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Legal question about employment

jackroo

jackroo

Android Enthusiast
I had a question maybe some legal folks here can answer. I've Googled the heck out of it and wanted some additional insight.

My question is this: if you work for an employer who hires you based upon an agreed hourly wage, can that employer legally reduce your hourly wage without telling you first?

I've obviously seen "HECK NO!" but I also see "depends on what state you live in". Just wondering what the good Android folks here think. Thanks!
 
Unfortunately, it really does depend on what state you're in--and other factors, too. For example, did you sign an employment agreement of some sort? If so, whatever is spelled out in that contract should have to be honored.

The best source for an answer to your specific question is the labor board, or whatever it's called, in your state. Here in California it's the Labor & Workforce Development Agency.
 
Labor laws in Red states, especially the south USA have always tended to take the side of the employer. If you believe you've been treated unfairly you can try to contact your local EEOC who are often helpful even if it's not related to a discrimination issue.
 
So I'm going to ask that the red state blue state stuff stop here. It's more political than informative, and what has already been said exhausts the latter aspect. Feel free to start a topic in the PCA forum if you wish to discuss the red state blue state aspect, and leave this thread to the specifics of the OP's question.

Thanks :)
 
I would suspect that although they probably can reduce your wages, that they can't do it without telling you first. That would be basic contract law--your existing agreement with them would continue to exist until changed.
 
MoodyBlues said:
Unfortunately, it really does depend on what state you're in--and other factors, too. For example, did you sign an employment agreement of some sort? If so, whatever is spelled out in that contract should have to be honored.

The best source for an answer to your specific question is the labor board, or whatever it's called, in your state. Here in California it's the Labor & Workforce Development Agency.
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Thank you, Moody Blues. There wasn't any type of written contract. Just a verbal agreement. I looked up the official law in my state and saw it was illegal. I'm still wondering as to anything an employer may use to circumvent the particular law. I appreciate the other responses but like one other person said: I'm not down with the political red state/blue state stuff. This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. This is a civil issue and it hurts the particular person involved in each case regardless of where he or she is from and what political party they support. Thanks again guys!
 
jackroo said:
Thank you, Moody Blues. There wasn't any type of written contract. Just a verbal agreement. I looked up the official law in my state and saw it was illegal. I'm still wondering as to anything an employer may use to circumvent the particular law. I appreciate the other responses but like one other person said: I'm not down with the political red state/blue state stuff. This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. This is a civil issue and it hurts the particular person involved in each case regardless of where he or she is from and what political party they support. Thanks again guys!
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If you do not have a written contract or are not a member of a union ( not knowing the state you are from so it could be different but the majority of States fall into this category ) most likely they will say you are an "at will" employee. Which means they can reduce your hours, change your job description, duties..even fire you for no cause...pretty much anything they want outside of doing it because of discrimination or harassment and even so, the burden of proof would be on you.
 
But can they reduce wages without any type of notice? Let's say you assumed you were working for a certain hourly wage but suddenly you find according to your pay stub your new pay had already been decreased.
 
huh said:
If you do not have a written contract or are not a member of a union ( not knowing the state you are from so it could be different but the majority of States fall into this category ) most likely they will say you are an "at will" employee. Which means they can reduce your hours, change your job description, duties..even fire you for no cause...pretty much anything they want outside of doing it because of discrimination or harassment and even so, the burden of proof would be on you.
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Being "at will" and "right to work" are totally different concepts. Washington for example is an "at will" state, but not a "right to work" state. But even in Washington, you can have something more than "at will" without having a union contract.

None of that goes to changing the terms of employment without notice. I really doubt that can be done anywhere (although proof might be an issue because the employer could claim that told you that your pay was going to be reduced.)
 
