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HTC Confirms: Passion/Dragon Does Not Exist

I won't answer for bruceo, but it's like the same response from most people looking to make the move from an iPhone but the DROID didn't cut it: UX.

UI/UX, to be specific. People are looking for a satisfying user-experience. The native Android platform is a little rough around the edges and perhaps not as well thought out as the iPhone, which gratifyingly has a simple UI and therefore enjoyable UX. Sense UI is very slick, incorporating a lot of iPhone like gestures, improved connectivity and some small things Android natively did not think of but would rather allow 3rd party developers to cover.

To some, that UX is the end all be all. Some people like to see a huge picture of a contact instead of a line item with thumbnail. Some people like to thumb through their photos instead of clicking on them. Some like to see album covers when then pen through their music. Some like to see their text messages on animated post-it notes. Some like an actual facebook widget that works (native FB widget sucks a duck).

To some, that's necessary because it looks really cool. You can show off to your friends because animation is always cool. bruceo listed some other niggles that he'd rather have that the DROID doesn't include. But that's why you buy an HTC.

At the end of the day, it's UX.
 
the passion HAS to come out. not releasing it would put verizon behind the curve and thats just not gonna happen. it may not be the passion, but there is something coming and its gonna be good.
 
bruceo said:
I dont dislike the Droid but there are a lot of things that fall short of expectations. I have made many lengthy posts on why, so just look up my posts for my take on it....
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I agree with one of them, the processor kills the Eris, I would consider it with a better screen with processor, but that's what we're waiting for with the passion no?

Anyway, it seems like a lot of your issue is with the apps. Maybe this is me being optimistic (or impatient and wanting Any android phone), but once Android becomes THE platform, won't it become trivial to find a decent facebook/twitter app (not that those are that important to me), and a multitouch browser for photos and the net? To me to be honest the big thing that hooked me was the useless but utterly cool weather effects on the HD2. But what if beautiful widgets are finally mastered?

All I'm saying is that with the droid being so new, and many of your complaints being software related, do you see many of them being dealt with as the user base grows? I may just be hopeful.
 
jmccarthy14 said:
I agree with one of them, the processor kills the Eris, I would consider it with a better screen with processor, but that's what we're waiting for with the passion no?

Anyway, it seems like a lot of your issue is with the apps. Maybe this is me being optimistic (or impatient and wanting Any android phone), but once Android becomes THE platform, won't it become trivial to find a decent facebook/twitter app (not that those are that important to me), and a multitouch browser for photos and the net? To me to be honest the big thing that hooked me was the useless but utterly cool weather effects on the HD2. But what if beautiful widgets are finally mastered?

All I'm saying is that with the droid being so new, and many of your complaints being software related, do you see many of them being dealt with as the user base grows? I may just be hopeful.
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Yes I agree that the software is the major downfall of the droid. The hard keyboard and Dpad are pretty sucky, but serviceable. I liked the look and weight at first but i do notice the weight and corners are actually make it pretty uncomfortable when using it as a phone, almost bruises your palm in long calls, you will find youself changing the way you normally hold a handset.

The first droid I had was tight this one now has some clicking in the upper left, but both ave been very annoying to pocket, the weight in pocket is noticeable but the bad part is the slider almost always slides out about1/4-1/2 inch making it wider in pocket but most annoyingly causing the screen to come on and if you use pattern lock you will find your phone in emergency dial mode or excessive bad pattern error. This is a major hardware flaw IMO although it could be somewhat remedied through software by allowing the option to not turn on when slider is opened.

I used to think a hardware keyboard was a necessity until I used HTC's keyboard on the Hero for a month and it was damn good. You dont even need to punch the right letters or even look at the keys it predicts so well. It is better to have a great predictive software keyboard that is roomy with offset keys and true multitouch than a thin, aligned, peeling key, unpredictive hard keyboard which gives multiple hardware failure points in the keys and slider mechanisms. The only prob I had with the Hero and Eris is sometimes the softkeyboard can get laggy due to the ancient processor.

I would say the only app/widget that could match HTCs is Beautiful widgets. He has basically copied in full the weather side and surpassed HTC's widet on Hero and Eris with the popup extended weather and animation which is what HTC has in their newest version of sense. But beatuiful widgets sorely lacks the awesome alarm, stopwatch, timer app. Pure widgets are sort of nice but are also pay widgets and just don't match the polish and integration of the HTC equivalents.

