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Obvious solution to make Note 7's 'safe' for transport?

Good luck convincing TSA that your Note 7 is completely discharged and is, therefore, incapable of spontaneous combustion. If you've flown lately, you're aware that they're not exactly experts in their field (TSA tests to sneak weapons aboard planes succeeded 95% of the time). If you have a Note 7, you ain't flying with it.

Please: just turn the thing in. We will all get over the loss.
 
In China, can't even get a cigarette lighter on-board a plane for domestic flights, and from what I've seen lately they're very good at spotting them as well. And doesn't matter if it's empty or not, lighters are prohibited items. Matches as well.

"not exactly experts in their field" reminds me of the TSA and prohibiting Macbook Air when it first came out. Because they couldn't see a CD-ROM and/or hard disk via x-ray, it's not a laptop, therefore it must be a bomb.

BTW a friend and I had something happen with security check on the Beijing Subway with a harmonica. Harmonica was in a suitcase, which went through the x-ray, they asked us to open the case, and actually play a few notes on the instrument, just to prove what it was and that we weren't trying to conceal a knife. Thing is, things like knives, guns and brass knuckles are prohibited on the subway, but apparently martial arts weapons are OK, like nunchaku and throwing stars. Although IMO with nunchaku if you're not competent in the skill, the only person you're likely to hurt is yourself.
 
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As someone just said, the idea really was just academic. I tried to point out I didn't see it having any practical legs. I haven't seen or read or heard anything though that raises any doubts for me about its validity :)

I'm not planning on doing any air travel in the next year, that I'm aware of. I'll be keeping my Note 7 and taking prudent precautions with it. I'll either be doing that until Samsung does anything to render it unusable, or the next generation device is released.
 
dontpanicbobby said:
Will you use it as a paperweight? Well I Guess's you could still post here anyway...
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I'll keep using it for free, as long as I can. If I get a few months use out of it, at least, before Verizon or Samsung were to prevent me from using it further, I'll make up for losing their $100 'incentive' for not turning it in. The device payment plan was something like $36/month. Verizon has already zeroed that out on everyone's accounts. So the phone is now free.
 
dontpanicbobby said:
Will you use it as a paperweight? Well I Guess's you could still post here anyway...
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I use this as a paperweight....
M67b.jpg




...and unlike the N7, with the M67 I get to decide when and if it should go off.


BTW Verizon blacklisting of the Note7 has already started apperently...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyNote7/comments/57omxn/verizon_already_blacklisting_note_7/

"This device is not authorized for use..."
 
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Well it's being reported today that Samsung are settling up "hand in" booths at airports where people can return the phones they are no longer allowed to take on a plane (for exchange or refund). Currently in S. Korea and Australia, with plans to expand to other countries (doubt we'll see them in the UK though - we didn't even get a payment for the inconvenience).

Edit: corrected one of SwiftKey's little additions - I did of course type "S. Korea" and not "Scotland. Korea"! Sometimes autocorrect can be a liability...
 
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mikedt said:
BTW Verizon blacklisting of the Note7 has already started apparently...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyNote7/comments/57omxn/verizon_already_blacklisting_note_7/

"This device is not authorized for use..."
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go backwards far enough, and on the 1st day of this issue, I said "the carriers will blacklist/block all of the Note 7 IMEI numbers... as Samsung does NOT want them in service anywhere. "

it just takes a while for all of the info to finally filter into the carriers' databases... but it seems that is now a fact.
 
I fully expected Samsung and the carriers to shut these phones down remotely. I would have if I were them. Now I'm waiting for notifications to go out to all remaining Note 7 owners, stating that effective November 1st, the owners assume all liability for any injury or damage caused by their phones. Samsung and the CPSC have done their jobs: I can't imagine anyone out there with a Note 7 who isn't aware that their device is under a safety recall.
 
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johnpjackson said:
And sure. If you gave me a Glock and allowed me to remove all the rounds from the clip and the chamber, I'd let my infant daughter put the barrel in her mouth. Eeeesh. Not that it wouldn't still horrify me.. But that's the point - facts are facts. If there's no doubts about them, you can rely on them.
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So you're saying that unless you're the one emptying the chamber, you wouldn't trust giving the gun to your daughter? The same logic can be applied to airlines/Samsung. Unless they're the ones emptying the battery, how can they be sure it is completely empty?

Fwiw, if you completely drain a lithium ion battery, you need a special type of charger to get it to accept charge again. As a consequence, most (if not all) Android devices have a safety mechanism in them to ensure there is a small amount of charge (between 5-10%) left when it reports there's it's empty and powers itself off. So even if you think the battery is flat, it's not.
 
johnpjackson said:
As someone just said, the idea really was just academic. I tried to point out I didn't see it having any practical legs. I haven't seen or read or heard anything though that raises any doubts for me about its validity :)

I'm not planning on doing any air travel in the next year, that I'm aware of. I'll be keeping my Note 7 and taking prudent precautions with it. I'll either be doing that until Samsung does anything to render it unusable, or the next generation device is released.
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You should go to a local gun shop and apply for a license to 'Open Carry' or 'Concealed Carry', depending on your states laws. This would legitimize your right to continue to use this weapon responsibly. If confronted by any authority or Airline, you can show them the license and be on your way.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not against guns - just Note 7's! :D
 
El Presidente said:
The same logic can be applied to airlines/Samsung. Unless they're the ones emptying the battery, how can they be sure it is completely empty?

