ICS: This is why Apple iPhone trumps Android.

[rhooke]

For some perspective:

1. The primary reason why Android is in the lead in terms of market share is because Google was a fast follower or copier, depending on who you ask. They knew that getting behind wasn't an option, especially since Apple was first to market. It helped that Schmidt "the mole" sat on Apple's board. Ever wondered why Google's tablet strategy has been relatively non-existent before the release of the Nexus 7? Could Jobs' decision to keep the iPad a secret from Schmidt made the difference?

2. Google is desperate to be in the same league as Apple & Microsoft. The problem is, it's essentially a one-trick pony - an ad peddler. The only way it can compete is to use monopolistic profits from search & offer its services for free, in the process attempting to kill the paid software model.

3. Google hates patents because it hinders innovation, yet its search algorithm is patented to the bones. The same way it calls Android open source, when in fact it's "open source as we see fit".

4. Do you think the Android licensees are happy with the current state of affairs? Of course not. They're spending so much on either litigating others or defending themselves. That's what happens when the software provider refuses to provide support because it thinks IPs are useless if they're owned by others. Do you honestly believe that if MS had a legitimate mobile OS back then that these OEMs would pick Android?

5. Android has to be litigated to level the playing field. Google has to learn that it's not above the law, & that it has to license the required technologies.

 

[jroc]

For some perspective:

1. The primary reason why Android is in the lead in terms of market share is because Google was a fast follower or copier, depending on who you ask. They knew that getting behind wasn't an option, especially since Apple was first to market. It helped that Schmidt "the mole" sat on Apple's board. Ever wondered why Google's tablet strategy has been relatively non-existent before the release of the Nexus 7? Could Jobs' decision to keep the iPad a secret from Schmidt made the difference?

2. Google is desperate to be in the same league as Apple & Microsoft. The problem is, it's essentially a one-trick pony - an ad peddler. The only way it can compete is to use monopolistic profits from search & offer its services for free, in the process attempting to kill the paid software model.

3. Google hates patents because it hinders innovation, yet its search algorithm is patented to the bones. The same way it calls Android open source, when in fact it's "open source as we see fit".

4. Do you think the Android licensees are happy with the current state of affairs? Of course not. They're spending so much on either litigating others or defending themselves. That's what happens when the software provider refuses to provide support because it thinks IPs are useless if they're owned by others. Do you honestly believe that if MS had a legitimate mobile OS back then that these OEMs would pick Android?

5. Android has to be litigated to level the playing field. Google has to learn that it's not above the law, & that it has to license the required technologies.

Some more perspective:

1. Google answered the iPhone faster than MS. MS wasnt fast enough to follow or copy Apple. MS shoulda threw out whatever thay had available of WP and just made it a work in progress. I have Android 2.0.1 on my Droid 1....and looking at Android then and now....MS....might... have been fine with whatever they had at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone#Development

2. Dont really have an opinion about it.

3. I dont really have an opinion, they did try to gift HTC patents to help fight Apple...

4. I have to quote this:

Do you honestly believe that if MS had a legitimate mobile OS back then that these OEMs would pick Android?

That alone says alot....lol. See also my response to #1.

5. Apple has been on the wrong side of a few patent cases in recent years. RIM just lost a case. Motorola is being sued by somebody. I think MS might have lost a case recently.

No one has a clean slate.

 

[rhooke]

Some more perspective:

1. Google answered the iPhone faster than MS. MS wasnt fast enough to follow or copy Apple. MS shoulda threw out whatever thay had available of WP and just made it a work in progress. I have Android 2.0.1 on my Droid 1....and looking at Android then and now....MS....might... have been fine with whatever they had at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone#Development

2. Dont really have an opinion about it.

3. I dont really have an opinion, they did try to gift HTC patents to help fight Apple...

4. I have to quote this:

That alone says alot....lol. See also my response to #1.

5. Apple has been on the wrong side of a few patent cases in recent years. RIM just lost a case. Motorola is being sued by somebody. I think MS might have lost a case recently.

No one has a clean slate.

Don't get me wrong, at this point, Android is already a good mobile OS. The problem is, I don't like it when people revere Google's creation as if it played by the rules. As much as people love to hate Apple, let's not forget that this company made mobile mainstream - palatable to the technology-averse folks. I'm not saying Apple invented the technologies they used, but apart from having the decency to license those they needed, they provided the blueprint on how to integrate these technologies into a successful device.

Just to answer your points:

1. Well, like I've said, if Google played by the rules, & without the mole's help, it couldn't have followed/copied that fast. This could have given MS some breathing room for sure.