Waiting on apps to get better when HTC has all the ones you really need just doesnt sound appealing or timely. I like the app market and have a ton of apps installed but have been dissapointed to see that there is just not much new app or update activity. There was a lot of update activity when droid came out, but that is about it. Knowing that they supposedly sold 800,000 droids already, you'd think there'd at least be a lot of porting activity and new apps, but even updates are thin. On my ipod touch there is always a bunch of updates and improvements coming through and the apps are generally consistent whereas most of the android apps have a hodgepodge feel to them almost like a half polished version of winmo apps.

i.e With the iphone you have very capapable apps yet my 3 yr old can navigate them and usually figure them out whereas most of the android apps although not as bad as winmo apps, are not typically as capable, yet are more difficult to get accustomed to, which is fine for us technogeeks but not for genpop.

But overall I am personally fine with less uniformity and simplicity i just get irritated with obious and inexcusable omissions and shortcomings like multitouch, swipe navigation, text input, embedded email images, desktop outlook support, multimedia, lock screen music control, many many etc etcs...
 
sooper_droid12 said:
I won't answer for bruceo, but it's like the same response from most people looking to make the move from an iPhone but the DROID didn't cut it: UX.

UI/UX, to be specific. People are looking for a satisfying user-experience. The native Android platform is a little rough around the edges and perhaps not as well thought out as the iPhone, which gratifyingly has a simple UI and therefore enjoyable UX. Sense UI is very slick, incorporating a lot of iPhone like gestures, improved connectivity and some small things Android natively did not think of but would rather allow 3rd party developers to cover.

To some, that UX is the end all be all. Some people like to see a huge picture of a contact instead of a line item with thumbnail. Some people like to thumb through their photos instead of clicking on them. Some like to see album covers when then pen through their music. Some like to see their text messages on animated post-it notes. Some like an actual facebook widget that works (native FB widget sucks a duck).

To some, that's necessary because it looks really cool. You can show off to your friends because animation is always cool. bruceo listed some other niggles that he'd rather have that the DROID doesn't include. But that's why you buy an HTC.

At the end of the day, it's UX.
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A uniform, consistent, reliable UI/environment with supporting hardware is what makes a good user experience. You make the winmo argument, which is tired to me since I was in the winmo environment for over a decade. Although there are actually a lot of things that winmo has that android lacks the UI of Iphone and now Android are burying Winmo and probably soon to be BB. IMO with iPhone being a 100% reference point the Droid hardware wise is 80% there UI and software functionality with Android native maybe 50% with sense and it's core improvements maybe 80%


SOT....Question.... I haven't done the research but knowing that the 3Gs and Droid supposedly have the same proc/GPU why is it that the 3Gs games and graphic intensive apps are incredible and all the android games look like they are ported from winmo?
 
sooper_droid12 said:
We're talking about a $99 phone that was sold for even less for a time. Hmm, wonder why VZW didn't throw any advert behind that phone. Hmmm. Really? If I'm Verizon, I'm not throwing a big party for the Eris. I'm not occupying two Time Square screens to promote the Eris. No return buddy. No return on that investment.
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Problem is that they oversold the Droid. It's not what they are advertising, not at least till they fix it... The Eris has it's obvious shortcomings but it is actually the upgrade to the Sprint Hero. the only thing the Hero has over the Eris is a 1500ma battery. The Eris got smaller, added a proximity sensor, capacitive keys and a few other software tweaks (which got aded to hero in the recent OTA)

Sprints flagship phones that they are spending many millions advertising are the Hero, Pre and Tour.

Verizon overhyping the Droid and not giving Eris not even a half hearted Peep was dumb IMO. Overpromising and under delivering is bad for brand equity. My non tech neighbor came over for dinner last night and he looked at my phone and said hey my Store manager at costco has one of those. He asked me how many times does that thing reboot on its own, that at their managers meeting his Boss' spontaneously rebooted at least 3 times. Yeah the Droid that does more than the iPhone, yeah it spontaneously reboots. Since getting the droid and hearing people say that they know people whose iphones lock up all the time i started asking people i know with iphones how many lockups they have had and so fat it has been at least 8 maybe 10 and they all said never. Yet my non tech neighbor happens to know about Droid reboots. NICE Verizon marketing.....

I only hope that the Droid price drops and Verizon BOGO is a ploy to meive them out because the real Droid phone is on the way for Christmas and not a fire sale :-)
 
bruceo said:
A uniform, consistent, reliable UI/environment with supporting hardware is what makes a good user experience. You make the winmo argument, which is tired to me since I was in the winmo environment for over a decade. Although there are actually a lot of things that winmo has that android lacks the UI of Iphone and now Android are burying Winmo and probably soon to be BB. IMO with iPhone being a 100% reference point the Droid hardware wise is 80% there UI and software functionality with Android native maybe 50% with sense and it's core improvements maybe 80%


SOT....Question.... I haven't done the research but knowing that the 3Gs and Droid supposedly have the same proc/GPU why is it that the 3Gs games and graphic intensive apps are incredible and all the android games look like they are ported from winmo?
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You're percentages are pretty skeptical -- it seemed even the most dubious of reviewers said it was comparible or "80%" of an iphone, and most said its a viable alternative to people who like more customization and engineer-ability.

