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New Pope thread

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ElasticNinja said:
Mother Teresa actually had organisations behind her with an awful lot of money. But she would rather let people suffer for religious reasons I guess. Better than them dying on the street, but that money could have been used.

Also I don't understand your point about the poor not being in a position to help the poor. That is a given, even though it is expected in the US (what with all your rhetoric about families and friends helping each other out).
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There's a big difference between people CHOOSING to help the poor and using the force of government to take people's money and give it to the poor.
 
A.Nonymous said:
There's a big difference between people CHOOSING to help the poor and using the force of government to take people's money and give it to the poor.
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Not really, social contract and all that. One doesn't much tax until the reach an age where they can decide for themselves if a place is for them I guess.

I'm sure the Jesus one hears of would be all for the welfare state.
 
ElasticNinja said:
I'm sure the Jesus one hears of would be all for the welfare state.
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I don't know. I have a difficult time believing Jesus would say, "Everyone should give to the poor. If someone doesn't want to give willingly we should use force to take it from them."
 
A.Nonymous said:
I don't know. I have a difficult time believing Jesus would say, "Everyone should give to the poor. If someone doesn't want to give willingly we should use force to take it from them."
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Well people have a vote, and a right to emigrate, so it isn't quite as dystopian as you might paint it.
 
ElasticNinja said:
Well people have a vote, and a right to emigrate, so it isn't quite as dystopian as you might paint it.
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No, it is. If you are advocating taxing the rich to fund the poor, then you are advocating using the government to forceably take money from people who have earned it and give it to people who have not. As I said, I find it difficult to believe that Jesus would advocate taking people's money by force if they didn't want to give it up.
 
A.Nonymous said:
No, it is. If you are advocating taxing the rich to fund the poor, then you are advocating using the government to forceably take money from people who have earned it and give it to people who have not. As I said, I find it difficult to believe that Jesus would advocate taking people's money by force if they didn't want to give it up.
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In another sense it is taxing the well off to keep the well off well off by ensuring the poor are productive and educated. And don't revolt, I guess.
 
Speed Daemon said:
Looks like this Papal CEO will at least be fiscally responsible. Reports say that after he became Pope, he took the bus back to wherever he was staying before, instead of moving right into the palace.

A CEO who travels coach; I like that!
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I wonder if he had his bodyguard with him.
A.Nonymous said:
He was born and raised and has worked his life in Argentina though hasn't he? My parents are Chinese, but I was born and raised here in the US. Ethnically I might be Chinese, but culturally I am American.
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Precisely. Also, does anyone know how his parents got from Italy to Argentina, or why?
 
ItnStln511 said:
I wonder if he had his bodyguard with him.
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He had the whole college of cardinals with him. I'm sure he was well protected.

Precisely. Also, does anyone know how his parents got from Italy to Argentina, or why?
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His dad was born in Italy and his mom in Buenos Aires. I'm going to guess his dad ended up there because of his mom.
 
I believe his mother is Italian also.

One of the more interesting sets of reactions I've seen among Latinos in social media is to talk about whether Pope Francis is a Latino at all. Born and raised in Argentina, of Italian immigrant parents, the former Cardinal Bergoglio doesn't come from a family with deep roots in the Hemisphere. He speaks Italian, the mother tongue of his parents, as the jubilant crowd in St. Peter's Square heard on Wednesday, but with a charming Spanish accent. Like the United States, Argentina is very heavily a nation of immigrants.
 
saptech said:
I believe his mother is Italian also.

One of the more interesting sets of reactions I've seen among Latinos in social media is to talk about whether Pope Francis is a Latino at all. Born and raised in Argentina, of Italian immigrant parents, the former Cardinal Bergoglio doesn't come from a family with deep roots in the Hemisphere. He speaks Italian, the mother tongue of his parents, as the jubilant crowd in St. Peter's Square heard on Wednesday, but with a charming Spanish accent. Like the United States, Argentina is very heavily a nation of immigrants.
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His mother is ethnically Italian, but was born in Buenos Aires.
 
A.Nonymous said:
I find it difficult to believe that Jesus would advocate taking people's money by force if they didn't want to give it up.
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I believe his official view was that he didn't give a monkeys about governments taking money (etc) from their people: "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's".

Re Argentinians and Italians: I believe there are quite a lot of Italian emigres in Argentina. I'm reliably informed that the Argentinian accent even has a vaguely Italian - and very charming - lilt when they speak Spanish.
 
SiempreTuna said:
I believe his official view was that he didn't give a monkeys about governments taking money (etc) from their people: "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's".
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There's a difference between levying taxes and levying taxes for the purpose of taking from one who has earned and giving it to one who has not.

Re Argentinians and Italians: I believe there are quite a lot of Italian emigres in Argentina. I'm reliably informed that the Argentinian accent even has a vaguely Italian - and very charming - lilt when they speak Spanish.
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I don't know anything about Argentina or it's culture so I have no idea how integrated and assimilated people get after living there. I know here in the US that after 2-3 generations people are essentially Americans and have lost all or most of their original culture. I think I read somewhere that most 3rd gen immigrants kids can't even speak or understand their grandparents native language. I don't know if that's the case in Argentina or not. It may be the guy is still culturally an Italian despite being raised in Argentina.
 
A.Nonymous said:
There's a difference between levying taxes and levying taxes for the purpose of taking from one who has earned and giving it to one who has not
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You think Caesar earned his money?

Err .. how?

And the bulk of Caesar's tax went back to Rome - it wasn't even spent on the people from whom it was raised.
 
A.Nonymous said:
I don't know. I have a difficult time believing Jesus would say, "Everyone should give to the poor. If someone doesn't want to give willingly we should use force to take it from them."
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Jesus would want us to be the best we can possibly be. Act responsibly and help when we can.

The rich often give far more than most of the idiots bitching about the rich and their habits and what the rich should do.

Wealthy people do far more than their detractors often suggest.
 
Well, the wealthy tend to give more to charities and non-profits and the religious give more per capita than the non-religious so I think Jesus' teachings on giving are being followed for the most part.
 
It's not a simple as the rich give more than the poor.

An individual rich person may donate more than an individual poor person, but research suggest that, like that poor woman in the synagog JC lauded, lower-income people give a larger proportion of their discretionary income than the rich:

It turns out that lower-income people tend to donate a much bigger share of their discretionary incomes than wealthier people do. And rich people are more generous when they live among those who aren't so rich.
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how do we know you are both wrong?

because youve spent countless posts telling us how the poor have NO discretionary income....... how could they possibly be giving any of it to anyone

maybe if theyd stop giving away their money they wouldnt be poor..... and I could stop supporting them
 
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