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Jellybean versus KitKat.

Why was ART available in the Nexus 5 then? Also, aren't all Nexus products developer models? Reference devices? Also, aren't all the many Developer options experimental? No harm in giving ART to the entire nexus line.

I can only hope Google doesn't strip out the good stuff from L on the 10.
 
except that select runtime is conveniently omitted from dev options on the Nexus 10, and 2012 Nexus 7, like all the other KitKat features. All I'm left with is Android 4.4.4 Jelly Bean. Believe me each OTA I get it's the first thing I look for. I got dev options but no way to select runtime.

Kinda funny how my old Galaxy S3 had transparent status bars since like 4.1 yet my Nexus 10 had them stripped out due to 'performance' issues. Does Google expect us to buy that? Especially since the S3 is ancient compared with a 10, and runs TouchWiz? Google is doing the same thing Apple does, not supporting their flagship line consistently. They used to but not anymore. I have a feeling I will get jipped also come Android L.
 
The experimental version of ART in 4.4 is there mainly for testing and isn't all that impressive from a performance standpoint, but it will eat up more of your storage! Not having it is not a big deal.

The SD issues are largely remedied with the way TouchWiz devices are setup (i.e. the File Manager is completely usable, compared to 3rd party file managers on devices that don't have a stock file manager, like HTC devices).

As for performance, my performance remained largely the same, maybe a bit better since updating to 4.4.2. Battery life is just as good as before I haven't done any tests to see if there was any variation. The phone still lasts all day on moderate to heavy usage (6-7 hours screen on time a day on and off WiFi/LTE).

I don't see a reason to not update, unless you're nitpicking.
 
phillyundead said:
The freedom Android gave us is now slowly fading. That was what made me use Android in the first place. I can't edit my music tags with JetAudio anymore either, or use identify song on Mixzing. I might be looking into a Windows Phone soon. Or cyannagenmod
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I tried a Windows phone. Hardly any good apps. Cyanogenmod is cool.
 
i have a Windows Phone, a Nokia Lumia 520 (currently the most popular/most common handset you'll see) that is currently wifi only (let the included GoPhone account expire)

it was decent enough, had more apps/games than i expected, but there are hardly any apps from Google. everything was Bing, Nokia Navigation, XBox Music, etc.

Not a valid replacement for Android. horrible camera, zero flash, unknown how long it's going to be supported as a platform, etc.

All i want is more consistent support across the Android line. Fragmenting the Nexus line is not the way to solve it. at least Samsung seems to add features on all their devices that get OTA updates. even if Google omits certain features from them as well.

The only valid reason for updating is if you get something you'll use, or want a change of some sort. with KitKat, aside the status bar icon color, i have not seen anything at all (Nexus) with exception to some of the nice things the S5 got added to TouchWiz, which i see as the only valid reason to even update my Samsung devices. at least Samsung provides where Google omits.

Still want ART though. badly. it made a noticeable difference on my old S3, albeit rooted and custom ROM though. i would like to for once get an OTA that does not require me to root to fix a mistake Google made. leaving out ART is a mistake. all the Dev options are hidden unless you know how to unhide them, and they're ALL experimental. there is simply zero logic in having so many experimental options there but not ART. it makes a hell of a difference, and was the closest Android came to being as fluid and micro-stutter free as an iOS device.

Point is, it's a lot of wasted storage used to update and get *nothing*. my only hope is that Android L won't jip all of us again.
 
nickdalzell said:
i have a Windows Phone, a Nokia Lumia 520 (currently the most popular/most common handset you'll see) that is currently wifi only (let the included GoPhone account expire)

it was decent enough, had more apps/games than i expected, but there are hardly any apps from Google. everything was Bing, Nokia Navigation, XBox Music, etc.

Not a valid replacement for Android. horrible camera, zero flash, unknown how long it's going to be supported as a platform, etc.

All i want is more consistent support across the Android line. Fragmenting the Nexus line is not the way to solve it. at least Samsung seems to add features on all their devices that get OTA updates. even if Google omits certain features from them as well.

The only valid reason for updating is if you get something you'll use, or want a change of some sort. with KitKat, aside the status bar icon color, i have not seen anything at all (Nexus) with exception to some of the nice things the S5 got added to TouchWiz, which i see as the only valid reason to even update my Samsung devices. at least Samsung provides where Google omits.

Still want ART though. badly. it made a noticeable difference on my old S3, albeit rooted and custom ROM though. i would like to for once get an OTA that does not require me to root to fix a mistake Google made. leaving out ART is a mistake. all the Dev options are hidden unless you know how to unhide them, and they're ALL experimental. there is simply zero logic in having so many experimental options there but not ART. it makes a hell of a difference, and was the closest Android came to being as fluid and micro-stutter free as an iOS device.

Point is, it's a lot of wasted storage used to update and get *nothing*. my only hope is that Android L won't jip all of us again.
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Get a better Windows Phone and then compare. Really, you're comparing a L520 to phones that are designed as flagships and not bottom-barrel entry level devices, which is what the L520 is.

It's the lowest end Windows Phone device out there, so the fact that it runs as well as it does is a testament to how kind of amazing that platform is.

Services don't matter. Don't buy WP8.1 if you depend on Google Services. I wouldn't even buy iOS if I was that dependent on Google Services, because it requires too many cut corners, work-arounds, and concessions. Apple and Microsoft make sure their services integrate flawlessly with their OSes, and don't really pay much mind to any others.

Mapping, Search, etc. all works fine. Cortana is as good as Google Now. Actually, much superior in a number of ways. SkyDrive, Office, OneNote work flawlessly. Nokia Camera is amazing compared to Google Camera. Full Offline Maps.

I don't think there are many app issues for the average user. Most people I know use built-in PIM apps, Office/PDF Viewers, Browser, and Social Networking and/or Chat/IM apps. The vast majority of those are already available for Windows Phone.

There are WP apps that are only available there. There are BB apps that are only available there. Same for iOS and Android. When you move platforms, you should always be doing it with the expectation that you may drop some apps, service integration, or functionality (you may gain in other areas, you may not). Those who run in fear from that realization, end up waiting too long and when the other platform actually gets to the point where it meets their "expectations" it is too late since they have become way too invested in the other ecosystem to consider a migration.

Xbox Music and Video is also superior to Google Play, and Microsoft does Podcasts (something Google continuously ignores). Google does do Books while Microsoft doesn't, though.

Which platform is best for you depends on what you, personally, expect from that platform and/or ecosystem.

I'm considering getting a Lumia Icon, because Microsoft's services unsurprisingly work so well with Windows 8.1, while Google's do not (half their stuff requires a Web Browser, some of it flat out requires Chrome (the new IE6, apparently) which I don't want to use).

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As for KK on the Note 3... Major Android updates always seem anti-climatic on Samsung devices (and HTC and LG as well) because OEMs have a huge lead on Google when it comes to innovating features on top of Android. Most of what Google adds to Stock Android is mostly features ripped from OEM skins. The new lock screen Notifications in Android L don't look much different than TouchWiz's Lock Screen notifications, for example.

Google Stories basically ripped off Samsung's Story Album App (which does the same thing for Pictures on your Device/SD Card taken by the camera).

Quick Toggles and Transparent Notification bar were already in OEM skins. FFC support for built by OEMs before Google Added it to Stock Android.

That's just the way things are.

And it's precicely why a lot of people find themselves in the conundrum that they're in: On one hand you like the fast updates on a Nexus device, but on the other hand you lose basically 2-3 OS Revision-worth of features by going from TouchWiz/Sense/LG UI/Sony UI to Stock Android.

Android L, I don't expect to change that.
 
To be honest Android L is essentially tacking on TouchWiz features I use and have enjoyed since the S3. The KitKat update on my Note 10.1 got S5's TouchWiz UI too. The notification shade ironically looks like a screenshot of the Android L especially the toggle style. White UI on the Magazine UX also looks similar. It wouldn't add anything that wasn't already there on a Samsung. However, assuming Google doesn't make the L features Nexus 5 exclusive like the good KitKat features, this might make my Nexus products useful again, seeing like they're closing the massive gap between stock and TouchWiz.

