Interesting discovery about the soft keyboard

[rawness]

The Droid DOES have multitouch. Multitouch is simply the ability for the keyboard to process two simultaneous inputs. The Droid can, just not in the way that previous touchscreen keyboards have implemented it.

First, one must understand why multitouch is important (and it is important; it would be downright ridiculous for a new flagship touch screen smartphone to be released without it). If you are typing quickly, then you will, invariably, start striking a key before you have completed lifted your finger from the previous key. Without multitouch you'd end up skipping a bunch of letters. Even if you don't type fast now, if you are using the virtual keyboard, as you become more comfortable with it you WILL start typing faster, and this limit to how fast you could type would become extremely annoying without multitouch. With both the Droid and the iPhone (and most, if not all, new phones I think) you don't have to worry about that.

The iPhone and others (all?) implement multitouch in the same fashion as your ordinary keyboard. If you hold down one key and then start typing other keys (while keeping the first key pressed) the other keys will be inputted. This is the same as your laptop/desktop keyboard works, except your laptop/desktop keyboard will repeat the first keystroke over and over until another key is pressed (this would probably be an annoying feature on a touchscreen keyboard, so most don't implement it that way).

The Droid keyboard is an improvement on this. On the Droid keyboard, once the first key is pressed it is inputted and you can start pressing the next key (so both are now simultaneously pressed) and then release the first key and then the second key will be inputted. That makes it a multitouch keyboard. The improvement comes with this: The Droid designers realized that the only time multitouch is needed is for that small time interval (<1s) when key strokes overlap during the typing process. They decided to improve the functionality of the keyboard by making the long press mean something. If you long press certain letters (a, e, n, etc) you'll see options for special characters (accents and such). Thus you CAN'T prove multitouch by holding one letter for a long period of time and then pressing another. It's a little tricky, but you can illustrate Droid's multitouch capabilities by pressing one letter, then pressing another letter and releasing the first letter and watch the second letter appear. I'd recommend using two letters with long press meaning (such as a and n) so that you know if you held the first letter too long.

These long press options are quite convenient because they enable typing in different languages. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation iPhone took advantage of these capabilities. Of course, then, iPhone fan boys will be lauding them as the great innovators.

There is the issue of holding shift while typing, which the Droid does not employ. The Droid designers, again, took advantage of the long press. If you're going to type a long all caps string, rather than making you hold the shift key, you can long press it. It's actually easier, but it's different so it may take some people a while to get used to it.

 

[Newton1221]

They only register in sequence when you lift the first finger before lifting the second finger, and that is because it then senses where that other finger is, thinking that you just quickly moved your finger from the first spot to the second spot.

It's just not there.

I had two fingers on the keyboard at the same time and both keys registered. Thats multi touch, hate to break it to you, it might not be iphone multi touch but its multi touch.

Just to clear this up further, I have a tablet PC that does not support multi touch. If at any point you have more than one finger touching the screen the entire thing freaks out and does nothing properly. Same goes with the LG Versa that i just stopped using, two fingers on the screen means that nothing works.

The droid keyboard does support some multi touch functionality, no its not what we all hoped for but it is there, end of story in my opinion

 

[Vance]

No, the point is that it does not register the second key until the first key is released. That means that it is only registering the second key when the first key is no longer being pressed. The entire definition of multi-touch, from what I have gathered, is that it actually takes TWO inputs *at the same time* and does something with them based on them being pressed *at the same time*. In this case, it is only taking one input at a time, even though you have two keys pressed at the same time.

Now, I believe as you do that the implementation of the soft keyboard is actually better because of the way they did it. But, unless we change the definition of multi-touch, I don't think we can say it has it.

 

[rawness]

Hmm...

 

[rawness]

No, the point is that it does not register the second key until the first key is released. That means that it is only registering the second key when the first key is no longer being pressed. The entire definition of multi-touch, from what I have gathered, is that it actually takes TWO inputs *at the same time* and does something with them based on them being pressed *at the same time*. In this case, it is only taking one input at a time, even though you have two keys pressed at the same time.

It IS taking both inputs, it's just not doing anything with it until it is released. Hell, the first key stroke isn't inputted until it is released. That's handy just in case you strike the wrong key at first, if you hold it and drag to another key, the other key become highlighted (and larger) but NOTHING is inputted until the key is released. That's how the keyboard is designed.

 

[Newton1221]

It IS taking both inputs, it's just not doing anything with it until it is released. Hell, the first key stroke isn't inputted until it is released. That's handy just in case you strike the wrong key at first, if you hold it and drag to another key, the other key become highlighted (and larger) but NOTHING is inputted until the key is released. That's how the keyboard is designed.

exactly, just because you have to lift your finger off of the first key for the multi touch to work doesnt mean that its not multi touch, it IS multi touch, two fingers on the screen at one time and both keys register, that is multi touch at it simplist, plain and simple

 

[rawness]

In fact the iPhone is designed the same way in that regard.

iPhone vs DROID multitouch keyboard showdown (video)

Watch the first 15 seconds of the first video. He holds the E but nothing is inputted until he presses the n; after the n is pressed the E is inputted but the n is not inputted until he releases it.

 

[chris.h]

The Droid DOES have multitouch. Multitouch is simply the ability for the keyboard to process two simultaneous inputs.

Correct

The Droid can, just not in the way that previous touchscreen keyboards have implemented it.

First, one must understand why multitouch is important (and it is important; it would be downright ridiculous for a new flagship touch screen smartphone to be released without it). If you are typing quickly, then you will, invariably, start striking a key before you have completed lifted your finger from the previous key. Without multitouch you'd end up skipping a bunch of letters. Even if you don't type fast now, if you are using the virtual keyboard, as you become more comfortable with it you WILL start typing faster, and this limit to how fast you could type would become extremely annoying without multitouch. With both the Droid and the iPhone (and most, if not all, new phones I think) you don't have to worry about that.

The iPhone and others (all?) implement multitouch in the same fashion as your ordinary keyboard. If you hold down one key and then start typing other keys (while keeping the first key pressed) the other keys will be inputted. This is the same as your laptop/desktop keyboard works, except your laptop/desktop keyboard will repeat the first keystroke over and over until another key is pressed (this would probably be an annoying feature on a touchscreen keyboard, so most don't implement it that way).

That's multitouch being utilized.

The Droid keyboard is an improvement on this.

Not sure I'd call that an improvement...

On the Droid keyboard, once the first key is pressed it is inputted and you can start pressing the next key (so both are now simultaneously pressed) and then release the first key and then the second key will be inputted. That makes it a multitouch keyboard.

There's no proof of this. There is nothing showing that it's not only recognizing the first input and when you lift that finger just thinking that you quickly moved your first finger to a second location. You can see this on the portrait softkeyboard when you quickly type, say, a C-N sequence. You'll see the softkeyboard display the V and B before it finally inputs the N. Instead of it recognizing the two touches (which mulitouch will do if implemented) it just sees your finger as sliding from one point to the next (which singletouch will do).

The improvement comes with this: The Droid designers realized that the only time multitouch is needed is for that small time interval (<1s) when key strokes overlap during the typing process. They decided to improve the functionality of the keyboard by making the long press mean something. If you long press certain letters (a, e, n, etc) you'll see options for special characters (accents and such). Thus you CAN'T prove multitouch by holding one letter for a long period of time and then pressing another. It's a little tricky, but you can illustrate Droid's multitouch capabilities by pressing one letter, then pressing another letter and releasing the first letter and watch the second letter appear. I'd recommend using two letters with long press meaning (such as a and n) so that you know if you held the first letter too long.

When you do letters on different rows it's hard to see how the keyboard thinks your sliding your finger from one point to another. When it's on the same row and close together you'll see the letters in between pop up as if your finger had slid over them.

Also, that isn't showing that it's recognizing the two touches separately. It could (and is probably) just be recognizing one input at a time, same as any singletouch trackpad can do: Put one finger down, it recognizes it, put another finger down spaced away and nothing happens, lift the first finger and it sees where the second finger is and moves the pointer to that position. Some singletouch trackpads will freak out and jump between the two positions when you have two fingers down at the same time, that is dependent on how the drivers are set up for that particular trackpad.

These long press options are quite convenient because they enable typing in different languages. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation iPhone took advantage of these capabilities. Of course, then, iPhone fan boys will be lauding them as the great innovators.

I think this is how the Blackberry Storm1 functioned. I think it worked where when you long-touched the screen the other characters would pop up and then a "SurePress" would select it. I don't remember the specifics but it was something like that, I've tried to erase that horrible phone from my memory.

There is the issue of holding shift while typing, which the Droid does not employ. The Droid designers, again, took advantage of the long press. If you're going to type a long all caps string, rather than making you hold the shift key, you can long press it. It's actually easier, but it's different so it may take some people a while to get used to it.

Yeah, this one doesn't matter to me either way. Using multitouch for pressing the number key would be nice for typing single numbers rather than having to tap it on and off, but for longer number sequences it's definitely appreciated.

Maybe they can introduce a double tap for num/caps lock and then multitouch for when it's a short sequence. They already like the double tap for zoom, so why not on they keyboard

 

[Vance]

It IS taking both inputs, it's just not doing anything with it until it is released. Hell, the first key stroke isn't inputted until it is released. That's handy just in case you strike the wrong key at first, if you hold it and drag to another key, the other key become highlighted (and larger) but NOTHING is inputted until the key is released. That's how the keyboard is designed.

You know what, this raises an interesting point, and I would be interested to see what Chris thinks. First, I think you are wrong that it only registers once a key is released, since it will register as soon as you hit a second key, even if the first key is still held down. It will then register the second key once that one is released. It seems to require some secondary information (either a release of the key or the pressing of another key) before it will register the letter on the screen.

Which raises an important point. If I press and hold a key, it is taking an input, but not doing anything with it just yet. Then when I press another key, it takes that input and registers the first letter on the screen. So, the question is whether than can be considered taking two inputs at once (multi-touch) because it uses both inputs to register the first key, OR is it still not multi-touch, but simply holding one bit of information (key was pressed and has not been released) and combining it with another bit (second key was pressed) which occurs afterward.

I think it would be hard to argue the latter. If the keyboard is smart enough to have the two inputs working together like that, it is for all intents and purposes MT. It is simply a variety of MT that Motorola/Google have chosen to implement rather than the "hold the shift key down and type a bunch of other keys" variety.

And, remember, Motorola is stating that it is implementing MT in the soft keyboard. I am coming to wonder if their choices of HOW to implement it are what is causing the confusion.

 

[rawness]

Not sure I'd call that an improvement...


There's no proof of this. There is nothing showing that it's not only recognizing the first input and when you lift that finger just thinking that you quickly moved your first finger to a second location. You can see this on the portrait softkeyboard when you quickly type, say, a C-N sequence. You'll see the softkeyboard display the V and B before it finally inputs the N. Instead of it recognizing the two touches (which mulitouch will do if implemented) it just sees your finger as sliding from one point to the next (which singletouch will do).

It's actually quite easy to prove as long as you have feeling in your fingertips. Keep in mind that, in this case, we're just trying to prove multitouch so the goal should be to do a two key stroke as SLOWLY as possible without envoking the long press. If you have a Droid in hand, type the two keystroke A-N being sure to press the N is pressed before you release the A and then release the N. It's really hard to get the timing right for 3 keystrokes but two keystrokes is enough to prove multi-touch

And I would call it an improvement for this reason: If the keyboard is skipping keystrokes when people type, all they'd have to is adjust the "overlapping time interval." For instance, if they made that interval 5 seconds, then it would perform EXACTLY like the iPhone in normal typing sequences. Of course, no one wants to long press for 6 seconds to bring up the other characters. They would just have to decrease this interval to a point (say 200 ms) where it's longer than the average overlap, but still short enough to make long pressing viable. They may not have found the optimal interval, but that's something that can be refined easily in code.

And, remember, Motorola is stating that it is implementing MT in the soft keyboard. I am coming to wonder if their choices of HOW to implement it are what is causing the confusion.

I agree it's causing confusion (as evident by Endagadget's attempt in proving the lack of MT), but that's what innovation does. It changes how tests have to be done.

The bottom line is that if the Droid didn't have MT, we'd all know it within 5 minutes of using the virtual keyboard. There'd be no discussion. Endagadget should've known this before it started making false claims; it should've made a genuine effort to understand just what it was the Droid was doing instead of proclaiming that it didn't have MT.

 

[chris.h]

It's actually quite easy to prove as long as you have feeling in your fingertips. Keep in mind that, in this case, we're just trying to prove multitouch so the goal should be to do a two key stroke as SLOWLY as possible without envoking the long press. If you have a Droid in hand, type the two keystroke A-N being sure to press the N is pressed before you release the A and then release the N. It's really hard to get the timing right for 3 keystrokes but two keystrokes is enough to prove multi-touch

And I would call it an improvement for this reason: If the keyboard is skipping keystrokes when people type, all they'd have to is adjust the "overlapping time interval." For instance, if they made that interval 5 seconds, then it would perform EXACTLY like the iPhone in normal typing sequences. Of course, no one wants to long press for 6 seconds to bring up the other characters. They would just have to decrease this interval to a point (say 200 ms) where it's longer than the average overlap, but still short enough to make long pressing viable. They may not have found the optimal interval, but that's something that can be refined easily in code.

Multitouch isn't dependent on the quickly you're making the touches. If multitouch were being used, tapping two letters in sequence in the same row shouldn't make the letters in between pop up. If it were using multitouch it would only recognize touch point 1 and touch point 2, nothing in between should be popping up.

 

[Newton1221]

i think what this boils down to is the droid does not have the same multi touch as the iphone, hate to break it to all the iphone enthusiasts but the iphone didnt invent multi touch nor is it the only way it can be implemented, the droid has some form of multi touch, its not like the iphone but that doesnt mean that its not multi touch

 

[rawness]

Multitouch isn't dependent on the quickly you're making the touches. If multitouch were being used, tapping two letters in sequence in the same row shouldn't make the letters in between pop up. If it were using multitouch it would only recognize touch point 1 and touch point 2, nothing in between should be popping up.

I know it has nothing to do with speed; I only suggest that you do it slowly, because that is the only way that YOU would know for sure that both keys are being pressed at the same time. Thus proving multitouch.

I should point out (as someone did above) that it appears that the Droid does NOT support MT between letters that are really close together (like a-s). This would only be a problem with keys near the middle of the keyboard that you may want to strike with different fingers. That could be a drawback of the keyboard.

 

[chris.h]

i think what this boils down to is the droid does not have the same multi touch as the iphone, hate to break it to all the iphone enthusiasts but the iphone didnt invent multi touch nor is it the only way it can be implemented, the droid has some form of multi touch, its not like the iphone but that doesnt mean that its not multi touch

Nor does that mean that it's being implemented. My Jetta has a spot in the left rear tail light for a fog light. In the U.S. there is no wiring going to that location. In the E.U. its all set up. Just because something is there doesn't mean that it's actually being utilized. The same way that you can access multitouch via an API I can get an aftermarket kit and put the rear fog light back there (strange analogy, I know, but it's the best I can come up with while trying to pay attention in class).

I know it has nothing to do with speed; I only suggest that you do it slowly, because that is the only way that YOU would know for sure that both keys are being pressed at the same time. Thus proving multitouch.

I should point out (as someone did above) that it appears that the Droid does NOT support MT between letters that are really close together (like a-s). This would only be a problem with keys near the middle of the keyboard that you may want to strike with different fingers. That could be a drawback of the keyboard.

Saying that programmatically not supporting multitouch between letters that are close to each other is just a convenient argument. This is no more proof for multitouch being implemented that it is against multitouch being implemented. It's proof of nothing.

 

[rawness]

Saying that programmatically not supporting multitouch between letters that are close to each other is just a convenient argument. This is no more proof for multitouch being implemented that it is against multitouch being implemented. It's proof of nothing.

I don't understand what you're talking about.

If you do the a-n two stroke sequence you can prove categorically that both keys are simultaneously pressed and both keys get entered. Are you denying that fact?