3. Deemed illegal by the courts, & I'm quite sure HTC pressed Google to do so.

5. Yes, no one has a clear slate. But if you ask me, in the mobile space, Google has the dirtiest.

 

[EarlyMon]

Schmidt had zero access to iPhone design or planning details.

The meme that he was a mole has been debunked in spades repeatedly. Note the choice of the word debunked because there was no truth to that wonderful Apple comment.

Read up on who Andy Rubin is and his history if you want to know where Android came from.

And when it first launched, we weren't looking at the iPhone - we were all asking why they were moving in to the same space as OpenMoko.

PS - Schmidt played by the rules, so did Google.

Claims of iPhone copying are simply an untrue urban myth.

 

[Mexjoker]

Apple co founder likes android.

 

[rhooke]

Andy Rubin worked for Apple:

Android and Mr. Rubin's relevant background does not start, as HTC would like the Commission to believe, with his work at General Magic or Danger in the mid-1990s. In reality, as the evidence revealed at the hearing, Mr. Rubin began his career at Apple in the early 1990s and worked as a low-level engineer specifically reporting to the inventors of the '263 [realtime API] patent at the exact time their invention was being conceived and developed. [...] It is thus no wonder that the infringing Android platform used the claimed subsystem approach of the '263 patent that allows for flexibility of design and enables the platform to be "highly customizable and expandable" as HTC touts. [...] While Mr. Rubin's inspiration for the Android framework may not be directly relevant to the pending petitions for review, that HTC felt compelled to distort this history is illustrative of the liberties it takes in attacking the ALJ's [initial determination] and the substantial evidence supporting the ALJ's findings.

Source: FOSS Patents: Apple to ITC: Andy Rubin got inspiration for Android framework while working at Apple, hence infringes an Apple API patent

Regarding your claim that "...has been debunked in spades repeatedly."

Here's a piece from Forbes: You The Jury: Is Google's Schmidt Guilty Or Innocent Of Stealing From Apple? - Forbes

 

[sntaylor]

I really hope that a 4.0.4 rom will come along or maybe even Jellybean and would fix things.

The other big thing is that OTA needs to be turned back on cough cough Samsung.

Can't tell wether or not you flash custom roms.... If you do, there are 4.0.4 roms available, hell there is an alpha stage jelly bean ROM available!

Personally with stock ics on s2, with o2, I had no problems at all, also been fine with the majority of custom roms!

 

[TheParadox]

Let me put it like this :

iOS is like living in Pakistan and Android is like living in Us. :/

 

[Speed Daemon]

Let me put it like this :

iOS is like living in Pakistan and Android is like living in Us. :/

So what you're saying is that IOS users live in a world where monkey crotch is banned. Interesting.

 

[alextop30]

Can't tell wether or not you flash custom roms.... If you do, there are 4.0.4 roms available, hell there is an alpha stage jelly bean ROM available!

Personally with stock ics on s2, with o2, I had no problems at all, also been fine with the majority of custom roms!

On the contrary the only reason I am still with ICS is custom dark side rom. Yes I do love my android and I do take advantage of it. The point is for the t989 variant of galaxy s2 there is no 4.0.4 I am guessing other than cynogen (I don't actually know what version cm9 is) and no jellybean alpha for it yet (otherwise I would be enjoying that jelly!) anyway I just wanted to add the way I see things and I am not moving to the iphone because there are so many things that android does better that I am simply not willing to sacrifice. My programmer friend bought a new iphone and it just looks stupid to me the only thing I don't have is the program called face time but I do have Skype so there. Android has a few things that need ironing out like the update schedule of the operating system but anything other than that it is pretty much enough for me.

 

[Speed Daemon]

One thing that I think Apple does better than Google and Android is marketing.

You know, I think that people have been assuming that to be true for so long that most of us have stopped checking to see if it's still that way. Can you recall what Apple's latest ad campaign is? I sure can't. But I can remember Samsung's absolutely brilliant ad campaign for the SII! :hahaha:

The mistake you're making is comparing Apples to Googles when the actual comparison is between Apple and the Android phone manufacturers + service providers. Obviously the non-Apple half has quite a bit of width and breadth, so the skill at advertising varies widely. Not that it really matters, because all the work is done by ad agencies anyway. They are the ones with the skill.

To be fair to Google, they have been hard at work in establishing the little green Android Robot device (that's the technical term for it) as a widely recognized symbol. No, not as wide as Apple's logo, but then again Apple has had 35 whole years vs. 5 for Google. Considering that, Google has made excellent progress in brand recognition.

 

[dan330]

^^^ marketing ad.. by apple..

bunches and bunches on siri.. with big Hollywood celebs.. how it can be a funny companion and assistant.

