Im not trying to divide the blame. In fact, Im the only one that has said the blame lies at everyones feet. Please show where I imply anything differant. As gor refinancing, it was happening well before the meltdown. People were refinancing every year, for 20% more in some cases. If you never saw this, then you must not know many homeowners. Nice to see you didn't question the banks willingness to forgo income verification. As for hud, they are not the only regulaters. Fannie and freddie werent the only buyers. Yes, hud had a role, and yes they share some of the blame. No, they aren't the only ones. And, they arent the only ones in government to hold some blame. For the sixth time now, the blame lies at everyones feet.
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Obama ecconomics
- Thread starter Crude
- Start date
chandler583
Newbie
If the government really wanted to help people live within their means and live with minimal debt, there should be mandatory money management and business classes for seniors in high school to take. The government practically controls the schools too, why do we need that 4th year of English? Teach something practical and applicable.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Ever see how people murder the English language? I can see why there's 4 years of English in high school.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
ye should be learning a foreign language too
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Dark Jedi
Guest
I can hardly keep up with my current language let alone another one.
I honestly don't believe you.
I know this might be something you never realized... but, we don't have a free market. We have a HIGHLY regulated market.
Yep... and has been stated... you can thank the regulators for that number...
Regulating that free market. That thing you are advocating so hard right now... that's what was responsible for getting the subprime market rolling.
I will defend good regulation to the end of the Earth, but regulation isn't going to save us from a free market we don't have.
The difference between Obama promising something and projecting something...
If he comes through with it... it's a promise. If he doesn't... it's a projection.
So, what you are saying is that all of the increases in unemployment since Obama took office are Obama's fault...?
Every measure you can use (that I know of) has been higher under Obama's Presidency than it was under Bush.
I would disagree with you on that. IMO Waterboarding is torture. I really don't care what the legal types say about it.
Maybe you missed the huge flair up between General McChrystal and Obama. Maybe you've missed this huge cap between Obama and some parts of the military, and the complete lack of respect.
How indeed would having been in the military, serving honorably, and being a POW have helped the President wage a war...
This is why I don't honestly think you were in the military.
They were required to make loans to low income areas, and they are barred by law from providing some products to some areas, and not to others.
So, offering Sub prime loans to low income areas means that they are required by law to offer them to other areas.
Entering the sub prime market wasn't exactly voluntary.
AngryHatter
Android Expert
How have corporations changed practices?
All of them?
You don't see the economy as improving?
I counter your claim that the free market lead us into this mess by pointing out how completely regulated our markets are.
You can believe me or not, but there is reason corporations hire a team of lawyers to ensure compliance with regulations, and it's not because they aren't regulated.
Heck, Bush tried to stop the mortgage meltdown by tightening Freddie, and Frannie's lending standards. Democrats opposed him on this, and hard.
It didn't pass. Yet you blame Bush and Big business for the economic meltdown.
There is a differance between "waging a war" and "acheiving peace". Again read what I wrote before commenting. Please. And, that isn't the first time you flat call me a lyer, for not agreeing with you. The last time you must have felt really foolish when others chimed in and said they didn't agree with you either.
Ok.
They've gone from nothing to do with it, to far less, to a small role in the course of our conversation.
Yes, I'm well aware people have been refinancing for many years, but I've never read anything suggesting it was a contributing factor. After the meltdown refinancing has gone through the roof, to the point banks are clogged with paperwork. Can you point to something suggesting refinancing played a factor in the meltdown?
Uhh... you knew what I thought about the situation 5 years ago? I thought they gave out loans too easily then and now.
No, but they set the requirements for FHA loans and regulate F&F.
No, just the biggest, controlling something like 50% or more of the market at the time.
That I agree with, but it doesn't jive with your past statements.
I see it like trying to say your great great grandmother has a smaller role in you being here than your grandmother. If anyone in that chain is gone, your not here anymore. Same with this, any link could have stopped the crisis if they had acted properly.
I go with jedi here. The market is recovering because corporations are laying people off and doing more with less improving the bottom line. Historically, when recesions like this happen, thats what corporations do, then small business and new businesses make up for the job loses. Trouble is, no one is starting or investing in small businesses during this recovery, partly because of the uncertainty, and part of that uncertainty can be traced back to Obama and things he's said and done (or not said, and not done)
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Dark Jedi
Guest
I hope your not serious by saying this. Ok business like byte said laid off thousands of workers. Closed entire plants and outsourced jobs. Plus they combimmore jobs together for one person.
This is why unemployment hasn't started to really come down. These companies has seen they can do just as much production with less workers. So that saves them more money in the long run.
I went through a plant closing last year with Mohawk carpets. They said flat out they was closing our plant because it was no longer needed and by closing they would save millions in operating costs.
So yes companies changed their buisness practices and mostly why the stock market improved. It wasn't government help as they only helped a select few andthey took that money to pay their executive bonuses and pay for retreats for these people.
Yes, when someone is saying one party holds no blame, I point out where the blame is. On everyone. Yes the government holds the most, and not hud. Yes holds some, but they are not the only ones in gov that do. Context plays a big role in somones words. For the tenth time, my view is EVERYONE holds blame. Some people want to let the banks off scott free. Sorry, they played a roll.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Right above you said the government had nothing to do with it and the blame was on the bankers and home owners. Then later on you said government had a lil part. Then you said government was to blame as everyone else.
What I said was, and it is right above, the government had nothing to do with banks pushing subprimes on people who would easily qualify for a conventional. What I said was, the government had nothing to do with the banks willingness to forgoe income verification. What I NEVER said was the government held no blame. What I have said, from the very beginning is, the blame lies on EVERYONE.
(wearing the mod hat)
I'm confused - this seems like a kind of nit-picking, or I'm missing something.
nlsme HAS repeatedly said blame is there to be distributed. If some remarks were were malformed on his side, or misread on others' side (and I have no opinion either way - nor does it matter) --- he's corrected it repeatedly.
Let's just move forward.
I'm confused - this seems like a kind of nit-picking, or I'm missing something.
nlsme HAS repeatedly said blame is there to be distributed. If some remarks were were malformed on his side, or misread on others' side (and I have no opinion either way - nor does it matter) --- he's corrected it repeatedly.
Let's just move forward.
D
Dark Jedi
Guest
Well he asked for proof. So I just gave him his Prof that's all. Plus its well known Clinton pushed the banks to approve people that other wise wouldn't be approved. But I will stop as you wish.
If you will do some research, regulators and lenders, Objected to Clintons changes that forced them to make loans to minorities and people with poor credit. The Dems said we need to give these people a chance to prove that they can establish credit. The people that defaulted on huge numbers of these loans that they shouldn't have qualified for.
And NAFTA has encouraged many many companies to close factories in the USA.
Now look at where all of the tax dollars and SSI and Medicare payments have gone.
The smoking gun..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64
I never denied clintons role in getting the ball rolling. I just was pointing out, the banks took that ball, ran with it, and threw it off a cliff. That is their tole in it. But again, go ahead and let the banks off the hook. I will keep saying the blame lies at eveveryones feet. Ohh, Im probably older then your daddy. I was already a homeowner before clinton.