will (don't buy mp3s from Amazon, thanks). But - one day, I log in to my Amazon account via my web browser - and presto! - the Amazon MP3 Store app would not die, would not shut up. I'd kill it, it would restart, and then babble with the Amazon servers. The less I did, the more that pig used my battery. They decided _my_ intent was to be in love with Amazon. Others that didn't follow my steps never had a lick of trouble with that app - because no software intent was set by the system.

And - we users cannot get control of intents.

So - on to ATK. I hate ATK because Android changes its app management system from time to time (improving) - and I personally don't like taking on faith that ATK has the right mechanisms in place for any given update.

In general, task killing is like a drug - the more you do it, the more you need to do it, because the evil apps twiddle the intents until they can auto-start faster than you can kill them by any means. So - there's no answer to how soon an app will re-start other than: it depends on how evil the app is.

The good news is that the number one deal with bad apps is they seem to like to sneak in the background and use the internet - therefore, turning off constant Background Data is a good thing. Your Mail app will still get all of your mail just fine without it (I don't bother with Gmail, prefer Mail for all accounts anyways).

News, Stocks and all of the social networking stuff built-in with Sense - those are all insisting that you want all that info up to date, and their developers all think you have infinite resources - as you've discovered. The earlier Elair + Sense let us turn off syncing altogether for those offenders on a case-by-case basis, but they've since done us a big favor and fixed that. (sarcasm)

If in your playing around you've gotten all sorts of things running and your phone has gotten a little chaotic, you can save your data and apps, do a factory reset, and restore your stuff. Lots of people hate that like a tooth-pulling until they try it. Instructions here - http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-support-troubleshooting/141369-how-fix-froyo.html

I avoided that when I was new, but now I swear by it - it fixes a great many evils.

In the meantime, try what works for you - but be very careful - it's easy to believe you're seeing instant results from task killing that a good week of monitoring will make you see otherwise.

As for rooting - it's really the same as getting Administrator privileges on a Windows PC. You don't have to jump in, get custom roms and kernels and go nuts. Once you have root access, you can use Titanium Backup Pro. That will let you "freeze" apps (they'll still be there, but they won't be recognized as programs, so they won't run - they're invisible). You want to freeze rather than delete until you know what you can and cannot remove - if you screw something up, you unfreeze whatever you froze last. So - the concept is not difficult - but sometimes the steps and jargon can be scary at first.

Rooting is NOT for everyone, but I advise everyone to at least give it a thorough checking-out because there's no substitute for being able to take full control of your phone to stop the nonsense.

No matter what, you'll probably end up killing the browser from time to time because it doesn't manage memory well (c'mon Gingerbread!) or in event you visited some site that had a lot of near-malware javascript happening in it.

Let me know if I answered in a way that makes any sense!

You sir, are a jedi master!

 

[EarlyMon]

Another one that really helps battery life is Menu->Settings->Wireless and Networks->Mobile Networks->"Enable Always-On Mobile Data". Once that's disabled the battery life shoots through the roof.

Yes, this is 100% true on the Evo and is among our battery tips and tricks.

You sir, are a jedi master!

Short, looking and sounding like Yoda, I am, so say my friends, mmm.

Home to roost, the chickens have come.

But on Android - I just try to help where I can.

Hey - fwiw - here's the link to the Evo battery tips and tricks. I didn't know how much would be useful to you Bolt cats, but based on what milan03, I think I'll just toss this out there -

http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-tips-tricks/150799-battery-tweaks-htc-evo-4g.html

Sorry if it's off-topic here, but if it's helpful at all, maybe you guys can synthesize some of it for your own greatest hits thing.

 

[Tryn2getaclu]

Thanks again EM. This is becoming very educational. I am not sure I 100% follow everything but it is getting me closer.

I actually have never activated a bunch of these apps that continue to open: News, Stocks, tunewiki, City ID, Music, VZ Navigator, FM Radio. I am guessing they all show ads and thus android can say X# of users "see" your ads - when they are selling ads. Obviously, not true if some of us never open these aps. VZ Nav I suspect is always opening looking to hook (subscribe) those who may not realize Google's is free.

I will look further into root but I am not advanced in "admin access" of any sort. although using computers since DOS, I only learned enough to satisfy my most immediate needs and was never curious enough to dig further. I guess I have always been hesitant not wanting to make matters worse - the same fear that generates so many ID10T & EBKAC revenues for compu-types.

I am enjoying the new adventures into Android, coming from BB, but really find it surprising that when "they" know this phone has battery issues - why they do not create options to just disable the automatic activations of bloat and still leave it there for any who want to use it on an as-wanted basis. Stock, news, etc are all great to have (and probably better versions in market) but many just do not NEED news updating - can wait 3 seconds for it to update when I actually want it and open the app. I never use my phone for music so I will never need tunewiki, music, FM Radio. I certainly do not need weather updated EVER. The weather just does not change all that fast. If I want to see a forecast, can open the app and wait 3 seconds to see all.

While multi-tasking more efficiently than BB is certainly a BIG bonus, the one thing I do give to BB is that ANY/ALL apps (even bloat), other than the essential 5, are closable with 2 clicks and NONE open, run and waste battery without user choosing to open them.