 

[dan330]

Don't get me wrong, at this point, Android is already a good mobile OS. The problem is, I don't like it when people revere Google's creation as if it played by the rules. As much as people love to hate Apple, let's not forget that this company made mobile mainstream - palatable to the technology-averse folks. I'm not saying Apple invented the technologies they used, but apart from having the decency to license those they needed, they provided the blueprint on how to integrate these technologies into a successful device.

Just to answer your points:

1. Well, like I've said, if Google played by the rules, & without the mole's help, it couldn't have followed/copied that fast. This could have given MS some breathing room for sure.

3. Deemed illegal by the courts, & I'm quite sure HTC pressed Google to do so.

5. Yes, no one has a clear slate. But if you ask me, in the mobile space, Google has the dirtiest.

there were other smartphones before iphone and google!!

very true..everyone borrows ideas and expands on it. there were cell phones that had smart functions back in the 1990s.
and everyone has been adding and adding and expanding on it..

the problem is.. apple copies, patents the copy, then sues everyone including the originator.

 

[pastafarian]

Smartphones )and PDA's before that) existed way before the iPhone. The iPhone may have upped the game, but it wasn't "the originator" that everyone followed. It's every bit as derivative as every other device on the market, copying from those that came before it. It's a good product, but claims of it being original or first are the product of it's SJ reality distortion field blinded fanboi base and a large part of the tech "journalism" base that follow Apple marketing commands like sheep.

 

[EarlyMon]

Andy Rubin worked for Apple:



Source: FOSS Patents: Apple to ITC: Andy Rubin got inspiration for Android framework while working at Apple, hence infringes an Apple API patent

Regarding your claim that "...has been debunked in spades repeatedly."

Here's a piece from Forbes: You The Jury: Is Google's Schmidt Guilty Or Innocent Of Stealing From Apple? - Forbes

I won't even dignify that Forbes muckraking sensationalism with a comment. If that's what passes for objective evidence for you, I can't help.

The idea that Schmidt was a mole has been debunked, it wasn't so, it never happened.

Regarding Florian Mueller's comments, he also mis-reported what the judge presiding over the Oracle case actually thought, now didn't he?

And you're taking another sensationalist telling of the tale to establish that now, not only was Schmidt the mole, so was Andy Rubin. (And where did Andy work before all of that? And who got ideas from whom? Dig deeper.)

I can't help other than to suggest that I support your right to your opinions.

 

[Cobravision]

^If iOS apps, just worked, if iOS, just worked, if the iPhone, just worked.....iPhone troubleshooting sections would be very small.

So I never understand why the "just works" mantra keep coming up.

It's because they don't tell you. Android pops up dialog boxes that tell you an error has occurred. iOS doesn't bother. It just closes and makes you open it again. The trick is, the user isn't sure if it was the device or they hit something. Did you ever hit the home button on an iOS device? It dumps out of everything and scoots you back to the home screen. So maybe you hit the home button. Or maybe it crashed. Who knows?

I mean, it just works, right? Gotta be user error, right?

 

[Speed Daemon]

^^^ marketing ad.. by apple..

bunches and bunches on siri.. with big Hollywood celebs.. how it can be a funny companion and assistant.

Hey, I've seen those!

Proves my point. I've seen them often, and even interested in a couple (did this star murder their personal assistant is the usual question), I don't remember the Apple part at all. Apple fail.

 

[sntaylor]

On the contrary the only reason I am still with ICS is custom dark side rom. Yes I do love my android and I do take advantage of it. The point is for the t989 variant of galaxy s2 there is no 4.0.4 I am guessing other than cynogen (I don't actually know what version cm9 is) and no jellybean alpha for it yet (otherwise I would be enjoying that jelly!) anyway I just wanted to add the way I see things and I am not moving to the iphone because there are so many things that android does better that I am simply not willing to sacrifice. My programmer friend bought a new iphone and it just looks stupid to me the only thing I don't have is the program called face time but I do have Skype so there. Android has a few things that need ironing out like the update schedule of the operating system but anything other than that it is pretty much enough for me.

Apologies, I have an international version, and it has several 4.0.4 roms and like I said, an alpha jelly bean ROM...

Jelly BeanNexuS OTA port (AOSP Logcat Added) - xda-developers

 

[BrianJB]

I have been an android user since the summer of 2010 (htc evo 4g). And I have had many androids since then. I got an iphone 4s through a local trade a 4 months ago and it sat in its box for a month, I finally decided to try it out.

It's not "the greatest phone ever", but its not the worst either. iOS is much smoother running the android IMHO. And something that has pissed me off about what Android has been doing as of late is they have made it a real bitch to watch firstrowsports from your phone, it just seems like they have locked down more things. Then phones shipping with locked bootloaders and stuff like that has really turned me sour on android.