Fwiw, if you completely drain a lithium ion battery, you need a special type of charger to get it to accept charge again. As a consequence, most (if not all) Android devices have a safety mechanism in them to ensure there is a small amount of charge (between 5-10%) left when it reports there's it's empty and powers itself off. So even if you think the battery is flat, it's not.
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How can you be sure the battery is as empty as possible? How can you readily check for that? Try to power the device up. If it doesn't have enough charge to do that, it's discharged. That's conclusive, on the spot.

As for the battery still retaining some charge even when it's discharged enough so the device won't power on, I agree, that's something to be considering. That was part of why I was curious. My theory (and again, I've just been looking for knowledgeable feedback from others about this) is that even at 5-10% remaining charge, I'd say it's easily plausible that wouldn't be enough stored energy to overheat the battery to the point of it bursting its casing, that of the device containing it, and igniting, even if you put a dead short on it.

The whole Note 7 self-ignition problem stems from the stored energy in its battery being expended in a very short period of time. As in, by it experiencing a dead short. That part has not appeared to be in question. The only part of the problem which appears to be unexplained is HOW the short circuit condition is arising. Agree? Disagree?
 
johnpjackson said:
The whole Note 7 self-ignition problem stems from the stored energy in its battery being expended in a very short period of time. As in, by it experiencing a dead short. That part has not appeared to be in question. The only part of the problem which appears to be unexplained is HOW the short circuit condition is arising. Agree? Disagree?
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No one knows why it's happening, not even Samsung at this point so any one else claiming it to be x or y means nothing.
 
johnpjackson said:
I've just been looking for knowledgeable feedback from others about this) is that even at 5-10% remaining charge, I'd say it's easily plausible that wouldn't be enough stored energy to overheat the battery to the point of it bursting its casing, that of the device containing it, and igniting, even if you put a dead short on it.
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Actually, you are quite incorrect there. A Li-Ion storage battery is not like a balloon filled with air. As you release the air from a balloon, the air pressure will decrease along a linear scale. Modern battery technology is such that a Li-Ion battery will deliver a constant voltage/amperage discharge until it reached a certain threshold and then step down to a maintenance mode. A completely discharged Li-Ion battery will be rendered inert, which is why the circuitry prevents complete discharge. That means, that even if the phone won't boot, the battery can still produce output at fully charged levels.

johnpjackson said:
The only part of the problem which appears to be unexplained is HOW the short circuit condition is arising.
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Maybe they do know why and don't want to make it public because it would divulge trade secrets. Who knows. But the fact is that when the problem arose, it was reported and Samsung tried to fix it and failed. They have now determined that this is enough of a danger to warrant discontinuing production of a flagship product, recalling the devices for a full refund and working with carriers and resellers to have them permanently disabled. Samsung, who is vastly more knowledgeable about the design and production of the Note 7 and stands to suffer much greater harm from admitting it still says there's a real risk.

Without knowing the cause, you are only speculating as everyone else is. Let me paraphrase the great Miracle Max ... "Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your battery here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do. Go through his clothes and look for loose change." ;)
 
johnpjackson said:
Are you saying such a discharged cell would in some way still retain an amount stored chemical energy necessary to create the heat required to cause cell and device case ruptures, and self-ignition that we've seen in this situation?
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As pointed out above, a li-ion cell cannot be fully discharged. Also heat isn't a prerequisite to rupture a cell; internal pressure alone will do it if it's high enough.
 
Hadron said:
Well it's being reported today that Samsung are settling up "hand in" booths at airports where people can return the phones they are no longer allowed to take on a plane (for exchange or refund). Currently in Scotland. Korea and Australia, with plans to expand to other countries (doubt we'll see them in the UK though - we didn't even get a payment for the inconvenience).
Click to expand...

Last time I checked Scotland is a country in the United Kingdom. So why did Samsung choose Scotland only?

@Slug in Inverness, is Scotland in the UK?
 
I looked up some figures. A normal Li-Ion battery operatres at 3.6V and shuts down once the output reaches 2.8-3.0V:

Source:
upload_2016-10-18_16-11-57.png


The primary reason for disabling the battery is to both prolong its life and to protect the user. (Although it is also true that, well before it hits 0V, the voltage would be insufficient to power the device). If the battery's charge is allowed to drop significantly further, it can be dangerous to then attempt to revitalise it:

Source:
"Do not boost lithium-based batteries back to life that have dwelled below 1.5V/cell for a week or longer. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells that can lead to a partial or total electrical short."

It's important to remember that this may have nothing to do with the design flaw of the Note 7. But certainly, at the point at which your phone reports it has 0% power left, that means it has 0% of its safe, usable charge left, not that the battery is empty of energy.
 
I'm not surprised by the details being shared about how the battery management is designed to operate, and why.

I still see something being overlooked. Yes, while the battery management hardware shuts the battery down while it is still capable of generating enough voltage and current to power the device, the crux is, for how long? Several more seconds? Several more minutes? Longer? You wouldn't expect it would be any great length of time. Or would it? If there's only enough energy left in it, at that point, to continue 'full' output for a few more moments or so, I would want to know if that amount of remaining energy was even capable of causing violent self-destruction of the battery, if directly shorted out. My whole point is, I would think it would not be. I'm not saying I KNOW that, I'm saying that's what I would expect. Maybe someone following this thread knows.
 
Source:
"Most mobile phones, laptops and other portable devices turn off when the lithium-ion battery reaches 3.00V/cell on discharge. At this point the battery has about 5 percent capacity left."

So, if you calculate that as 5% of standby time, quite a long time actually.
 
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