-
After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.
Phone Sections: Sub-forums vs Prefixes vs Nothing
- Thread starter Phases
- Start date
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
Phases
NO LONGER ADMIN
The only girl he gets can be deflated and put back in the closet.
Kelmar
Done by choice
I'll add another vote to what Woop and SoFlo said. That is, keep accessories and all things root as subforums.
I'd venture to say (and this is just my personal opinion) that at least 85% of threads are Support related. Something like 1 or 2% would be Tip related. IMO, most users come to the forum looking for help when they have a problem. The last thing that they want is for their thread to get "buried" in a subforum even though, in theory, it would mean that their thread would stay up top a little bit longer.
Additionally, users aren't always checking the subforums. This can be good or bad. As an example, someone who wants to Root has no desire to see the rooting stuff so a subforum for Root is a wise idea. Likewise, we don't want the Root stuff on the General page as new users will get confused very quickly.
Anyone who has had their phone more than a week at least knows a little bit about the phone and can help a brand new user. This could occur as they are reading and looking to learn for themselves as well. While they are searching through the Support forum, they could be missing a discussion in General that is actually of more help. Kind of a poor example, I know.... Personally, I feel that the subforums typically feel like a place to send a thread to die (and I know I've had numerous upset PM's from quite a few users who weren't happy that we moved their thread so that it can "die").
While I will FULLY support whatever decision is made, I personally feel that the Support and Tip/Trick forums, while being organized, do more harm than good.
I'd venture to say (and this is just my personal opinion) that at least 85% of threads are Support related. Something like 1 or 2% would be Tip related. IMO, most users come to the forum looking for help when they have a problem. The last thing that they want is for their thread to get "buried" in a subforum even though, in theory, it would mean that their thread would stay up top a little bit longer.
Additionally, users aren't always checking the subforums. This can be good or bad. As an example, someone who wants to Root has no desire to see the rooting stuff so a subforum for Root is a wise idea. Likewise, we don't want the Root stuff on the General page as new users will get confused very quickly.
Anyone who has had their phone more than a week at least knows a little bit about the phone and can help a brand new user. This could occur as they are reading and looking to learn for themselves as well. While they are searching through the Support forum, they could be missing a discussion in General that is actually of more help. Kind of a poor example, I know.... Personally, I feel that the subforums typically feel like a place to send a thread to die (and I know I've had numerous upset PM's from quite a few users who weren't happy that we moved their thread so that it can "die").
While I will FULLY support whatever decision is made, I personally feel that the Support and Tip/Trick forums, while being organized, do more harm than good.
woop
novacane (OFWGKTA)
Well said.
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
Respectfully, I disagree with a few of the notions in your post, Kelmar. It's not a strong, disagreement, but one of just a slightly different shade on the sub-forum use here (and the "threads go there to die" expression). 
I see fewer and fewer posts/threads of support having to be moved, now that the idea is soaking in. No, not a "few," per se, but fewer this week than two weeks ago, for sure, especially in Captivate, Fascinate and the Droids.
I think it's because of all of those redirect arrows in the generic area.
The Tips and Tricks sub-forum is the one that is needed the least, to be sure, and to reiterate what's being said by some in favor of option #2. But to be the least needed is not to be unneeded; it's just a naturally less used for its purpose sub-forum. Threads in there seeking support or asking for a "tip" on when Froyo is to be released just have to be moved out, that's our job.
And that gets me to my biggest concern here, that the place acquired structure under the sub-forum schema, and now that we've seen it takes work to keep that structure intact and used properly, we're seeing smart, hard working people talk about how it's too much to maintain.
In my opinion the most worthwhile things take serious, ongoing maintenance by dedicated specialists in what they do. What we have here is superior to the way it was before, but harder to keep as it was intended to be kept. Coming up with easier ways to keep it up seems to have an air of turning back in the direction of the near chaos it was.
