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Next 4 Years Give or Take

Your arguments are automatically suspect when you reveal your true intentions. In a way you contradict yourself. This is the whole greedy, every man for himself republican mindset. Workers are a necessary evil in your attempts to benefit yourselves. Republicans wish they didn't have to pay anyone a dime, and if they could get away with not doing so, they would. Your trickle down economics does NOT work, as have been proven by history time and again. But the truth is republicans don't care about helping others. The more workers they can eliminate from their payroll the better. This is why outsourcing is so popular amongst them. You say the economy is so terrible in one sentence, then say there are more millionaires and billionaires than ever in the next and preach what a good thing that is. Sure it's great, FOR THEM AND THEM ONLY. How is rich people getting richer helping the economy? Oh that's right, its not. Because the economy is on the brink of collapse, according to you.

I think we're doing much better than we were under Bush, and I could state dozens of reasons. But I won't because those are called facts, and facts are something Republicans don't like. So they just deny them and spew nonsense they heard from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck...

I will say one thing and one thing only. Fact: expecting CEOs to pay the same amount of their income in taxes as their workers pay is NOT putting a limit on how rich they can get.
 
lightsleeper23 said:
Your arguments are automatically suspect when you reveal your true intentions. In a way you contradict yourself. This is the whole greedy, every man for himself republican mindset. Workers are a necessary evil in your attempts to benefit yourselves. Republicans wish they didn't have to pay anyone a dime, and if they could get away with not doing so, they would. Your trickle down economics does NOT work, as have been proven by history time and again. But the truth is republicans don't care about helping others. The more workers they can eliminate from their payroll the better. This is why outsourcing is so popular amongst them. You say the economy is so terrible in one sentence, then say there are more millionaires and billionaires than ever in the next and preach what a good thing that is. Sure it's great, FOR THEM AND THEM ONLY. How is rich people getting richer helping the economy? Oh that's right, its not. Because the economy is on the brink of collapse, according to you.

I think we're doing much better than we were under Bush, and I could state dozens of reasons. But I won't because those are called facts, and facts are something Republicans don't like. So they just deny them and spew nonsense they heard from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck...

I will say one thing and one thing only. Fact: expecting CEOs to pay the same amount of their income in taxes as their workers pay is NOT putting a limit on how rich they can get.
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Please explain how things are better now?? More unemployed, more people in poverty, more people on food stamps, more illegal aliens, a more divided country, skyrocketing deficit with zero signs of slowing down, and rising healthcare costs are just a few of Obama's negative effects. Can you name a single positive (for the country, not an individual who gets more government handouts)????

I wish the rich paid the same PERCENTAGE of income tax as everyone else. As it stands right now that is not the case. The more money you make the bigger percentage of your income goes to the government to be redistributed to the lazy. THAT is why outsourcing is so popular, because in this country success is punished instead of having a fair system that taxes everyone equally regardless of how much money they make.
 
Big corporations lobbying and buying off politicians had nothing to do with it? I'm sure like here there are loads of people on benefits, but I'm sure the vast majority want work, not like you suggest, the minority!

Too many people looking for a fast buck, too much greed, big corporations not paying its fair share in taxes, looking to make as big a profit for themselves at the expense of working conditions, pay and benefits to employees! These are the key issues in both our countries, the rich creating and exploiting loop holes so they don't have to pay, its amusing how so many of the really rich end up paying less percentage wise in tax than many of the lower to middle end wages!

With a fair tax system, the super rich would still exploit loop holes, people need honest politicians that will stand up for the majority of citizens, not just the ones who pay for it!
 
sntaylor said:
Big corporations lobbying and buying off politicians had nothing to do with it? I'm sure like here there are loads of people on benefits, but I'm sure the vast majority want work, not like you suggest, the minority!

Too many people looking for a fast buck, too much greed, big corporations not paying its fair share in taxes, looking to make as big a profit for themselves at the expense of working conditions, pay and benefits to employees! These are the key issues in both our countries, the rich creating and exploiting loop holes so they don't have to pay, its amusing how so many of the really rich end up paying less percentage wise in tax than many of the lower to middle end wages!