This iphone has so many cool things/apps you can use if you're jailbroken. Such as iAppcracker. But I do still love my android and I switch back and fourth often...I do think I may stick with the iphone 5 when it comes out (it sucks not having 4g speed).

But I still need to mess with an one x or the sg3 (or any other android phone that comes out between now and the ip5 release) before I would say for sure that I would change.


And as far as ICS, that has really pissed me off. At least when apple releases a new iOS it isn't like how it is for android, the rezound was supposed to be one of the first ICS phones....still nothing. And yes I know its verizons fault, but at the end of the day I still don't have an official ics on my phone. With apple the carriers dont get in the way of a new iOS, its just "ok here it is"

 

[Speed Daemon]

I won't even dignify that Forbes muckraking sensationalism with a comment.

As we've seen with that other forbes.com piece is "jack of all trades, master of none" in action. Journalists without a "beat" try (with varying levels of success) to become knowledgeable overnight about the story they're covering. Traders try (with virtually no success) to become knowledgeable overnight about the company that they're interested in gambling on. Journalists covering trading try hard, but can't manage to learn a darn thing, from what I've seen.

Malcolm Forbes was an icon of business journalism. The website bearing his last name seems to be relying exclusively on the Forbes name, and doesn't cut it as a journalistic entity IMO.

 

[Speed Daemon]

iOS is much smoother running the android IMHO.

Could you expound that for me please? I'd like to have a more complete Idea of what you're describing to compare it with something else. (Can't tell you first because I don't want to bias the answer.)

And something that has pissed me off about what Android has been doing as of late is they have made it a real bitch to watch firstrowsports from your phone, it just seems like they have locked down more things. Then phones shipping with locked bootloaders and stuff like that has really turned me sour on android.

Why would you blame Android for that? Android is an operating system, not a djinn that can think for itself and do mischief. Why don't you blame the phone makers and (mostly) the cellular companies for doing what they did?

And as far as ICS, that has really pissed me off.

Precisely what has you pissed off? Please expound.

And yes I know its verizons fault, but at the end of the day I still don't have an official ics on my phone. With apple the carriers dont get in the way of a new iOS, its just "ok here it is"

How is it Verizon's fault? What do you mean by that?

 

[jroc]

Good job mods whoever moved this from the RAZR section to The Lounge...

I KNEW when I last responded the thread shifted from ICS to Apple vs. Google....lol.

 

[Speed Daemon]

I KNEW when I last responded the thread shifted from ICS to Apple vs. Google....lol.

Was it ever about ICS? Nobody answered my question about just that.

 

[BrianJB]

Could you expound that for me please? I'd like to have a more complete Idea of what you're describing to compare it with something else. (Can't tell you first because I don't want to bias the answer.)


Why would you blame Android for that? Android is an operating system, not a djinn that can think for itself and do mischief. Why don't you blame the phone makers and (mostly) the cellular companies for doing what they did?


Precisely what has you pissed off? Please expound.


How is it Verizon's fault? What do you mean by that?

I think with everything I offered my opinion about that I expounded on why I felt that way afterwards, but I have a feeling you may have been irratated with my post and you may have skimmed over my reasoning so I will respond...


1. Why I think iOS is smoother than Android-

I am currently using an HTC Rezound (been on stock and rooted roms), I think iOS is smoother because I, for one use my internet browser alot for work related things and I find that too often there seems to be delays with a page loading, and it also seems like it will often select the wrong things on a page, so then I will have to go back and zoom in on what I wanted to select to begin with.

2. Why I am pissed about not being able to watch firstrowsports-

It has been well known that (one) of androids big advantage over the iphone is adobe flash, well since the ICS update they have embeded code into the browser to identify streaming of video within the browser so it will not load (not without rooting,finding a hacked version of adobe flash, then getting dolphin browser and using it to watch video on website)

With my iphone I load up skyfire and wait for it to load. <Much easier than everything I mentioned above.


3. Why has ICS pissed me off?-

I did answer that right afterwards with why, so I will combine this answer with question 4. ICS pissed me off because the rezound was touted as "one of the first phones to be upgradable to ICS" that has been 7 months ago. It is well known that verizon has held back the release of ICS, and since then there has been a new operating system released "Jelly Bean". As I said earlier, when apple releases an updated iOS it is for every iphone. Unlike android updates which go to select phones, while many are left without.


And just for me to add on, I am scared to buy another android phone because they drop in value quickly, and the support for them drops quickly. While iphones from 4 years ago can still get iOS updates. Android phones (top of the line ones at the time) from 3 years ago go for $50 now, iphones from then go for $150. Its not just because of the "fanbois" part of it is because they are still supported.



Anything else?

 

[MacFett]

the problem is.. apple copies, patents the copy, then sues everyone including the originator.

Or: