Railroadmaster
Member
Well I guess Apple's os is so much better.
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Is There Real Difference Between Ease of Use on Android and iPhone
- Thread starter Railroadmaster
- Start date
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
History disagrees with you. Mac had the upper hand in the 80s, and early 90s. They took nearly the same approach back then. Windowa snubbed them off of the market withh a simply better business plan. Now here comes android,. And even winmo7 may be a competitor. Hell, even webos may have some legs. But I digress. Here are these platforms, and I feel the most action will be netween winmo7 and android. 5 years from now, I'm willing to bet apples market share will be cut in half in the smartphone segment. Rim, unless they come up with something spectacular soon, will be irrelevant. Winmo7 will probably dominat the business sector, being it has (or should) native support for the microsoft products people use every day, excel, word,exchange, and the like. Webos, who knows. They really need to make some solid hardware to make webos work. If hp put out a webos device with the specs from a galaxy s phone or better, id feel hands down webos would be the best option out there, that is, until we see what android 3.0 looks like. When 3.0 hits, I think its going to be a real game changer. With froyo or better speed, and ui enchancements to make it look nicer for all the noobs out there, it'll rock the scene no doubt. Then enter iPhone. Limited multitasking, locked down app store, and crap reception.
The first company that's going to suffer is RIM. I wouldn't be surprised if their market share was 10% by 2015. Then it will be a fight between iPhone, winmo7, and Android. Winmo7 will probably take the enterprise market by storm, given they execute properly. Business users generally could give a rats ass about apps or games. They need email, and messaging, productivity, and organization. And since winmo works well out of the box with PC, and PC programs, if winmo7 is marketed properly, they will win back the business segment they lost so many years ago. And let's face it, people are already getting tired of the iPhone. They are seeking something different. The iPhone trend has begun its slide. And before you say "x iphones sold since launch" listen to this.
1.) The majority of those iphones weren't new buyers.
2.) Since att allowed everyone to upgrade early for an iphone, it no doubt inflated the sales figures.
3.) People also bought iPhones to lock in their plan before att got rid of the unlimitied data plans.
If vzw said were are getting rid of unlimited data, and all original droid and droid eris buys can come get a droid inc or droid x early, they'd sell a ton of phones too.
People are already learning that these apps, which often cost money, are just stripped down versions of what you can do with a normal web browser, and the internet experience on android starting with 2.2 will hands down dominate iOs's poor iteration of it.
**** the apps, give me a real web experience while on the go, and make it speedy.
grainysand
Android Expert
Yes. This. The so-called apps are often just a wrapper over web services/web apps.
mrspeedmaster
Android Expert
If you are going to use historical anologies, you are in for a dissapointment. History back in the Desktop days did not have one thing you neglect and that is the iTune Store.
The whole foundation of my argument is based on the eco-system.
Furthermore, your argument is based on empirical inherintance. You assume the Mac loss markteshare in the 80s, they will lose again w/ phones. This type of empirical analysis is short-sighted and I'll show how the logic is flawed. This is how debates and court-room trials are lost.
They (Pocket PC) had this in 2005. They had everything you stated in quotes. Yet, Pocket PC is dead. It has nowhere the market share or revenues as the iPhone or even current Android. Window Mobile is dead compared to iOS. Why didn't it work then? And why do you assume it will work in 2011-2015? See why empirical reasoning is flawed?
By your own reasoning, pocket pc lost in the late 90s so they will lose again because history disagrees with your quote. See, I am using the same empirical logic you just made. See why it is flawed?
Using your train of thought, we can look back at history in the mobile-device genre. And history agrees with me. The eco-system, the content-delivery (be it music, books, movies,or software) is the new way of doing business.
Microsoft & Palm had a 10 year lead over iOS. 10 years. 10 years of Office integration (Pocket Word/Excel and the like). 10 years of corporate institutionalized use for their mobile devices,pdas, smartphones,and smartbooks.
MS was heavily entrenched in business use. Yet, they were dethroned in less than 2 years which is extremely remarkable. And the sole reason for death of Windows Mobile Classic is the new paradigm - the eco-system.
In less than 2 years, iOS killed Pocket PC and we already know what happen Palm.