With a fair tax system, the super rich would still exploit loop holes, people need honest politicians that will stand up for the majority of citizens, not just the ones who pay for it!
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There are just as many lobbyist groups spending just as much money for the opposite (Unions, immigration groups, etc)

Living here you see first hand that the American spirit is gone from the majority of America. I wish people still took pride and hated government handouts, but unfortunately that is no longer the case. Americans have developed a sense of entitlement and no longer want to work hard to earn anything, and why would they when it is perfectly acceptable now to let the government take care of you. Things are going to get worse before they get any better, because until this country hits rock bottom like Greece the sheep here aren't going to learn anything.
 
Yeah because $700 a month from SSI, a wage nobody can actually live on, is such an attractive prospect. Everybody is just clamoring to get in on that. Who would want to work and have a decent, comfortable life when you can barely scrape by and run out of food every month and not afford to maintain a vehicle or go anywhere or do anything or go on holiday. You're right that's what everybody wants.

Nobody is saying something shouldn't be done about the moochers who can work but don't want to. But the reality is they are the minority. And to say that literally 50% of the country is supporting the other half is ludicrous. Just because someone doesn't make enough money to pay federal income tax doesn't mean they do nothing or pay no taxes.

At least jobs are going up again. Could be faster if the irresponsible, childish republicans in congress knew how to compromise at all. But what's the alternative? The Bush style policies that caused such massive job loss in the first place?

Obama would like to do something about the deficit. But republicans won't give an inch. It's called raising revenue and entitlement REFORM. Not just willy nilly cutting out the safety net, all while lowering taxes on the rich even more. That is what republicans want and that would be disastrous.
 
Bob Maxey said:
Prosperity flows downhill.
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Except that it doesn't. And that has been proved. Definitively. Please stop making idiotic assertions that have been shown to be absolutely false: the history of the last 30 years shows - indisputably and undeniably - that wealth does not trickle down to the poor, it gets sucked up by the rich.

The rich are 10 times richer in real terms than they were 30 years ago. The middle class is actually poorer in real terms than it was before Bush 2. Trickle down is a lie.

The rich get more and pay (proportionately) less. The headline tax rate for the rich is around half what it was 30 years ago. As you saw from the two tax returns Romney deigned to share, their actual tax rate is way lower - nobody knows if Romney paid any tax at all in the years he didn't publish. And he knew he was going to stand for the presidency. Here in the UK, a famous comedian was revealed to have paid less than 2% tax on his multi-million dollar income. Legally. Starbucks (among many others) was revealed to have paid no corporation tax at all. Ever.

As for the ridiculous notion that the rich are supporting the poor: following the recent bank collapse, we saw the biggest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in the whole of human history. Yeah: the poor saved the ass of the rich when the rich got bailed out. Bush gave the banks nearly a trillion dollars and didn't even ask for a receipt. Congress gave the banks hundreds of millions more. The Feb continues to feed hundreds of millions to the banks in the form of quantative easing.

You really need to stop this "math you do as a republican to make yourself feel better" and try looking at reality. Make a nice change.


chrlswltrs said:
Please explain how things are better now?? More unemployed
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Unemployment is down since Obama came in.

chrlswltrs said:
more illegal aliens
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Immigration is down since Obama came in.

chrlswltrs said:
a more divided country
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Think you'll find it's Republicans that have continually refused to compromise. Obama's problem in his first term was that he tried to compromise way too much.

chrlswltrs said:
skyrocketing deficit with zero signs of slowing down
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Because Republicans refuse to put tax rates back to where they were before Bush cut them in order to spend the budget SURPLUS left by the previous DEMOCRATIC administration.
 
SiempreTuna said:
Unemployment is down since Obama came in.



Immigration is down since Obama came in.



Think you'll find it's Republicans that have continually refused to compromise. Obama's problem in his first term was that he tried to compromise way too much.



Because Republicans refuse to put tax rates back to where they were before Bush cut them in order to spend the budget SURPLUS left by the previous DEMOCRATIC administration.
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Unemployment RATE is slightly down right now, there are actually more unemployed people, people in poverty, and people on welfare and food stamps. I explained the reason for this deception in an earlier post. Unemployment rate is highly inaccurate when you have millions that either run out of benefits or quit looking for work.

Immigration is down right now because there isn't as much of a reason to enter the country illegally like there is when our economy is thriving. There are more already here though, and Obama has said it is fine for them to continue to commit their crime of being here illegally and draining our resources without paying a dime.

Republicans should not compromise on raising taxes any further. Obama and the dems have already raised taxes on everyone in America without cutting any spending at all. The reason Republicans won't and shouldn't compromise any further is because the dems have an out of control spending problem. All they want is more and more taxes without cutting any wasteful spending. They won't compromise on spending which is what is going to eventually lead to the government defaulting on its debt.

Look at the history. Under Clinton when the economy had a surplus there was a Republican house and senate. Under Bush when the economy went to crap there was a Demacratic house and senate.
 
This reminds me of when the unemployment number started falling, all the loony conspiracy theories the right wing dreamed up. Or rather had purposely spoon fed to them by the talking heads. Like Obama and his goons literally fabricated the numbers, or that thousands of inner city jobless people lied about getting new jobs, which would make them lose unemployment and hence the means to support their families, all to make Obama look better.

When the unemployment numbers were bad, republicans used them as their gospel to prove how bad Obama was. When they're good, all of a sudden they're bs and can't be trusted. It's that way with anything good that happens. They can't admit anything good can come out of Obamas presidency, so they have to create conspiracies and twist everything around until it's somehow a bad thing after all, or a complete lie made up by liberals. And the base eats it up with a spoon. Oh how it would be to live in the fairy tale land of the republicans. Wait, actually it would be miserable. A place full of greed, mistrust, hate, misogyny, hypocrisy and bigotry. No thanks.

And Obama is not suggesting letting the "illegal aliens" keep on breaking the law. He is trying to create a rather rigorous path to citizenship so that they can be following the law and paying their share of taxes and whatnot. But the republicans idea is what? Self deportation. Another fantasy not based in reality.
 
Speed Daemon said:
It is sad to see people dooming themselves to repeat history. What I still can't figure out is how there are so many willing shills who will argue to their dying breath for a system that's going to destroy them too. :confused:
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One word: Sheeple.

People are lazy and complacent. A lot of people are wrapped up in their own little lives and concerned only with themselves and their immediate needs and desires. Damn the community.

By the time those people wake up (if ever) it'll be too late. We're on a downward slide and have been for a long time. It just seems we're moving faster downhill the older I get. :(
 
Bob Maxey said:
Interesting that our president was wildly applauded when he told us that due to his efforts, unemployment claims have declined. What he avoided saying is this was largely due to benefits running out.
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New unemployment claims (what that statistic measures) and existing claims running out are two completely different things. It's a straw man argument. FAIL

I don't recall any "wild applause" either. Facts are great. Deliberate distortions of the truth like that are patently false, and IMO have no place in a civilized discussion.
 
Mayhem said:
One word: Sheeple.

People are lazy and complacent. A lot of people are wrapped up in their own little lives and concerned only with themselves and their immediate needs and desires. Damn the community.

By the time those people wake up (if ever) it'll be too late. We're on a downward slide and have been for a long time. It just seems we're moving faster downhill the older I get. :(
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I agree that the major factor in this is a now less-than-great society that has become greedy and self-absorbed. Like children.

We have grown up adults who use their age and presumed wisdom to influence others, but they're thinking like small children! What's worse, this childish practice is being glorified by the right wing media. We have a too-large portion of the society who apparently spend all their spare time idle (and seem to have lots of spare time too), just listening to the pablum that these right wing blowhards feed them, and then go out and puke it back up all over everyone else. Unacceptable!
 