 

[sohc sti]

When I first started using my droid I had trouble typing on the physical keyboard. Mainly it was because when I typed I would hit the letter and one next to it. My intended letter would usually come up first but both would register.

Oh, and I also hold ALT down when I'm typing long numbers.

 

[chris.h]

I don't understand what you're talking about.

If you do the a-n two stroke sequence you can prove categorically that both keys are simultaneously pressed and both keys get entered. Are you denying that fact?

I'm not denying that both keys get entered, I'm denying that multitouch is at play. It's just as likely that it's individually seeing the touches in a single touch fashion: sensing the first touch, knowing nothing about the second, then when you lift the first finger, saying, "Oh, hey there" to the second one.

But until we see the actual code for the keyboard or get a statement from Google (besides "its there but it's up to the OEMs to do with it what they want") or Motorola (saying "sure it's there, trust us ") we might as well be arguing creationism or intelligent design.

I mean, ultimately, if actual proof of multitouch being implemented is released, I'll believe it. There just isn't anything convincing. Everything that has been presented as "proof" so far can be done using a singletouch interface.

 

[ajm144k]

I'm not denying that both keys get entered, I'm denying that multitouch is at play. It's just as likely that it's individually seeing the touches in a single touch fashion: sensing the first touch, knowing nothing about the second, then when you lift the first finger, saying, "Oh, hey there" to the second one.

yes. exactly. Windows Mobile 6.x did this, and it doesn't support multi touch.

it seems that the phone is just recognizing the first press, and while this first press is down you could apply another (or multiple) press but this second press is only recognized IMMEDIATELY after the first press is released. then the phone thinks the "second" press is just an IMMEDIATE press after the first was released.

whether or not that can be considered multi touch is apparently subjective. I see multi touch as being able to register two or more simultaneous touches at the SAME time, i.e. pressing and holding shift while being able to then hit another key with the shift function applying to it.


but really, other than using 'shift + other keys' i dont really see any other advantage this kind of multi touch i described for a SIP (what else is there?). the way it functions now, whether it truly is multi touch or just immediate recognition of the next touch, seems to produce the same result.

 

[rawness]

I'm not denying that both keys get entered, I'm denying that multitouch is at play. It's just as likely that it's individually seeing the touches in a single touch fashion: sensing the first touch, knowing nothing about the second, then when you lift the first finger, saying, "Oh, hey there" to the second one.

But until we see the actual code for the keyboard or get a statement from Google (besides "its there but it's up to the OEMs to do with it what they want") or Motorola (saying "sure it's there, trust us ") we might as well be arguing creationism or intelligent design.

I mean, ultimately, if actual proof of multitouch being implemented is released, I'll believe it. There just isn't anything convincing. Everything that has been presented as "proof" so far can be done using a singletouch interface.

OK fair enough.

But when Android specifically states that the stock Android keyboard is multitouch, I tend to believe them.

Android 2.0 Platform Highlights | Android Developers

Unless the Droid isn't using the stock keyboard.

 

[CRPercodani]

I have to agree with chris. My Touch Pro could do the exact same thing, and it definitely did not have multi touch support.

 

[chris.h]

OK fair enough.

But when Android specifically states that the stock Android keyboard is multitouch, I tend to believe them.

But Google also said:

"The Android 2.0 framework includes support for multi-touch. As with other platform technologies, such as the text-to-speech engine, carriers and OEMs can choose to implement it."

So while it's there at a framework level, Motorola could have easily removed the multitouch implementation as a whole, requiring instead separate API calls from individual applications.

 

[Vance]

Here is one more argument FOR it having multi-touch, although I tend to agree with Chris on the overall point. When you press down one key, and hold it for a second it will not register it on the screen until you lift it up. All well and good.

But, that first key will also register on the screen if you press another key. Of course, if you lift up on the first, then the second will register as well, as we have been discussing, but that is not necessarily MT, it could just be two separate inputs in sequence. BUT the fact that hitting a second key while holding the first will cause the first to register on the screen SEEMS to indicate that it is taking TWO inputs at the same time to create an event.