Well, let's move on in this one, and leave that discussion for that thread.
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*OFFICIAL* Xoom vs iPad 2 Discussions
- Thread starter Roze
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- motorola xoom
zipur
Member
Got news for ya'all. The Xoom is not a Google flagship device like Nexus One. The Xoom is made by Moto. A Xoom, Galaxy, or any other Android device will get its one month in the spotlight then disappears. Each device will be replaced by another Android device in the market. You'll be lucky to get any kind of upgrade and support beyond 4-6 months.
Profitability is what matters to investors. Market share is for bragging rights but doesn't pay the bill. Example: look at General Motors.
A 10% market share may still be good. Look at the iPhone and its 4% global market share. If the iPhone was a separate company, its market value would be more than that of Motorola, RIM, Nokia, HTC - combine. But still this should be the next add for Xoom, (of course change the name and product to reflect Android knocking off Apple) I believe we are on the verge of some android product doing this. But they gotta fight in the apple play box, Size, Speed and "KISS" Keep it simple because to get market share you must capture the Teen's and Grands.
ease of use. As for market share Here's what Apple did.....they took online orders early, locked in the credit card approvals, and then sent the stock to the stores for people who lined up. Everyone paid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8
Or does apple have some subliminal app the re-flashes peoples brain to cause them to stand in line for days to get the newest apple (Anything). Sometimes I wonder and I'm sure Moto, Samsung and HP wonder to.
Profitability is what matters to investors. Market share is for bragging rights but doesn't pay the bill. Example: look at General Motors.
A 10% market share may still be good. Look at the iPhone and its 4% global market share. If the iPhone was a separate company, its market value would be more than that of Motorola, RIM, Nokia, HTC - combine. But still this should be the next add for Xoom, (of course change the name and product to reflect Android knocking off Apple) I believe we are on the verge of some android product doing this. But they gotta fight in the apple play box, Size, Speed and "KISS" Keep it simple because to get market share you must capture the Teen's and Grands.
ease of use. As for market share Here's what Apple did.....they took online orders early, locked in the credit card approvals, and then sent the stock to the stores for people who lined up. Everyone paid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8
Or does apple have some subliminal app the re-flashes peoples brain to cause them to stand in line for days to get the newest apple (Anything). Sometimes I wonder and I'm sure Moto, Samsung and HP wonder to.
Apple's been building UIs a little longer than Google. Google has been scouring for UI hires at the top level.
9 women can't have a baby in 1 month.
As for easy to use, I've yet to find iOS all that easy and Android all that hard.
The meme that iOS is just easy is a popular one, but mileage on that varies for many. My 80 year old mom came to visit last summer and wanted to know why my sister's iPhone was so counter-intuitive while my Evo was so easy to use and understand.
Moto, Samsung and HTC had nothing to compete against the iPhone until Google came along. The idea that Google is holding back Android and making it so hard for these poor, disadvantaged companies - getting an entire OS for free - unable to compete against Apple because of the UI leaves me at a loss for words, so I'll just laugh.
In phones, the companies you mention have scrapped the Google UI in favor of their own. Very few devices have sported the vanilla Google interface - the Xoom is one of them for vanilla Honeycomb.
Forget Honeycomb, some day we'll be sporting Tiramisu. I predict on the day of its release, we'll still be hearing about how magically easy iOS is.
Yes, and some day Android will have its own sheep, too.
Meanwhile, to write off all Apple buyers as sheep does disservice to some very good products.
(I presume you're aware that the gray followers in that commercial were PC users.)
Here's an interesting iPad 2 article.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/15/inside_the_ipad_2/
Roze
Hiding behind a mystery
hmmm...Tiramisu *drools* Can I have it now please?
By looking at AF and others, I'd say Android already has its own sheeps
*bahhhh* XDI don't get how OS customizing can be at the forefront of anyone's tablet choice. Isn't it really about the apps? I mean how long can you spend customizing your UI the way you like it? You still have to eventually go to the Android market, which sucks major a$s. I don't go to my favorite restaurants based on how nice their tables are. I go for the food...
rushmore
Extreme Android User
What is Iswifter? Plays Flash sites directly? Skyfire is used for data mining, so folks may want to watch out on what they are watching
Skyfire makes their money with the data mining. They do not report the user, but DO report the site and file.
rushmore
Extreme Android User
If I did not care for Flash, USB host or game emulators, I would get an iPad 2. Who is kidding who???? No need to mod the thing- it works perfectly already and TONS of great apps now- not later. The quantity verses quality does not wash- even with that ratio in play, iOS destroys Android and will for at least the next year.
Most people IMO would be silly to not get the iPad 2. Us geeks are a minority of folks- most people could care less about the Android advantages (that do not need root).