Whatever flaws there are calculating the unemployment rate, they have been calculated that way forever. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Regardless, the economy has at least been creating jobs every month for quite awhile now. Remember when Obama took over we were hemorrhaging jobs every month. The stock market was below 7000, now it's over 14,000. Remember when everyone's 401(k) was disappearing down the drain? Of course not.
 
Also, it's amusing to bash Obama for raising taxes, when the 2% payroll tax break was always intended to be temporary, and it was an Obama policy to lower it in the first place. He didn't raise everyone's taxes, the TEMPORARY tax break expired as designed. It was even extended for an extra year.
 
Gotta love those who despise the advancement of society of a whole, not those that that when everyone can at a minimum can survive. If you are in it for your personal advancement, then you are far from a ppatriot, as a true patriot would want to see everyone live rather than the lower and lower middle class die out.
 
jhtalisman said:
Gotta love those who despise the advancement of society of a whole, not those that that when everyone can at a minimum can survive. If you are in it for your personal advancement, then you are far from a ppatriot, as a true patriot would want to see everyone live rather than the lower and lower middle class die out.
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Exactly! We need everyone to advance, not be divided with class warfare that Obama loves so much. A divided nation will never prosper like a united one. Obama only wants to divide though, not help the country prosper, and he has brainwashed a lot of weak minded individuals into blindly following his lies instead of thinking for themselves and looking at the facts. You know what they say though, "ignorance is bliss"
 
chrlswltrs said:
Exactly! We need everyone to advance, not be divided with class warfare that Obama loves so much. A divided nation will never prosper like a united one. Obama only wants to divide though, not help the country prosper, and he has brainwashed a lot of weak minded individuals into blindly following his lies instead of thinking for themselves and looking at the facts. You know what they say though, "ignorance is bliss"
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Yeah, you guys like to call people you disagree with "sheeple" and "weak minded", yet your side is led by a hateful, painkiller addicted blowhard who gives talking points to his army of idiots that parrot him verbatim and are proud to call themselves "dittoheads". Oh, the irony.:rolleyes:
 
jhtalisman said:
Gotta love those who despise the advancement of society of a whole, not those that that when everyone can at a minimum can survive. If you are in it for your personal advancement, then you are far from a ppatriot, as a true patriot would want to see everyone live rather than the lower and lower middle class die out.
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I would hope rationality and a sense of humanity would come before patriotism.
 
Gmash said:
Yeah, you guys like to call people you disagree with "sheeple" and "weak minded", yet your side is led by a hateful, painkiller addicted blowhard who gives talking points to his army of idiots that parrot him verbatim and are proud to call themselves "dittoheads". Oh, the irony.:rolleyes:
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Too bad people feel the need to comment on something they know nothing about.
 
chrlswltrs said:
Exactly! We need everyone to advance, not be divided with class warfare that Obama loves so much
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Obama?!

So far as I can see, the class war has been waged - and won - by the Republicans. The rich are richer. The poor are poorer. The rich are idolised. The poor are demonised.

Obama's policies are what the hard right of the Republican party were pushing 30 years ago.

chrlswltrs said:
A divided nation will never prosper like a united one
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Quite. And the country will continue to get more and more divided while the Republicans continue to refuse to make any compromise.

chrlswltrs said:
Obama only wants to divide though
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Categorically untrue. Obama's problem has been that he spends far too much time and effort seeking concensus with people who refuse any compromise.

chrlswltrs said:
not help the country prosper
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To the extent that he has been allowed to implement his policies, they have turned the economy around, ergo: he has helped the country prosper. In the face of total, partisan opposition from the GOP.

chrlswltrs said:
and he has brainwashed a lot of weak minded individuals into blindly following his lies instead of thinking for themselves and looking at the facts. You know what they say though, "ignorance is bliss"
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LMAO! Every point you made is factually incorrect and based on right wing fantasy. I suggest Republicans take a look at the dictionary definition of the word "fact", then follow your - very good -advice and look at a few.
 
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