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jackroo said:
But can they reduce wages without any type of notice? Let's say you assumed you were working for a certain hourly wage but suddenly you find according to your pay stub your new pay had already been decreased.
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I'm sorry I read your original post and thought you were talking about a reduction in hours. NO. They can not just reduce your pay without giving you notice first. They CAN however reduce your hours thereby reducing your pay if you have no written contract. If you were already receiving a paycheck with the original agreed upon wage and suddenly your new paycheck reflects the lower wage without any notice then you have a legal case. If however, you verbally agreed on an hourly wage and this is your first paycheck and you have no other proof of a different agreed upon wage(as in old pay stubs that reflect the higher wage)then I am afraid it is your word against theirs and you are SOL! If I were you I would go to HR or the person who hired you under the higher wage and politely bring it to their attention that there has been a mistake on your paycheck....see what they say...feel out the situation see what their agenda is first.........;)

and then go from there..

PS if you can, I'd try to email first ( before speaking in person) very politely and sincerely that you are confused because it was mutually agreed that you would be earning X when you were hired so there must be some sort of mistake...blah blah....
emails are a great way to get things in writing!! especially if they think you are just innocently conversing etc...they may take the bait:) however, it doesn't always go that way and a savvy person will not respond to your email inquiry but either PU the phone and call you to talk about it or want to speak to you in person...but it's worth a try:)
 
I hate to point this out but verbal agreements are very hard to uphold in court. That said I would think they have an obligation to inform you before reducing your wages, but we are back to a he said/they said battle.
 
My two piece: As already been stated, depends on state. A reduction of hours per week? No need. A reduction of hourly pay? I believe it must be stated in writing and notified, since, if you have a written agreement of pay, it is legally binding. Get it in writing every time, because verbal's hard to uphold.

WITHOUT getting into the politics of unions (I'll be MORE than happy to debate that in PCA, but not here), I live in a right to work state. Every employer I've worked for has notified me before ANY wage change, positive or negative, and even, in one case, given me notification that hours had to be cut a week in advance. But they weren't required by law to do the latter. I recommend you get anything you or your friend has in writing together, and peruse it. You'll need anything you can to win such a case. This would be true in a RTW or non-RTW state.
 
A pre-negotiated pay plan is legally binding, however as previously mentioned depends on the state. (Right to work and so forth.) But if there is no pay plan in place and cuts are across the board and they aren't dropping below federal minimal wage...you'd have a tough case.
 
Even in most, if not all, RtW states, they need to notify you. You don't get much say in it, but they are supposed to notify you, as long as the pay rate was in writing. It can be a memo that says "By the way, go **** yourself, you get $2 less per hour", but that's still notification.
 
It is a difficult case. There was no written contract; just a spoken one. It's unfortunate that since it's a small (but legal) wage and small reduction (but still a reduction) that no attorney will even consider looking into it. Seems like a lost cause
 
jackroo said:
It is a difficult case. There was no written contract; just a spoken one. It's unfortunate that since it's a small (but legal) wage and small reduction (but still a reduction) that no attorney will even consider looking into it. Seems like a lost cause
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Please don't quote me on this, but I don't think an attorney is necessary. If the wage reduction is indeed illegal in your state, then the labor board should be the entity who would/could deal with it. At the very least, contact them and see what they say.
 
jackroo said:
It is a difficult case. There was no written contract; just a spoken one. It's unfortunate that since it's a small (but legal) wage and small reduction (but still a reduction) that no attorney will even consider looking into it. Seems like a lost cause
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There are shady characters out there....sounds like you found one..,if you were already making X and it suddenly decreased...that is against the law and ..whack...and you have a leg to stand on..no matter how small...however, if you verbally agreed on something and this is your first paycheck and you have nothing else...you probably have no legal recourse..

.but you do have a life lesson:smokingsomb:
and most life lessons..suck it

for a reason:)
 
See but I do have all my electronic pay stubs including ones that show the decline in wage. I filed a formal case with the corporate headquarters yesterday and am waiting to hear back from them.
 
I also filed a complaint with DOL and my local state labor board. I appreciate the advice and suggestions. Thank you all!
 
huh said:
I'm sorry I read your original post and thought you were talking about a reduction in hours. NO. They can not just reduce your pay without giving you notice first. They CAN however reduce your hours thereby reducing your pay if you have no written contract. If you were already receiving a paycheck with the original agreed upon wage and suddenly your new paycheck reflects the lower wage without any notice then you have a legal case. If however, you verbally agreed on an hourly wage and this is your first paycheck and you have no other proof of a different agreed upon wage(as in old pay stubs that reflect the higher wage)then I am afraid it is your word against theirs and you are SOL! If I were you I would go to HR or the person who hired you under the higher wage and politely bring it to their attention that there has been a mistake on your paycheck....see what they say...feel out the situation see what their agenda is first.........;)

and then go from there..