Someone came out with the Phone Info App which seems to basically acccess the same hidden menu that the #-string (when dialed) accesses. While that #-string can be saved for future toggling - the Phone Info app is just as easy. I wish, as as these get rooted, that someone would create an app that would allow users to deactivate individual apps - and their access to internet, GPS, etc - and yet allow those apps to automatically turn those functions back on ONLY when the individual apps are opened (instead of telling us to go turn on the feature to use the app). Or, some other easy toggle. For example, I don't need GPS on UNTIL I activate nav, or any other location based app, and would love GPS OFF and only come on while I am using an app that actually NEEDS it. And it would sure be nice if that feature (GPS in this case) was instantly turned off when the app is closed.

Bottom line, it seems kind of common sense that the more these devices can do, isn't it common sense that more and more battery management options/toggles are worthwhile?

Mail, phone calls, SMS, and V-mail aside - some of us do not need ANYTHING running until we open it. Sure, some want constant updates at various intervals for FB, Twtr, stocks, etc. But forcing everyone - without the options to simply turn this stuff off - to have 3 different music apps opening automatically (with no user option to disable) just seems a ridiculous waste of battery life and on-board resources. I guess we have to take the bad with the good but for a smart phone - some of this just seems stupid. Common app writers, make an app to do this and I'll buy it!

 

[EarlyMon]

You might look into the shortcuts and widgets you can get by long-pressing a blank screen spot.

I use Power Control (Android) (look under widgets, settings), 3G, Airplane, Sync All and Profile, the last 4 by HTC.

Takes up two rows of one of my screens, give me total control. (I won't comment on 4G because our phones are different.)

Then I set shortcuts to Manage Applications, Accounts, Wi-Fi below those.

I get criticized for having or wanting to control things, but my phone is way less efficient than yours, so I just think it's good management to have what I need a click away from on/off.

When I'm low on battery and worrying about phone calls, I like seeing everything else is off at a glance.

And btw - text messages are 2G, so you can be just shy of airplane mode and get voice and text, no problems.

 

[Tryn2getaclu]

Thanks again! I use Power control already, batt widget and Phone Info for keeping 4G off (I live 100 miles from 4G). Phone Info makes the 4G toggle fast and easy for those rare times I will actually be in 4G signal. I'll check out the others. With 7 home screens, I have no problem dedicating an entire home-screen to power management widgets, toggles etc. It just makes sense - like turning off lights at home that I am not using.

Gotta say EM, generous and knowledgeable posters like you are certainly appreciated. Once upon a time some of the other forums (??) were more friendly and helpful but some of those have been taken over by arrogant phanboys that seem to feel newbies seeking info have no place in their "club-house".

Thanks again!

I use k-9 for email and have each of my 4 email accounts set to poll at different intervals too.

 

[EarlyMon]

It's been since last year that I tried it - but you might start a general thread comparing k-9 to built-in mail - when I tried it, built-in mail was just a tad better than k-9, so I think we'd all be interested in a fresh look at that one!

 

[Tryn2getaclu]

It's been since last year that I tried it - but you might start a general thread comparing k-9 to built-in mail - when I tried it, built-in mail was just a tad better than k-9, so I think we'd all be interested in a fresh look at that one!

Well, this is OT but I really do not yet have enough experience with Android and/or k-9 to create an informational thread. But, here is a quick summary of what little I know so far.

TB is my first entry into Android and I only had native MAIL in use for about 2 days. I was wrestling with notifications and prefer keeping my email accounts separate (don't like unified inbox). While I did not spend lots of time on the native, I could not find individual account notifications (tones) and wrestled with some other features (don't remember them all now). I also set a "notifications" tone (phone) and thought I had set a mail notifications tone in MAIL; I was only hearing the phones "notifications" tone and had to dig around in MAIL menus to activate the mail tone.

I posted and several people suggested k-9. I deleted my email accounts form MAIL, loaded k-9 and never looked back. It seems k-9 has many options that MAIL may not (or at least ones I could not easily find). Being accustomed to BB (all push and all accounts separate), K-9 just seems to bring me closer to the layout I prefer. K-9 also lets me set each email account to poll at different intervals (another +). The notifications bar shows indicators for each incoming account and the bar pull-down shows the individual accounts which received new. One click on any takes you directly into that inbox and backing out takes you to a final page showing all inboxes. Overall, while I am sure I have more to learn - K-9 is so far very intuitive.

I have not yet put the G-mail into k-9 (I have G-mail really only for the phone so I keep it separate) but I have read G-mail works fine in K-9 as well. K-9 also has another nice feature "Quiet Time" that lets you set hours for silenced notifications. I do have a yahoo account in it and a Hotmail account too. K-9 tells us that non-paid hotmail doesn't work but it seems to be working for me. Occasionally hotmail polls are not downloading (haven't found any reason or consistency as to when/why) but that is rare. I tried one time to send email from hotmail account to that same hotmail and it said "Host not supported(?)"

So: keeping accounts separate, individual notifications tones, individual account polling times, easy access into individual account inboxes, easy switch between accounts (page shows all accounts with msg counters), "Quiet time", and whatever else I have yet to find/learn = so far a winner for me.

Sorry for going off-topic, but I really do not want to go back to MAIL to learn and develop a full comparison. If someone convinces me MAIL does all this better than K-9 I'll go back to MAIL and try it; for now, I'm satisfied with k-9. As I said, still much more to learn tho.