Interesting Camera discussion !! Carry on !!

[Shocky]

I've had my share of crappy cameras. A crappy camera takes a crappy picture, pretty scenery or not. If you want to excuse and dismiss good tech as simply magic, and dismiss photography in general, sure. By your logic, DSLR's are stupid, overpriced pieces of crap. I'm done with this discussion.

So a professional photographer doesn't get better results from a camera than the average user using auto settings? Really? Is that what your saying dibble?

 

[dibblebill]

No, I'm saying that your claim was originally that the camera is inherently inferior, according to PROFESSIONAL reviews, and that your next claim, per YOUR words, was that a professional photographer's opinion shouldn't be counted, because he is a PROFESSIONAL, and will somehow magically make the camera better. That was your claim.

 

[Shocky]

No, I'm saying that your claim was originally that the camera is inherently inferior, according to PROFESSIONAL reviews, and that your next claim, per YOUR words, was that a professional photographer's opinion shouldn't be counted, because he is a PROFESSIONAL, and will somehow magically make the camera better. That was your claim.

I never said that, what I said was the only phones he's reviewed are the HTC One and HTC One M8 and as a professional photographer he can get better results from the camera than the average user, or make it look good by getting the very best of of the hardware.

A good review should draw on comparisons to other competing devices and help the user decide what to purchase, but he doesn't appear to have reviewed or owned any other high end phones so it's impossible for him to do that.

I still think the HTC One M8 has a poor camera for a high end device, but that's my opinion and I stand by that statement. I don't really care if you agree with that or not.

 

[Hadron]

The last few posts are based on an assumption about which site Early was referring to. As many photography sites have started reviewing phone cameras in the last couple of years it's quite possible he was referring to one of the others. There are a lot to choose from, though as they are primarily camera sites you'll generally find they've not reviewed all of the phones you might want to compare.

I do agree that image processing in phones is typically poor, especially over-heavy noise reduction, sharpening and compression, though I can at least dial the sharpening down on my M7 (I've not met any that let you control the noise reduction, which they all set too high for my tastes). I've tried some of the mods from the xda thread linked and while I was able to get one to run it didn't produce raw files, just the preview jpg labelled as raw. As the mods were designed for other phones I'm likely wasting my time, but I would be interested to see what the sensor is really capable of without the manufacturer's dubious choices of processing (that's "dubious" as in "not what I'd have chosen" ).

 

[dibblebill]

I never said that, what I said was the only phones he's reviewed are the HTC One and HTC One M8 and as a professional photographer he can get better results from the camera than the average user, or make it look good by getting the very best of of the hardware.

A good review should draw on comparisons to other competing devices and help the user decide what to purchase, but he doesn't appear to have reviewed or owned any other high end phones so it's impossible for him to do that.

I still think the HTC One M8 has a poor camera for a high end device, but that's my opinion and I stand by that statement. I don't really care if you agree with that or not.

I cannot disagree with tha rephrasing

 

[Slug]

The last few posts are based on an assumption about which site Early was referring to. As many photography sites have started reviewing phone cameras in the last couple of years it's quite possible he was referring to one of the others

It's more than possible, it's highly likely.

Oddly, a technical, professional photography site specializing in DSLRs has started looking at cell phone cameras and they pull no punches. [..]

That's hardly a description of Colby Brown's blog.

 

[EarlyMon]

That's hardly a description of Colby Brown's blog.

I agree. And I never referred to him. Shocky did. Which puts it all besides the point anyway.

First he insisted that a phone blog counts as fact. Then insisted that a photographer's blog didn't. (Why go further.)

And then admitted that he was expressing an opinion.

Which was what I said about his remarks in the first place - opinions are not facts, and the Phone Arena does not have the power to transform opinions into facts.

The fact is that a number of M8 owners are very satisfied with its camera - for what it is, a phone camera.

As a firsthand user, I find it more than acceptable for quick snaps.

I also find that the HTC is easy to root, opening up another world of exciting camera software, and photography fun.

And finally, I recommend the Photo Editor app.

While everyone else on the Internet is arguing nonsense about picture quality, I use that app to remove the glaring wide angle distortion that exists on ALL cell phone cameras and introduces a level of obvious visual distortion that's orders of magnitude above what the click through and pay me crowd have to discuss.

Check out "Photo Editor"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.iudesk.android.photo.editor

 

[Shocky]

First he insisted that a phone blog counts as fact. Then insisted that a photographer's blog didn't. (Why go further.)

That's not true, I gave valid reasons for that, reasons your conveniently ignoring.

And then admitted that he was expressing an opinion.

Which was what I said about his remarks in the first place - opinions are not facts, and the Phone Arena does not have the power to transform opinions into facts.

Well you would have to be a very arrogant person to claim all your post content is fact, it should go without saying that a lot of what we post here is opinion.