That aside, it hasn't been a month yet since the droid, and all the media attention android has recieved. I'm sure there are many, like me, who have just got or are considering getting into android for the holidays, and when we do, we will look for things to improve/tweak. Now that the money is there, give developers time to catch up.

If I find the Alarm Clock sucks, you know what? I have some webdesign/design experience, enough to make a non-sloppy looking one. And my code will be more than sufficient to make it fully featured. So if for no other motivation, I will make one for myself, and release it on the app store, since I can do that at NO cost unlike on my current iPhone. I think there will be many like me.

And worst case, wait for a port of the passion ROM. Then you get the best of both ) android Now and sense later. Just looking at it like this -- if passion comes out months from now, how different will this new marketplace be by then? How many of those unique sense features will have acceptable equivalents out? Will I regret my decision? That's the choice I'm making now.

Your sliding keyboard issue worries me though.
 
You can't assume they'll just tell you. Its stupid to even ask them with an NDA in place. It was just like an hour ago twenty htc phones were leaked and the passion was one of them. So lol to that email
 
jmccarthy14 said:
You're percentages are pretty skeptical -- it seemed even the most dubious of reviewers said it was comparible or "80%" of an iphone, and most said its a viable alternative to people who like more customization and engineer-ability.

That aside, it hasn't been a month yet since the droid, and all the media attention android has recieved. I'm sure there are many, like me, who have just got or are considering getting into android for the holidays, and when we do, we will look for things to improve/tweak. Now that the money is there, give developers time to catch up.

If I find the Alarm Clock sucks, you know what? I have some webdesign/design experience, enough to make a non-sloppy looking one. And my code will be more than sufficient to make it fully featured. So if for no other motivation, I will make one for myself, and release it on the app store, since I can do that at NO cost unlike on my current iPhone. I think there will be many like me.

And worst case, wait for a port of the passion ROM. Then you get the best of both ) android Now and sense later. Just looking at it like this -- if passion comes out months from now, how different will this new marketplace be by then? How many of those unique sense features will have acceptable equivalents out? Will I regret my decision? That's the choice I'm making now.

Your sliding keyboard issue worries me though.
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That's my point. There is no reason you should ever have to think about how to get an alarm clock that doesnt suck. You should be thinking about new apps that enhance or make life easier. You're right 80% is dubious it probably should be far less and shows bias toward my general dislike for Apple.
 
bruceo said:
You're right 80% is dubious it probably should be far less and shows bias toward my general dislike for Apple.
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Read the first paragraph again bitte. Also you don't seem too 'bias toward your general dislike for apple,' most of those posts of complaints you asked me to look at all lauded the iPhone and its interface. I don't know. And I don't mind making a clock. Why wait indefinitely for someone else (HTC) to make a phone I want with one? Clocks are pretty simple anyway.

All my post was about was how I'm trying to weigh my options - is it worth waiting a couple months for a device that has some better apps but the same os? Or is there reasonable chance that solid equivalents will be released? Figured your response would be opinion on that. I already know you don't like droid, so didn't get much out of this. Just wondering if that's just your HTC 'bias' or if you are on to something, so posted asking for other opinyonz.

With rapidly improving GDE, beautiful widgets, and other replacement apps, is Sense UI (and no keyboard to break) worth not buying a droid for?
 
I think he would say: Snapdragon.

There's a lot of hub-bub about the processor, but Qualcomm stated only a 5% improvement compared to OMAP. Either way, it's an improvement. Sense UI ROM will be available once it works without a hitch with 2.x. But that's the current hurdle for this phone is Sense UI stability on OS2.x. But that's the beauty of Open platforms. There will be something better. Someone will come up with an alternative home interface. Other than the HTC phones, the Droid phones are a "blank canvas" so to speak and any UI ROM can be layered on top.
 
jmccarthy14 said:
Read the first paragraph again bitte. Also you don't seem too 'bias toward your general dislike for apple,' most of those posts of complaints you asked me to look at all lauded the iPhone and its interface. I don't know. And I don't mind making a clock. Why wait indefinitely for someone else (HTC) to make a phone I want with one? Clocks are pretty simple anyway.

All my post was about was how I'm trying to weigh my options - is it worth waiting a couple months for a device that has some better apps but the same os? Or is there reasonable chance that solid equivalents will be released? Figured your response would be opinion on that. I already know you don't like droid, so didn't get much out of this. Just wondering if that's just your HTC 'bias' or if you are on to something, so posted asking for other opinyonz.

With rapidly improving GDE, beautiful widgets, and other replacement apps, is Sense UI (and no keyboard to break) worth not buying a droid for?
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Again.. I make the iPhone comparisons because that is the device that they intentionally marketed saying that the droid exceeds.