I bought my Nexus devices assuming I no longer needed to root and install unstable custom ROMs to get the latest Android or features. So I am letdown because Google couldn't support the latest in the lineup. Even devices still in their support period. If I have to root and do custom ROMs again what point is there?
 
Comparing Android L to TouchWiz, LG UI, or Sense in terms or Feature Set is like comparing iOS to TouchWiz (cause, IMO, iOS does a lot better than Stock Android in terms of out of the box features and service integration). The feature disparity is that huge.

They aren't even beginning to close the rift, especially when you realize that those OEMs are not standing still. They're still innovating in and improving their software.

A lot of people complain that Samsung has redundant apps, but they fail to realize that in most cases, those apps existed before Google really had anything to offer their users. Before S Voice came along, the best thing we had for Voice Actions on Android was Vlingo. Google Voice Actions were terrible. Samsung has S Finder, and it's 10x better than Google Search at on-device search (most people call this universal search). Google Stories came out over a year after Samsung Story Album, and I'm pretty sure ChatOn preceded Hangouts (and even got around to merging SMS/IM conversations faster than Google did)... Some of their media hubs existed before Google had Play Music/Videos/Newsstand. Their stock browsers are also much more capable than Google Chrome (and certainly perform better).

There is a reason why older HTC/Samsung (via Samsung Link) phones built in support for Auto Uploading Pictures to cloud Storage systems like Flickr, DropBox, or SkyDrive; and some (Motorola, Samsung) even had PC/Mobile apps to allow you to send/receive Texts from your PC when paired with your phone. Google didn't do it. They weren't paying enough attention to this area of the end-user experience, and the OEMs capitalized on it, and now they're crying because they OEMs don't want to simply scrap their investments to make room for them in certain areas (like wearables, where the Samsung's Tizen-based Smart Watches and S Health are simply better than Android Wear and the AWOL Google Fit at this point in time).

Google is just getting to where OEMs were... Years ago. Literally, HTC/LG/Samsung was doing most of this stuff in 2011. Their camera software is something I'd expect on a Low End (not even Mid-Range) android phone, not a flagship in 2013/14.

I honestly don't think Google will ever get to the point where they are even close to feature parity with OEMs as far as the out of box experience and capabilities are concerned on Android. While core hardware spec bumps are becoming "boring" the OEMs have moved onto other places to push things forward.

The reason why Google doesn't like this is because it makes them commodity on Android (their own platform). You can replace Google Services on a Samsung device much easier than you can replace Apple or Microsoft services on an iOS or Windows Phone device - even without ROOTing or Tinkering with your device. You just hook up an Outlook.com account, download a few apps, change a few defaults, and disable the Google Apps if you want. If their App Store has what you need, you may not even need a Google Account - at all - to get a great user experience on them.

Not as easy to do on Windows Phone or Android, or even some other Android OEM devices.
 
i meant that the whole Material Design looks are quite similar to TouchWiz's style in the Galaxy S5 and newer Pro-series tablets. the white layers, and toggles, icon theme looks just like screenshots in the L Dev Preview. it would appear Google is at least taking a lot of Samsung design cues and incorporating them into L. if anything, it's nice to see that the Google apps won't look so drastically different from the many Samsung built-ins i actually use. Samsung's updated TW apps do share a lot of Material Design cues, before Google came up with the idea. at least there will be some consistency.
 
nickdalzell said:
i meant that the whole Material Design looks are quite similar to TouchWiz's style in the Galaxy S5 and newer Pro-series tablets. the white layers, and toggles, icon theme looks just like screenshots in the L Dev Preview. it would appear Google is at least taking a lot of Samsung design cues and incorporating them into L. if anything, it's nice to see that the Google apps won't look so drastically different from the many Samsung built-ins i actually use. Samsung's updated TW apps do share a lot of Material Design cues, before Google came up with the idea. at least there will be some consistency.
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I mean Google could be feeling pressure from Samsung to do things more like them if they want Samsung to stay Android and not move to Tizen. Granted Tizen is a mess right now, but still, I bet there is some influence there.
 