PS if you can, I'd try to email first ( before speaking in person) very politely and sincerely that you are confused because it was mutually agreed that you would be earning X when you were hired so there must be some sort of mistake...blah blah....
emails are a great way to get things in writing!! especially if they think you are just innocently conversing etc...they may take the bait:) however, it doesn't always go that way and a savvy person will not respond to your email inquiry but either PU the phone and call you to talk about it or want to speak to you in person...but it's worth a try:)
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Thank you, Huh and the misunderstanding is okay. I did in fact immediately address this matter to the person who hired me (they don't correspond via email). The person didn't listen to me and refuses to communicate. I have solid proof of pay stubs that show how I went from the agreed wage and then when it was reduced. There is no "he said/she said" in that case. It's in plain sight that a reduction took place. I'm still waiting to hear back from corporate. I'm still hoping something can be settled.
 
jackroo said:
Thank you, Huh and the misunderstanding is okay. I did in fact immediately address this matter to the person who hired me (they don't correspond via email). The person didn't listen to me and refuses to communicate. I have solid proof of pay stubs that show how I went from the agreed wage and then when it was reduced. There is no "he said/she said" in that case. It's in plain sight that a reduction took place. I'm still waiting to hear back from corporate. I'm still hoping something can be settled.
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That's actually kind of good news?? :( just because you do have proof now..double check that it was indeed your wage that was lowered and not an increase in copay for benefits thereby reducing your net pay....It is illegal to reduce your wages without notice...and because you mentioned corporate..I assume this is not a mom and pop business... so ..if they just suddenly started reducing your salary or wage...you should have been informed in writing and you should have been asked to sign a document that you agree to the new terms of employment....if this is not just some HR mistake...you have a legal case...no matter what state you are in.. if you have to...write corporate an email and CC somebody when you do...anybody...it doesn't matter..

.if they don't respond

I would send a certified letter...I know it sounds like a pain and maybe too much hassle ..but it's really not...
it's very easy...

most of the time...they count on people just dropping it or whatever....but if they know you are not the average schmoe.....they will change their tune very quickly!

if you need help PM me...:)

oh wait!!! for the record...
I'm not a lawyer!....I only play one on TV:D
 
I agree with huh's comments, but I want to caution against doing anything that could get you fired. If you're in a 'fire at will' state, they can fire you at any time, for any or no reason, and that's that. So if you piss someone off, the next thing you know you might get your pink slip. :eek:

Handle this calmly and professionally, don't make any threatening or bullying gestures, and don't leave a paper trail that could come back to bite you. Wait and see what comes of it. If you end up unhappy with its resolution, then consider ramping up your efforts.
 
huh said:
That's actually kind of good news?? :( just because you do have proof now..double check that it was indeed your wage that was lowered and not an increase in copay for benefits thereby reducing your net pay....It is illegal to reduce your wages without notice...and because you mentioned corporate..I assume this is not a mom and pop business... so ..if they just suddenly started reducing your salary or wage...you should have been informed in writing and you should have been asked to sign a document that you agree to the new terms of employment....if this is not just some HR mistake...you have a legal case...no matter what state you are in.. if you have to...write corporate an email and CC somebody when you do...anybody...it doesn't matter..

.if they don't respond

I would send a certified letter...I know it sounds like a pain and maybe too much hassle ..but it's really not...
it's very easy...

most of the time...they count on people just dropping it or whatever....but if they know you are not the average schmoe.....they will change their tune very quickly!

if you need help PM me...:)

oh wait!!! for the record...
I'm not a lawyer!....I only play one on TV:D
Click to expand...


Thank you. I do have proof of an actual wage decrease and not any other type of reduction. It clearly went from $x.xx to $x.xx an hour. I feel emboldened to keep calm and pursue this in a professional way. Thank you for the support!
 
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