I see fewer and fewer posts/threads of support having to be moved, now that the idea is soaking in. No, not a "few," per se, but fewer this week than two weeks ago, for sure, especially in Captivate, Fascinate and the Droids.
I think it's because of all of those redirect arrows in the generic area.
The Tips and Tricks sub-forum is the one that is needed the least, to be sure, and to reiterate what's being said by some in favor of option #2. But to be the least needed is not to be unneeded; it's just a naturally less used for its purpose sub-forum. Threads in there seeking support or asking for a "tip" on when Froyo is to be released just have to be moved out, that's our job.
And that gets me to my biggest concern here, that the place acquired structure under the sub-forum schema, and now that we've seen it takes work to keep that structure intact and used properly, we're seeing smart, hard working people talk about how it's too much to maintain.
In my opinion the most worthwhile things take serious, ongoing maintenance by dedicated specialists in what they do. What we have here is superior to the way it was before, but harder to keep as it was intended to be kept. Coming up with easier ways to keep it up seems to have an air of turning back in the direction of the near chaos it was.
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
With apologies for a double post (I didn't want to edit in to an already long post above), I would like to use the analogy of the sub-forums above the Lounge forum, to make my point about how useful they are.
Yes, we move threads out of the Lounge and into forums all over AF on a daily basis, probably to device areas more than others. Seldom does a thread have to be moved from the Lounge to "Sports" or to "TV/Film." Perhaps "Politics and Current Affairs" picks up a few.
I think that area is an example of how a high percentage of members get used to the idea of sub-forums once they're maintained (those infernal redirect arrows where their or another's thread used to be).
When I first came here, I was mildly dismayed to see the "Android Lounge," not knowing its purpose in a forum cluster so huge and with so many device forums. I half way expected to see the device forums as sub-forums linked-to on that same page; a huge list above the Android Lounge, for a new member to fly right to their area of concern.
But I digress.
Yes, we move threads out of the Lounge and into forums all over AF on a daily basis, probably to device areas more than others. Seldom does a thread have to be moved from the Lounge to "Sports" or to "TV/Film." Perhaps "Politics and Current Affairs" picks up a few.
I think that area is an example of how a high percentage of members get used to the idea of sub-forums once they're maintained (those infernal redirect arrows where their or another's thread used to be
). When I first came here, I was mildly dismayed to see the "Android Lounge," not knowing its purpose in a forum cluster so huge and with so many device forums. I half way expected to see the device forums as sub-forums linked-to on that same page; a huge list above the Android Lounge, for a new member to fly right to their area of concern.
But I digress.
Kelmar
Done by choice
Respectfully, I disagree with a few of the notions in your post, Kelmar. It's not a strong, disagreement, but one of just a slightly different shade on the sub-forum use here (and the "threads go there to die" expression).
I see fewer and fewer posts/threads of support having to be moved, now that the idea is soaking in. No, not a "few," per se, but fewer this week than two weeks ago, for sure, especially in Captivate, Fascinate and the Droids.
I think it's because of all of those redirect arrows in the generic area.
The Tips and Tricks sub-forum is the one that is needed the least, to be sure, and to reiterate what's being said by some in favor of option #2. But to be the least needed is not to be unneeded; it's just a naturally less used for its purpose sub-forum. Threads in there seeking support or asking for a "tip" on when Froyo is to be released just have to be moved out, that's our job.
And that gets me to my biggest concern here, that the place acquired structure under the sub-forum schema, and now that we've seen it takes work to keep that structure intact and used properly, we're seeing smart, hard working people talk about how it's too much to maintain.
In my opinion the most worthwhile things take serious, ongoing maintenance by dedicated specialists in what they do. What we have here is superior to the way it was before, but harder to keep as it was intended to be kept. Coming up with easier ways to keep it up seems to have an air of turning back in the direction of the near chaos it was.
No worries, that's what we are here to discuss after all!
From my experience, I'm moving thread after thread after thread after thread each time I log in on the computer, the Epic forum (the main one I visit) is bad. On the first page alone, there are TEN moved threads that still have redirects.