But the difference is that I try to provide links to support my opinion where as you don't or can't, you can't disprove phoneareas's results so your only option is do dismiss and attempt to discredit them.

 

[EarlyMon]

Lol

I don't need links to support my opinion.

I don't care if Phone Arena had rated what I have top or bottom - none of the phones in the review are running the same software today that they were then.

It was a useful article when the phones came out (sort of), but it's out of date and meaningless now.

You're the one bickering about which one is Teh Internet Winnah.

I couldn't care less.

All I've said was true -

1. There isn't a best because people have different needs. If you don't want to fiddle with settings -

- and you want to do a lot of cropping, get a Samsung.

- and you want really vibrant pictures, get an LG.

- and you want to just be able to get great results uploading to social media, get the HTC.

2. They're all good cameras to a point but you can do better getting rooted and upgrading your phone's camera software.

3. Real people use photo editing and enhancing apps, and omg, they often go into the camera app and change their preferences. Imagine - changing an app preference, and not just using what came on the phone. It seems like a strange idea to some people. (Do any review sites do that? No - because reality does not count when you're picking The Internet Winnah.)

4. Reviews are pointless once software updates have occurred.

Those things are facts.

Here's an opinion - I've taken a LOT of good pictures with different phones made by Samsung (GS3), LG (G2), and HTC (various).

Here's an opinion - the M8 takes good pictures.

Here's another opinion - results count.







Here's another fact - I'm right. :rofl: :thrasher:

 

[Shocky]

"snip"

Users can view the samples in the comparison and come to their own conclusions, we will never agree so further discussion between us is pointless.

I'm out.

 

[EarlyMon]

Hadron, dibblebill - this thread will give an idea about the M8 sensor capabilities, I'm skipping you forward to the latest results.

http://androidforums.com/one-m8-all-things-root/854215-raw-camera.html#post6630688

Users can view the samples in the comparison that show old software results that generally were done in ways that people don't use the camera anyway, and I'm going to continue to maintain that means something and harp against the HTC camera every chance I get, we will never agree so further discussion between us is pointless.

ftfy

I'm out.

See you next time someone wants to discuss a phone and you need to derail a thread about how you hate the HTC camera. It's what you do.

And arguing with you about it is what I do.

 

[boyo1991]

Really?

Ah, well you can get administrator access to your Android phone, just like you can on your PC. We call that rooting. It is NOT the same as jailbreaking an iPhone, but many people compare the idea that way.

And just like on your PC, you get the option to install more and make a good thing better if you can run with admin privileges.

There are good enough camera apps that come with the phones, and some good choices in the Play Store to try.

But - with root (admin privilege) you can install much more comprehensive apps and get them to work at the best level with your phone.

And as it turns out, there are professional photography application developers that work on the pricy DSLRs who have found that they can contribute a lot to us - with root access.

The guy I know making the raw image camera, for example, has my M8 camera modified as I described and another app modified to work on several Samsungs, maybe one of your favorites.

I have a second root camera app by another guy, who started out perfecting the jpg compression problem on the LG, succeeded, applied the same mod to the M8 camera - and that gives me not only better detail but far better color. And I know there's always someone like him doing the same for Samsung.

Personally, I recommend it, but I admit it's not for everyone.

My problem with the review sites is that they give the impression that they have THE answer.

The truth is that the camera app is one of the first things improved by a manufacturer update and sometimes those comparisons are stale a month later.

And that's true in all the categories.

Which I think is why the OP said, I read the reviews, what do you owners think?

I think that they're both great phones and the OP is right to ask owners - because the reviews don't prove anything. They're stale.

I know people who traded in the M8 for battery issues early on. I got mine after the updates hit, look at my numbers. And lots of M8 owners are posting great results also.

So I don't believe that there can be just one answer.

If the OP needs waterproof, the Samsung is better. If they want loud, clear speakers, the M8 is better. If they want to rely on the camera, then it's important to know the intended use. HTC optimized for fewer pixels and more compression and that's ideal for social media. Samsung optimized for more flexibility in cropping.

But if you care a whole lot about pictures, you can get far, far better than what comes out of the box for either one.

If you don't care about pictures, then you don't. I know people who carry cameras and don't care about tiny cell phone cameras.

Any good ideas for non root?

Ik its silly of me not to root.. But I have my reasons lol

 

[EarlyMon]

Any good ideas for non root?

Ik its silly of me not to root.. But I have my reasons lol

If you have a compatible Snapdragon in your phone but not an M8, you can try the FreeDCam app, without root, for raw image files.

Follow the link above and then to the XDA thread.


If that doesn't work, try Camera 360 to get less jpeg compression, then Snapseed for color editing.

 

[boyo1991]

Camera 360 is pretty decent haha thx!