I admit the only experience i've had with Tizen is on my new Gear 2 Smartwatch but the UX looks and feels exactly the same as the original Gear did. navigation is quite different and i find myself swiping down to go back and finding out that no longer does anything except make a nasty smudge on the screen. they made the sleep/wake key the 'back' key as well and that takes getting used to; i also find myself hitting the right button and realizing that no longer exists as well.

However i do prefer the Samsung UI and tend to buy all my devices (TV, smartphone, tablets) from them, with the exception being cheap tablets for times i am going to be in a gritty area (why take a flagship somewhere it will get ruined by nature when i got a $49 tablet to do the job?) and the Nexus tablets for a reference device/checking out what Google is doing/seeing what the new Android is like without rooting, etc.

but i do prefer TouchWiz. i don't use the launcher but i do like the general UI and the Samsung alternatives. a lot of the alternatives (messages, email, etc) offer far more customization than Google's or simply work better. i've found S-Voice to do far more than Google Now (it can enable silent mode, switch wifi and Bluetooth on/off, dim the screen, start playback of music from my preferred app of choice, etc) and i also have discovered S-Voice to be far more reliable in a sketchy area. times where Google Now simply responds with the Google-style vague 'can't reach Google at the moment' i have tried S-Voice to discover it works fine. Google's apps have connection issues despite a 4G signal, and that does not appear to be changing anytime soon, and their Hangouts app is very empty compared with Samsung's version.

I do however use Google Now where S-Voice doesn't seem nearly as efficient. i often use S-Voice to unlock my screen and launch an app or do a quick toggle by voice, which avoids the dirty screen marks from my fingers or S-Pen (just when i thought the pen would avoid that, now it's making marks on the screen). but Google Now triggers inside any app by voice with 'OK Google' and works well 50% of the time. but if there is one improvement i enjoy about S-Voice it's the voice engine it uses. the S-Voice 'female' is far higher quality and more pleasant to listen to than the blaring Google bot voice. if only i could change that i might find Now a bit more fun to use.

That being said, i am enjoying the screenshots of L, they appear to have given Flat Design a bit of a 3-D spin and it looks tons cleaner than iOS 7 or previous versions of Android and retains the depth i enjoyed in the past. in a way, it reminds me of the 'OS 1' used in the movie 'Her' (in the beginning where it's setting up, you see a 3-D stack of icons in the lower left of the screen in the movie, representing email, camera, etc, quite similar to the minimal stack of recent apps seen in the Dev Preview of L. the UX depicted in the movie is very clean and simple without looking as if it came from Lauren Faust as well.
 
Digital Controller said:
I mean Google could be feeling pressure from Samsung to do things more like them if they want Samsung to stay Android and not move to Tizen. Granted Tizen is a mess right now, but still, I bet there is some influence there.
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Tien isn't a mess, it just has not much of an App Ecosystem at the moment and we know how people generally like to over blow that issue. No use releasing the devices and generating a bad rep out the gate.

Microsoft has most of the big name apps and people are still talking as if they have none at all. First impressions are worth holding the platform back on the current market.
 
Rxpert83 said:
I'll bite - how so
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It is well documented that Android team since the G1 days have hated external storage. The G1 was supposed to have 4GB of storage and no sd card, but the Apple corporate buying team secured 90% of flash inventory for two years to satisfy the needs for the new and sales exploding iPhone.

This created a very high price for the remaining flash storage and why the initial devices had tiny storage and sd cards. We can truly thank Apple for Android having micro sd slot options.

Apparently (I will believe it when released) Android L allows card writes again, but I have yet to see verification of it in the betas that some are using. Android team have either done a profound 180 turn on their utter hate, or there is some catch to the apparent and sudden framework embrace of sd cards function.

We shall see.......... :) ;)
 
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