Microsoft, HP, Toshiba had 10 years of selling convertible tablet pcs. Apple,in less than 2 months sold over 3 million iPads; prompting CEO Steve Ballmer to say something to the effect he didn't wish they sell as much (See Gizmodo/Engadget for quotes). Demand hasn't stopped. Analysts predict 10 million in tablet sales this year. Personally, I am very, very surprise of the iPad. I would never have thought they would sell that many but then again, the iPad cost as much as the original white 5GB iPod. We all know what that 5GB iPod did...
Unlike you, I am using historical context more relavant to smart phones/mobile devices (than your desktop computer example). My example is a bit more germane and within domain scope.
Now, looking at the future:
Microsoft isn't stupid (or at least I try to give them credit). They're trying to out-do the Apple model and I think they have a chance with the xbox tie in, locking down the hardware spec to prevent fragmentation.
They even omitted copy-n-paste and side-loading of apps because it boils down the experience.
In 2007-2008, we had the same thing we have now in 2010. Microsoft phones - HTC Touch HD, Samsung had better hardware than the iPhone. They had features not yet available on iPhone. Superior screens and faster processors.
Yet, they failed at one thing -- the user experience. Microsoft is trying to rectify their mistake with Pocket Pc and Windows Mobile. They at least can acknowledge iPhone's strengths and formidity.
Microsoft's Win7 Exec Belafornte is probably more attuned on market conditions than the both of us so MS is clearly taking a different approach.
I'll agree Android has traction. Win7 has potential. It has Zune and Xbox so it may knock Android out in terms of users who want an entertainment centric device. I actually think Win7 will leapfrog real quick just because of XBOX.
Yet,as we already know, Microsoft's superior monthly subscription based zune marketplace still failed and trailled behind the iTune store. Again, using historical reference.
We are at a juncture that is exciting for consumers. All the platforms will survive and offer consumer choices. Unlike you, I'm not ready to make predictions. The internet archives things and I don't want to be wrong 3-4 years down the line.
People panned the original 5GB white ipod. People panned the 2007 iPhone. People panned the 2010 iPad.
We shouldn't be making 2015 predictions because we already know what happen to all those Windows Mobile blogs and sites... Dead. Bye Bye Mobility.com. Bye Bye AximCentral....
Commander Taco's scathing pan of the original iPod on slashdot is still an major embarrassment for that site. I hope you weren't one of those HTC Touch Pro2 owners who predicted the death of Apple in 2009.
So in sum, this reply can easily be summarized by one thing --- you underestimate the power of the iTune store and the whole eco-system train of thought. It help killed Palm. It killed Windows Mobile classic. It help leapfrog the iPad into sales no predecessor tablet have ever achieved.
You are seriously misinform if you think the successful apps are 'web wrappers'. JooJoo or whatever the company name made the same mistake when he made that comment and panned the iPad.
You're just making assumptions. Have you done any market research to back up your claims. Have you looked at the tracking.
Uuugh, I guess you have no idea of which apps really sell and which don't. The apps that are just "web-launchers" with an icon are not the ones that move the platform. The $10-20 games in immersive 3D are hot. Photo apps that sell by the dozen sell. Apps that allow you to edit videos sell. Apps like geocaching sells. Apps like i-Am-sam which are karaoke apps are the top grossing apps. Apps that have add-on packs are not fetching web-pages.
People are buying everything that can't be done in a web-browser.
If you care to read the many recent Android articles about spam in the marketplace and the lack of developers making money in Android, you can guess the current state. All the article's I've read stem from this very site and sister site-Phandroid.
Android Developers are spamming the market so they can make advertising revenues. Many of them aren't making any money so we have duplicates and duplicates of really bad apps. Meanwhile, developers on the iTune store are making with the new iAd system. iOs customers, on average tend to spend more money on apps.
I would seriously study the revenue, # of downloads, the number of developers, and health of the respective eco-systems before I start making predictions on who will win or lose in 2015.
grainysand
Android Expert
Your increasingly lengthy walls of text are making me realize I really, really want an ignore button on these boards. How about that, admins?
EDIT: **** yes! I just realized there's an ignore list option in the user CP. No more scrolling through shitty, worthless walls of text! I can merely look at the poster's name, know that whatever is going to come after it is going to be bandwidth-wasting drivel, and just move on. Wonderful.
EDIT: **** yes! I just realized there's an ignore list option in the user CP. No more scrolling through shitty, worthless walls of text! I can merely look at the poster's name, know that whatever is going to come after it is going to be bandwidth-wasting drivel, and just move on. Wonderful.
Tre Lawrence
Android Expert
I, for one, enjoy the discourse. Both sides make compelling arguments.
Mrsppedmaster is allowed to speak his mind...
Mrsppedmaster is allowed to speak his mind...
Railroadmaster
Member
Look you don't realize that mobile devices at there core are small computers. Just that mobile are less powerful than desktop computers and usually have a finger/stylus input as apposed to the input of a mouse and courser and mobile devices usually run on arm/mips/xscale as apposed to x86/powerpc. Also something that is different there is no Microsoft or one company that controls the mobile market. History would like disagree with you example Microsoft Windows has one of the clunkiest and ugliest interfaces and yet it still controls over 90% of the market. Why did Windows succeed because it had cheaper computers, better hardware, generally cheaper, and adopted by multiple oems. Nokia phones for example are always heavily criticized for there user interface yet Nokia has a world wide market share of nearly 40% which is only decreasing because rival manufacturers can sell phone in markets where Nokia can't. Now lets look at Android it is outselling iPhones in the United States why because Android devices are available in, multiple shapes and sizes, multiple carriers, generally cheaper, and adoption by multiple oems. So history would disagree it not who has the best ecosystem and user experience but its who has the larger amount devices on the market. Windows Mobile failed because of lack of compelling devices usually all of the flagship devices were Android devices and not Windows Mobile. The only good Windows Mobile devices were the HTC Hd2 and the HTC Touch Pro 2 towards the platforms demise.
zerocool79346
Android Expert
Obviously no one is talking about a literal grandma, but it is good as a metaphor for people who buy their products and want them to work immediately out of the box and who aren't tech literate whatsoever.
Look, the #1 argument on these boards any time an iOS vs. Android thread is brought up is that Android is so much more customizable than iOS. Well great, for people like us that actually care to screw with our devices, but there are millions of people who couldn't give a **** less what their wallpaper is or even if they have one, or how neat that email widget is when they can just click the app icon and see the whole inbox and never have to change a single setting on the phone. That is why iOS sells like it does, and, IMO, why Apple shouldn't start changing to chase Android's market share and target audience. They should've just continued pumping out updated hardware and not tried to fix what wasn't broken, there are alot of 3Gs (not to mention 3G) users who are pissed because OS 4 really isn't compatible with their hardware and it shows.
ari-free
Android Expert
Most people use Windows. They are used to the customization you get there and android is a perfect fit for them. Android might not be a great fit for some iMac users but they are in the minority. It's not as if android requires you to use the command line like some linux distros but most people can adapt to something like Windows even though it isn't exactly polished and 'yummy.'
Apple's one big hit in user interface was multitouch but everyone has it now. The one thing they do have is attention to detail but that's not really a matter of technology. On the other hand, google has so many things such as Flash, voice input, file system, widgets, faster javascript, etc. If that new palm guy can polish up the UI, android will have the best of both worlds.
Apple's one big hit in user interface was multitouch but everyone has it now. The one thing they do have is attention to detail but that's not really a matter of technology. On the other hand, google has so many things such as Flash, voice input, file system, widgets, faster javascript, etc. If that new palm guy can polish up the UI, android will have the best of both worlds.
I bought a droid-x for one reason; AT&T has really bad service.
The iphone has a number of advantages:
- apps have minimum standardized menus and user settings.
- everything is tested by apple and has to pass their standards.
- itunes is a simple interface to manage content and apps on your phone.
- the itunes and app stores arte well organized ; versus the mess on
the market.
- phones don't come loaded with useless apps that can't be removed and google ads everywhere.
The iphone has a number of advantages:
- apps have minimum standardized menus and user settings.
- everything is tested by apple and has to pass their standards.
- itunes is a simple interface to manage content and apps on your phone.
- the itunes and app stores arte well organized ; versus the mess on
the market.
- phones don't come loaded with useless apps that can't be removed and google ads everywhere.
Railroadmaster
Member
Look people why do people say oh Android is too geeky how so. Look at Android it can be something hardcore nerds and geeks but Android also can be adopted by average and has been adopted by average consumers. Examples of geek devices would be Archos 5, Htc Evo 4g, Google Nexus One, and Droid x. Average consumer Androids would be Mytouch 3g Slide, Htc Droid Incredible, Htc desire, and Motorola Droid. Android can be morphed into something geeky for people who the latest and most powerful and for those who love to root there devices. For someone who wants a basic device that makes phones calls, sends text messages, installs some apps, and browses the web than Android is perfect. Also to those who say customization complicates things well it is often a selling point for many people including average consumers. Also an area where Android could succeed with average consumers is carriers you can choose your carrier with Android and that will convince many average people to adopt Android.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Agreed. Mr SpeedMaster is one of the few Apple fans who come here who actually use facts and varying degrees of logic & common sense to back his arguments/debates.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
I disagree, sort of. I had the mogul and the Touch Pro, they were both excellent WinMo devices as well. But yeah, my GRANDFATHER has the HD2, and it FLIES. I mean, it's silky smooth like butter. With the skyfire browser, he has flash compatibility, too.
ThreeDog
Well-Known Member
without quoting your whole post, i'd just like to say how refreshing it is to see some one use actual facts in there arguments rather than some of the other posts you see on these forums.
thank you i enjoyed reading your post.
mrspeedmaster
Android Expert
Thanks for the compliment but I think I am going to avoid appe/iphone vs google/android debates for a while.
I am immensely enjoying my Samsung Galaxy S right now. I can't say the same for my other Android devices. Especially for the price I got my Sammie for.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
I'm really glad to hear that. I'm hoping ALL the kinks get worked out by time I'm ready to pick up the EPIC 4G. Actually, it should have froyo 2.2 loaded as well. Have you experienced any of that App lag people have been talking about?
mrspeedmaster
Android Expert
I heard about the lag but no experience with it besides the bad GPS. This could be a batch issue. I run Launcher Pro on all my phones coz I like to use it in Landscape mode.
It is definitely faster than the EVO 4G (once had) and Incredible I currently have.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Why do you have so many phones
? I love LP as well. GPS seems to be an issue on Samsung Android devices, however. Odd though, my fiance's old ass Instinct's GPS works flawlessly, and locks really fast. It's a good thing I have a portable nav unit, so GPS on my phone isn't at the top of my priority list. I'm mainly looking for performance. Give me the speed!mrspeedmaster
Android Expert
Why do you have so many phones
I'm developing an Android app. I didn't want to get another phone but I got the Galaxy S at an unbelievable deal no-contract, no commitment.
Let just say it was a better deal than what K-Mart is offering on their Android device. With GSM, I can swap out the SIM and use it between my iPhone. So there is no added cost to me to use the device.
The other phones are work issued.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Hacker intercepts phone calls with homebuilt $1,500 IMSI catcher, claims GSM is beyond repair -- Engadget
I prefer not being ease dropped =P
computerpro3
Member
I'm a die hard android lover and Apple hater (ex windows mobile user) and I can't understand the hate towards mrspeedmaster. He is being extremely patient, logical, reasonable, and making very intelligent arguments. Further, he is 100% correct on many of his points.
Those of you attacking him are just as bad as the worst apple fanboy.
I am quite "techy", one might say. I've been building computers for a decade, have used both water and modified phase change cooling (built by chilly1 on xtremesystems back in the day) to get my CPU down to negative 60C, was into WinMo rom development, etc, etc, etc. Let me make this clear - I feel Android is the most exciting development in smartphone history. That being said, there are certain things about it that make me stare at my phone and say "How the hell can Google be so stupid".
Whether you like to admit it or not, major annoyances and weaknesses (lack of polish, some might say) exist in the Android operating system - weaknesses that simply should not exist given the resources of Google.
The phone is 100% totally useless for photographs (and I have the Incredible with Sense, it's even worse for vanilla). How the HELL can the phone not recognize folder hierarchy? I have 3000 photographs that I want to keep on my phone, but there IS NO WAY TO ORGANIZE THEM. There is no excuse for that in this day and age. Also, as someone else said, you have to freaking rename all of your photos if you wish to organize them within a folder. Totally unacceptable.
