N. Korea anyone?

[Speed Daemon]

The South Korean government has entrusted the US with their country's safety. the US is happy to have an ally in the region.

Add to that the "minor detail" that the Korean War is still going on! It's the longest cease-fire in history, but technically it's still a hot war.

The problem is that the US no longer has the ability to keep the promises that we made to Korea and Japan. If a shooting war resumes, the best thing that the US can do is hang our heads in shame and retreat.

Now if South Korea, and maybe Japan wants us there, and is/are willing to foot the bill for our military presence, that might be a different situation. But no matter what, the US will be there to follow orders, not take control. Thanks to the Bush administration, the US is no longer able to be a "take control" world power. The sooner we face that reality, the better.

 

[andruoid]

I thought the Korean conflict in the 1950's was originally called a "Police action" not a war. Maybe that was from M*A*S*H ;-)

 

[SiempreTuna]

I thought the Korean conflict in the 1950's was originally called a "Police action" not a war. Maybe that was from M*A*S*H ;-)

Indeed. It was done under the flag of the UN .. albeit at the behest of the US (the Soviets having been absent - for reasons I forget - when the decision was made).

I don't believe the NORKS intend to start a war, they're just after some goodies again.

In the past, they've been given plenty of aide after they've kicked up a stink and been 'bribed' to back down. Crying wolf gets tougher over time so each time they try this, they need to raise the rhetoric to win the concessions.

The worry is that when this fails - which it looks like it will this time - they take the next step and actually do something. If that were to happen, I believe the US would inevitably get drawn in, however reluctantly.

As for asking Japan and SK to pay: historical precedent suggests that may not be such a great idea. Look at the kerfuffle it cause in the 1770s ..

 

[Gmash]

The US is 100% committed to protecting South Korea. If they ask for our help, they will get it, whatever it costs. To renege on that promise would be unthinkable. America's word would be worthless. That said, I don't think anything serious is going to happen. They might be crazy, but not suicidal.

 

[Speed Daemon]

The US is 100% committed to protecting South Korea. If they ask for our help, they will get it, whatever it costs. To renege on that promise would be unthinkable. America's word would be worthless. That said, I don't think anything serious is going to happen. They might be crazy, but not suicidal.

That's what I'd expect any politician to say on the record. But the cold hard truth is that the US government can't pull war materiel out of thin air. This is a fact that no amount of talking points can make go away.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee

 

[SiempreTuna]

That's what I'd expect any politician to say on the record. But the cold hard truth is that the US government can't pull war materiel out of thin air

I'm guessing the US military has quite a bit of kit in area already .. not sure how much of it's 50-odd years old, of course

"There's an old saying in Tennessee

 

[Speed Daemon]

I'm guessing...

...and you're guessing incorrectly. The fact of the matter is that over a decade of fighting a war of attrition on two fronts has depleted all reserves of materiel and personnel throughout the US military.

Although the DoD has reactivated old WWII-era battleships for active service from Vietnam through Gulf War I, the fact still remains that the US government is deep in debt. If the DoD can't afford to provide basic medical care to its existing veterans, it most certainly can't afford the time or expense of bringing stuff out of mothballs after 50 years!

Not entirely sure what threat the US faces that requires 1.4 million service people to be stationed in the homeland - those Canucks getting uppity again?

Let me refresh your memory:

The above was from the 1993 attack on the World Trade center in New York City.

Do these ring a bell? Nothing?

 

[ElasticNinja]

Yes, having a million soldiers wandering around cities will help.


Anyway, you are off your game if you think that North Korea is really a match for the US. It could have inflicted huge damage in the Nineties. Not so much now.

 

[SiempreTuna]

Do these ring a bell? Nothing?

Sure, they ring a bell .. just don't see how that's at all relevant to pulling the entire US military back to homeland

Unless you're advocating implementing some kind of martial law, of course. To put down that insurgency .. that's not happening

Sorry .. I'm just not getting it

 

[Gmash]

That's what I'd expect any politician to say on the record. But the cold hard truth is that the US government can't pull war materiel out of thin air. This is a fact that no amount of talking points can make go away.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee

 

[Speed Daemon]

Sure, they ring a bell .. just don't see how that's at all relevant to pulling the entire US military back to homeland

Unless you're advocating implementing some kind of martial law, of course. To put down that insurgency .. that's not happening

Sorry .. I'm just not getting it

It's pretty simple actually. The US does not have the cash wealth to be an imperial world-wide force right now. We're deep in debt! Pretending that things are still hunky dory on borrowed money will lead to financial collapse. I don't want that!

It looks like you believe that US troops must be belligerents all the time. Well that's simply not true. Nor is it true that the US must keep its military perpetually at wartime levels. The normal thing to do in peacetime has been to lay off military personnel, stop buying war materiel and shrink the size of our forces. Why shouldn't we do just that, now that the end of Gulf War II is finally in sight?

 

[Speed Daemon]

I don't think our military is in quite that dire of straits. After all, we do still spend more on defense than most of the rest of the world combined.

The problem with that is inflating a military on borrowed money is an artificial and unsustainable kludge. That's precisely how the former Soviet Union lost the Cold War. And taking away granny's heart medicine to keep on buying many tons of unnecessary war materiel is totally unacceptable!

I'm not saying that it's logistically impossible to force the American taxpayer to become poorer and poorer so that the US can have an insanely powerful military (and a 1% that's making money hand over fist from that spending). But I do think it's rather ironic that the excuse for making the US more like North Korea is to go to war with North Korea.