As far as waiting, it is tough. The real strenghts IMO on the droid are:

Nice recording quality, although still some glitches
Great battery life esp for a 1300ma battery
Nice screen, but OS is still not near as smooth and responsive as it should be. Poor homescreen scrolling and photo thumbnail scrolling. Although very responsive scrolling in the browser yet lacking pinch to zoom.

Navigation is nice and search (when it doesnt error out 50% of the time) works really well. I noticed on Sense 1.5 when you search for a restaurant the 1.5 search brings you the google listing of the website for the restaurant whereas the 2.0 search brings you to the actual local listing with direct phone number, map and direction link. Although not unified on 1.5 you can just use google maps or where as a sufficient substitute, but it is nice to have the voice call, navigation and universal search functions all in the magnifying glass vs launching an app...

I have pretty much resigned myself to reluctantly turn in the droid and downgrade to the eris for 30 days hoping the upgraded HTC handset will be out. I doubt the 12/11 droid update will come on time and if it does I doubt it will fix half the issues that should never have existed in the first place if the Droid went through even the basics of real world testing.
 
Not sure if this is the right place for this...

Are the "Passion" photos faked? After looking at this article today and seeing how the photos appear to be faked...Another Motorola Device Spotted | Android Phone Fans I noticed that the Passion photos show the only HTC phone that I have seen that uses the motorola menu key rather than the actual word menu. The Droid uses the same key as the Passion but they are two different companies...I'm not an expert so let me know if I am completely wrong or not
 
I actually think it is the other way around. that motorola pic is a fake. you can see the shadow line under the buttons-taken from droid, motorola lettering is insanely large, and on the backside it is showing a samsung camera and writing with a fake motorola insignia. total fake. even the bottom of the screen is angled.
 
cdmta said:
I actually think it is the other way around. that motorola pic is a fake. you can see the shadow line under the buttons-taken from droid, motorola lettering is insanely large, and on the backside it is showing a samsung camera and writing with a fake motorola insignia. total fake. even the bottom of the screen is angled.
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I know thats what i said...

My question is why does an HTC phone have a button that only Motorola phones have?
 
cdmta said:
Could it be that verizon is trying to standardize the buttons on the droid line?
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MAYBE but it's not likely

More likely, it's that it's been doctored. Doesn't mean that the phone doesn't exist, Just means that the leaked photo's probably aren't it.
 
bruceo said:
I have pretty much resigned myself to reluctantly turn in the droid and downgrade to the eris for 30 days hoping the upgraded HTC handset will be out. I doubt the 12/11 droid update will come on time and if it does I doubt it will fix half the issues that should never have existed in the first place if the Droid went through even the basics of real world testing.
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Dude, you don't seem too reluctant the way you've been bashing the DROID. That being said, you must be the exception to the rule because you can only make one exchange within 30 days. If you downgrade to the Eris, unless you're buddies with the CEO of VZW, that's the phone that you're stuck with.
 
sooper_droid12 said:
Dude, you don't seem too reluctant the way you've been bashing the DROID. That being said, you must be the exception to the rule because you can only make one exchange within 30 days. If you downgrade to the Eris, unless you're buddies with the CEO of VZW, that's the phone that you're stuck with.
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Then ill return it and go back to my old handset for a few days rather than be stuck with a dud like the droid. Then the ota will be out and Ill have a better idea of what verizon and sprint will have in the next few months. Im a bit pissed with Verizon right now as they just reduced my corp discount from 22 to 8. They did it pretty sneakily, so anyone out there who has a corp discount better check it out. I almost get the feeling they have this big smartphone/plan ad push to lock people in and then pulling out their discounts on purpose.
 
bruceo said:
Then ill return it and go back to my old handset for a few days rather than be stuck with a dud like the droid. Then the ota will be out and Ill have a better idea of what verizon and sprint will have in the next few months. Im a bit pissed with Verizon right now as they just reduced my corp discount from 22 to 8. They did it pretty sneakily, so anyone out there who has a corp discount better check it out. I almost get the feeling they have this big smartphone/plan ad push to lock people in and then pulling out their discounts on purpose.
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You get funnier and funnier with every post! VZW the conspiracy company, out to nickel and dime you. Wake up, bro! That's EVERY wireless company trying to be profitable. Maybe you should sign up with Boost Mobile or Cricket.
 
sooper_droid12 said:
I know right?! :rolleyes: It's hard to believe anything he says. He flip-flops more than John Kerry at a debate.
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Yeah... Its a love hate thing. I love the potential but hate the execution and over promising. I would think others would be more demanding from a device/service that averages around $100/month in cost and holds you to a 2 year commitment or a $350ETF.
 
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