As far as music goes, the stock player (and the HTC sense player) are buggy with ID3 tags. IF you have a large classical collection such as myself that heavily relies on ID3 tags, you're screwed. The third party apps for editing them on the phone all suck, and there is no way to organize music by folder. Can you believe that? Once again, the freaking OS won't recognize subfolders and folder hierarchy. So for the ID3 tags that the phone reads wrong, it places the music in totally wrong folders and I have NO WAY to change that. Completely ridiculous and a major oversight. I hate Apple, but they never would have let that fly.
How about this - no subfolders for video either. I want to be able to load complete seasons of Family Guy, House, etc. Guess what? I can't. More accurately I can, but finding a particular episode is a total frigging crapshoot as they are all lumped into a giant video directory with my other thousand videos. How come I can't do something as basic as have separate "Family Guy" and "House" directories on my SIX HUNDRED DOLLAR PHONE? Even windows mobile was better than this for media consumption.
How about updating? I'm sick of getting "you have 32 updates available". IT takes me a half hour to update the damn apps, every other day. How come there is no "update all" button, or an option to automatically update ever night at 3AM?
That being said, these are all issues that will be fixed. Froyo will take care of some of it hopefully, but in time Android will reign supreme I believe.
But if you think it's as intuitive to use as Apple, you're dreaming (as much as it pains me to say that).
Those of you attacking him are just as bad as the worst apple fanboy.
I am quite "techy", one might say. I've been building computers for a decade, have used both water and modified phase change cooling (built by chilly1 on xtremesystems back in the day) to get my CPU down to negative 60C, was into WinMo rom development, etc, etc, etc. Let me make this clear - I feel Android is the most exciting development in smartphone history. That being said, there are certain things about it that make me stare at my phone and say "How the hell can Google be so stupid".
Whether you like to admit it or not, major annoyances and weaknesses (lack of polish, some might say) exist in the Android operating system - weaknesses that simply should not exist given the resources of Google.
The phone is 100% totally useless for photographs (and I have the Incredible with Sense, it's even worse for vanilla). How the HELL can the phone not recognize folder hierarchy? I have 3000 photographs that I want to keep on my phone, but there IS NO WAY TO ORGANIZE THEM. There is no excuse for that in this day and age. Also, as someone else said, you have to freaking rename all of your photos if you wish to organize them within a folder. Totally unacceptable.
As far as music goes, the stock player (and the HTC sense player) are buggy with ID3 tags. IF you have a large classical collection such as myself that heavily relies on ID3 tags, you're screwed. The third party apps for editing them on the phone all suck, and there is no way to organize music by folder. Can you believe that? Once again, the freaking OS won't recognize subfolders and folder hierarchy. So for the ID3 tags that the phone reads wrong, it places the music in totally wrong folders and I have NO WAY to change that. Completely ridiculous and a major oversight. I hate Apple, but they never would have let that fly.
How about this - no subfolders for video either. I want to be able to load complete seasons of Family Guy, House, etc. Guess what? I can't. More accurately I can, but finding a particular episode is a total frigging crapshoot as they are all lumped into a giant video directory with my other thousand videos. How come I can't do something as basic as have separate "Family Guy" and "House" directories on my SIX HUNDRED DOLLAR PHONE? Even windows mobile was better than this for media consumption.
How about updating? I'm sick of getting "you have 32 updates available". IT takes me a half hour to update the damn apps, every other day. How come there is no "update all" button, or an option to automatically update ever night at 3AM?
That being said, these are all issues that will be fixed. Froyo will take care of some of it hopefully, but in time Android will reign supreme I believe.
But if you think it's as intuitive to use as Apple, you're dreaming (as much as it pains me to say that).
ari-free
Android Expert
yup. That's what I want to see. If I saw more of that from apple fans, I would've considered the 3GS based on its own terms. I mean, I have no problem with xbox 360 or ps3 even though they are very closed.
But I don't think anything could convince me now after antennagate and the rejection of compiled Flash apps that were previously approved by the app store.
grainysand
Android Expert
Uh... huh? You can put media into different folders/sub-folders. They will then show up in the gallery as different, well, folders.
Froyo has an "automatic update" checkbox for each app. Simples.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Actually, with the new gallery, it does recognize folders for videos/pics.
AppBrain does all of that for your updating needs as well.