 

[SiempreTuna]

The problem with that is inflating a military on borrowed money is an artificial and unsustainable kludge. That's precisely how the former Soviet Union lost the Cold War. And taking away granny's heart medicine to keep on buying many tons of unnecessary war materiel is totally unacceptable!

Very true. It's also arguably one of the primary reasons the Romans, Dutch and Brits lost their empires. Bit of a theme throughout history, in fact ..

I'm not saying that it's logistically impossible to force the American taxpayer to become poorer and poorer so that the US can have an insanely powerful military (and a 1% that's making money hand over fist from that spending). But I do think it's rather ironic that the excuse for making the US more like North Korea is to go to war with North Korea.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, what's also a bit of an historical theme is a political class that is prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to keep that special place in international affairs: you have to remember, politicians are control freaks and controlling the world (or looking like you could) is the ultimate high for them.

 

[pbf98]

North Korean missile in upright firing position, official says - CNN.com

A little more pushing from NK, how far are they going to go?

 

[Mayhem]

This just in: A picture of the North Korean missile system has been leaked --

Pew pew!

 

[Speed Daemon]

Very true. It's also arguably one of the primary reasons the Romans, Dutch and Brits lost their empires. Bit of a theme throughout history, in fact ..

As the saying goes, those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it.

I may be fighting a losing battle as a member of the US electorate who is trying to do the Right Thing. I'd rather be remembered as one who fought the good fight and lost with honor, as opposed to being a coward who sat idly by, saying "I told you so." (I'm not pointing any fingers, BTW. Speaking about myself only.)

Absolutely. Unfortunately, what's also a bit of an historical theme is a political class that is prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to keep that special place in international affairs: you have to remember, politicians are control freaks and controlling the world (or looking like you could) is the ultimate high for them.

All the more reason to reign them in. We keep our military under the command of a civilian for very good reasons. So why shouldn't the civilian population speak up and control the politicians who reap huge profits from unnecessary military spending?

 

[pbf98]

John Kerry lands in South Korea amid North Korea's nuclear threats - CNN.com

So they aren't going to be a nuclear power just cause we said so?

South Korea is now at watchcon2 which is one step away from war, Japan is moving patriot missile interceptors into place in cities as a precaution. The NK missile is said to have a limited range of a little over 2500 miles which they say puts US bases in Guam and Japan in range of it.
It is said that monday will be a day that NK may show their military power as it is the anniversary of Kim Jong-un grandfathers birthday.

 

[Mayhem]

Kim Jong-what'shisface says nuclear war "unavoidable." First target? Japan.

 

[pbf98]

I do not see it being a very wise move for NK to strike anyone.. I believe China has been urging them not to as well. China is NKs main financial ally and one would think that they would listen to them, but if they do fire a missile directed at any of our allies, the outcome will not be good.

How can NK see it being a good idea to start all of this? They are a small country, and if they fire first I do not see it coming out in their favor at all.


What do you think the actions should be if they do infact launch a missile at Japan? Afterall we are talking about going up against
"the most powerful country" ... this guy clearly has too much power going to his head..
if they do I hope the appropriate action will be taken to eliminate future threat

 

[Mayhem]

The dude's obviously off his rocker if he thinks he'd be able to get away with it. Even if he manages to start a war and China continues to back him, it'd be a bloodbath over there.

Let's hope that China steps in and gets him to realize he's making a huge mistake.

 

[ElasticNinja]

So they aren't going to be a nuclear power just cause we said so?

Hopefully.

 

[Bob Maxey]

If they target the U.S or their bases then it's game over for North Korea, how messy it gets will depend on how China reacts to the situation.

I don't think N. Korea will attack as they have too much to lose, but who knows what they're thinking.

I always hear about how crazy some leader must be to attack the United States. For the most part, it is likely true. A big fail on NK's part if they attack.

That said, perhaps some leader honestly believe he will win or perhaps he is just plain nuts and all hell breaks out.

I have confidence in our fighting men and women to protect us. Obama is the wild card. What will he do if something happens?

 

[copestag]

I think youre being a little too harsh on Obama

after all....... if NK does fire its missles.... it may be possible to peacefully negotiate a person back to life

maybe we cold put some weak sanctions on the after life and theyll give the souls back

 

[Speed Daemon]

So they aren't going to be a nuclear power just cause we said so?

Are you (as in "we") a member nation of the UN? If so, then the answer is yes, the UN is not going to grant North Korea any of the privileges of membership as an official "nuclear power" despite the fact that they have in fact created nuclear explosions.

 

[Speed Daemon]

after all....... if NK does fire its missles.... it may be possible to peacefully negotiate a person back to life

Not sure what that means, but one important thing to remember is that the Cold War is over and North Korea has yet to actually hit anything with its missiles. It's reasonable to believe that the US will not push the MAD button if a rocket launch is detected, like the plan was back in the Cold War days. And in the unlikely case that they launch AND hit something, it's reasonable to believe that the reaction will be in proportion to the insult to sovereign territory and/or damage done (if any).

The best possible outcome would be that they try to launch a missile and, like all others before, it falls harmlessly into the ocean or blows up in mid-air or on the launching pad. As is customary, North Korean television will say it's a great success, and the Sea of Japan will have a little more sub-space junk at its bottom.