As mentioned before, I bought an iPod 4 64gb and gTablet and was still about $85 less than the VZW version of the Xoom. I have the good Apple and Android stuff.
My perspective is the consumer in general and not the geek.
Most people IMO would be silly to not get the iPad 2. Us geeks are a minority of folks- most people could care less about the Android advantages (that do not need root).
As mentioned before, I bought an iPod 4 64gb and gTablet and was still about $85 less than the VZW version of the Xoom. I have the good Apple and Android stuff.
My perspective is the consumer in general and not the geek.
reiththestud
Android Enthusiast
First of all, I wouldn't say the Android Market sucks major a$s, as you put it. I can't tell you how free I felt after jumping from iOS to Android with my htc EVO.
Second, As for tablet apps, yeah, it's scant. But so was the iPad when it launched last year, and look at it now. Apps all over the place. Most of those developers shouldn't have too difficult of a time porting their iPad apps over and Google's new fragments API should make it even easier for them to hit a wider array of Android products.
In the interim, many Android phone apps work on Honeycomb. There are bugs and it's not 100%, but you're not left with nothing.
Now can we get some hulu, netflix, skype video call love please?
rushmore
Extreme Android User
Agreed it does not suck, but the point is it is not better than the the iOS market as some suggest it is. I have 18gb of apps on my iPod and most are paid versions. Most of those also work on the iPad as well.
Both devices have a fit, but the general consumer is better of IMO with the iPad 2 and tthe app ecosytem there. Still, I would pick the Xoom over the iPad 2, for the same reasons most here would.
For starters...Idk what you mean by one way because saying something is open means there are many ways.
Secondly....Apple is in a league of its own. They control ecosystem and no matter what Google does it would not fix that for these other makers. Apple makes money from movies, apps, and songs that each person downloads from these things. So they can live with less profit margins. These other makers ONLY make cash when they sell the device.
The only one even close is Samsung because they make some of their own parts so they can compete on price. They also I believe have a media hub that may grow over time. But I don't see any one company getting anywhere near what Apple has accomplished.
By looking at AF and others, I'd say Android already has its own sheeps
Man Pays $900 to Be First in Line for iPad 2, Joins Long Line of Apple Over-Spenders
Thats just crazy. I haven't seen many avid Android fans that go and so stuff like that. Perhaps they exist but don't make the news.
We don't have to go to the Android market. We don't have ipads. We have freedom to go wherever we want.
Its true that our apps are not great but its been under 3 weeks since the first HC tablet.
Customizing, while not overly important is great for me. I would prefer to have folders with my apps so I can design the way I want. Its not JUST changing stuff around everyday its about setting things the way you want it to. I have my phone customized the way I like it so its simple and easy to get whats important to me. Doesn't work with ipad.
Not to mention I bought these things to be internet tablets. I don't want to see 50% ish of the internet. I want the whole experience. I can wait on a fancy checkers game to play on my tab someday. But I'll be waiting a lot longer for Jobs to change his mentality.
YOU may simply go for the food. But imo most ppl factor in the atmosphere of a restaurant before going also. Do ppl chose Rainforest Cafe because it has great food? Thats actually a serious question since I have never been there. It looks like a rly nice place.
reiththestud
Android Enthusiast
I have to agree with you that most people would be silly to not get the iPad 2. Geeks are a minority and Honeycomb's current draw is to that more fringe element. But I do emphasize CURRENT DRAW. Android is getting more polished and I think it will be a stellar year for it, especially as better devices get released(I think the Xoom will go down as the first Honeycomb tablet, not the best). But do you really think the App store will stay ahead of Android for a whole year? It will obviously still have more total apps a year from now, but will it be missing so many "staple" apps to keep people away? I'm not so sure.
Unlike the iPhone 2g, 3g, and 3gs, the iPad 2 is actually toe-to-toe with its competition spec-wise. The draw to the first three generations of iPhones was mainly in iOS, not its mediocre hardware. The iPhone 4 was the first major revolutionary jump in phone specs for Apple that really sprang it forward. Combine the iPad 2's specs with its well rounded ecosystem, it's a compelling buy.
I'm holding out for the Galaxy Tab 10.1 or 8.9, whichever suits my fancy better. But yeah, the iPad 2 is not a bad choice.
reiththestud
Android Enthusiast
lolz. to answer your question, I love Rainforest Cafe. It's a cool place to eat and the food is pretty good. But mostly, lolz.
I wish I knew why our apps never lived up to what ios has. Someone told me yest how the Pulse app got update on ios and now has different sections instead of a large wall.
There is that theory that we steal more then ios does but I don't see what is stopping the Free ad supported apps from getting better.
I went there a few years ago at the MGM Grand in Vegas. I don't remember the food at all, only the atmosphere, therefore won't make a point in returning.
I'm not yet able to understand your thinking, despite seeing others exercise it often.
As geeks, we can see the wheels turning wrongly when a normal person tries to understand tech.
In my opinion, what we don't see is what we can't see because we're geeks - how they got there in the first place.
I therefore question - how can one be a geek and still have the perspective of the consumer in general?
I tend to conclude - one cannot, that is a form of contamination in logic.
I'm aware that we can share anecdotes that are contrary to my conclusion - but do we have anything non-anecdotal?
I say we do not - I say we have only historical trends that draw conclusions that don't apply to geeks, and therefore, when we are right, it's accidentally so, and our contaminated logic precludes us from seeing that.
The data at hand says the iPad captured hearts, minds and users when previous very good tablets did not. The conclusion I draw is that iPad 2 will therefore be a rousing success.
The data at hand says Android captured hearts, minds and users over the iPhone. The conclusion I draw is that Android tablets will therefore be a rousing success.
Because I have no historical data for Android tablets that is favorable in sales numbers, I cannot tell if the day of success is upon us and ushered in by Honeycomb and the Xoom or if it's yet to happen in the future.
From the ecstatic comments of many Xoom owners, it certainly seems something is up.
PS - I have yet to see normals understand the geek perspective, yet I see them claim to. How are geeks claiming to understand the normal perspective any different?
By the way, iOS4 has folders... we just don't get any widget love.
I'm holding out for Samsung's first s/AMOLED... Being a Vibrant owner, despite all its problems, the sexy s/AMOLED kept me from throwing the damn thing against the wall. Everyone here is talking about sexy tablets... please... the first LED tablet will have all others, iPad-2 included, looking like their grandma in a bikini. Once you go LED...
reiththestud
Android Enthusiast
I freelance doing computer repair, building, and consulting for friends, family, and anyone else who needs help navigating the complex consumer electronics world. I am sought out by those who know me because of my expertise and "geekiness". Working with average consumers, I have gathered a lot of knowledge about how the average consumer conceives personal electronics and what they expect from them. I have a lot of perspective on the average consumer, despite my geek status, because of the time I have spent amongst these ignorant peoples (kidding, kidding). I think most geeks lack this perspective because they exist exclusively in their geek world(I did for many years). They fail to comprehend why someone would choose product "A", when product "B" is technically better and more capable. It takes a lot of time working with average consumers to understand them.
That being said, Jobs played the consumer market like a fiddle. People had been clamoring for an iPod phone for years. What Jobs finally gave them was not so much an iPod phone, but a Mac phone. But it was marketed as the iPod phone. People transferred that familiarity and love for the iPod brand into a newfound love for the iPhone. Had Apple presented the phone as the iMac Phone, people would've said "all I have is Windows computers. I don't even like Macs, why would I want a Mac phone?". People fell in love with Macs without even knowing it. Now people are transferring that love of iPod and iPhones, into a love for Macs which is part of the reason Mac sales have been skyrocketing (the Vista reason aside). Understanding consumers is key, and Apple seems to have figured that out.
reiththestud
Android Enthusiast
We may see some AMOLED tablet leaks at CES next year, but I doubt we'll see an actual shipping product until the end of 2012, or sometime in 2013. AMOLED production infrastructure is still being built and I doubt the earthquake/tsunami is going to help things on that side of the world. In the interim, the super LCD that they're using in the Galaxy Tab looks pretty competitive. But seriously, is Apple the only company allowed to use an IPS screen? Come on!
Just an FYI, LED and OLED are two different things. If you're referring to Samsung's awesome screens, they're referred to as OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode). The Organic part is the important part. Otherwise all you're talking about is LED, which is simply what produces the flashing hard drive light on your computer case.
I understand the difference. Excuse my abbreviated wording. I work in semiconductor engineering, providing the tools for companies like Samsung (one of our biggest accounts) to do their magic. The worldwide wafer shortage from the Japan quake/tsunami is about two weeks out. Not gonna be a good time for us.
And people complain about the 800 dollar price of the Xoom...A full LED screen on a tablet might just raise that...."a tad".
OLEDs are wonderful things. But the price would have shocked a lot of people I think. I'm pretty sure that's why the iPad 2 didn't get a retina display. They need to figure a way to lower the price on it. The res will be insane, no question. I'll wait a generation or two before I even consider replacing my Xoom. Want a few things to mature. For now the Xoom does exactly what I need.
Roze
Hiding behind a mystery
Well we don't have to worry about long lineups for an Android phones...yet, lol.
From being a member on AF and other related forums for over a year, I've noticed that there are a number of people that are a big Android enthusiasts. I thought iPhone fans were hardcore (and wasteful) when they buy the newest iphone every year. Then I see Android fans that change their Android phones more often then they change their _____! I've see people that not only change phones every couple of months, but change carriers to GET those phones. That speaks volume on the dedicated fan base we have.