Of the threads that I move across the ENTIRE forum and leave comments in, I probably get PM's back from at least 15% of the users saying things like "if I wanted it there, I would have posted it there." Personally, the PM's don't bother me. What bothers me is that there is currently a dedicated place for these threads and that some users (definitely not all) either don't get it or just plain hate it.
This ultimately, I believe, leads us to look at how effective we are being as a Forum, as Moderators and as Guides and HOW we can be more effective (which as I see it is the TRUE purpose of this thread). I believe that the elimination of those two subforums and the introduction of mandatory selection of a tag will, in the long run, help the overall structure and smoothness of the forums as a whole.
BigRedGonzo
Android Expert
I voted for option #1 and then after thinking about it have decided that option #2 would be a better option as long as the number of tags doesn't get out of hand.
Kelmar
Done by choice
Your vote has been changed for you.
LOL... thanks phases, i needed sunny D all over my keyboard/monitor at 8am
Still leaning towards #1... i agree that the tips section is useless and would be better off merged into the general section but having trouble giving up on the support section.
It is true though that if there isn't 10+ threads moved every day from general to support that the same amount of general threads would be seen on page one anyway. I mean if there is always gonna be a large amount of redirects (and there almost always are) in the general section then in theory it shouldn't matter.
I personally would love it, no matter what route we go, if it were possible to show a larger number of threads per page site wide. Think we are sitting on 26 per page now
Phases
NO LONGER ADMIN
..how does 50 sound? Try that..
reinbeau
Klaatu barada nikto
I agree. Get rid of Tips but not the support section. And use the tags. If anything it will make people think a bit more before they post.
I agree
I know you can change the number of posts that show up in thread but didn't think you could change the number of threads that show up in the sections themselves.
Where is that done if possible phases??
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
I'm hoping Tips and Tricks remain (although with a name change, as in some of the device sub-forums, "How Tos and Tips," etc).
If it is maintained correctly, it could be one heck of a resource to be linked in the device guide, as well as referred to in responses to support queries.
We'd have to agree that no questions are to be allowed in there at all, and that only a sharing of discovered remedies, etc, as the OP, not as something that came along in a thread following a query, be proper for that sub-forum.
If it is maintained correctly, it could be one heck of a resource to be linked in the device guide, as well as referred to in responses to support queries.
We'd have to agree that no questions are to be allowed in there at all, and that only a sharing of discovered remedies, etc, as the OP, not as something that came along in a thread following a query, be proper for that sub-forum.
Roze
Hiding behind a mystery
I might be the odd one but I like the tips & tricks subforum. The threads posted in there are very useful/helful but they don't get a lot of posts (but higher views). If these threads were to go into the General phone forum, they will fall off into oblivion and those great tips will not be seen by newer members.
Love that phases!! When you first responded i thought... well nevermind what i thought, i got ya know, lol.
I think that being extended helps A TON, regardless of what the future holds.
It seems if we go to tags then as soon as people get used to sorting by certain tags that it will be beneficial for everyone. BUT if say all the tip type threads are buried a page or to deep(50 per page does help with this though) and people never think to sort by 'tips' then they will have NO way to know they are there.
Of course the global sticky will help some with that. Will it help enough though. I'm not sure... i have seen a thread that i moved to support get a reply that was such an awesome trick that i commented on it and when the user said it worked perfectly i moved it to tips/tricks. Not sure what, under the new system, what the process would be; change the tag? perhaps have a 'solved' tag to change/add it too??
And what do you mean by 'show all the stickys'
Frisco
=Luceat Lux Vestra=
I would sure like to see some server log data on sticky hits. Sounds funny, but I'm nearly certain that those are a ghost town in nearly all forums, at least by a week or so following their creation (they're looked at briefly for several days, I'm thinking, then not much at all after that).
When I see it opined that the sub-forums are a "thread graveyard," the stickies come to my mind, not the sub-forums.
Being proven wrong about that would bolster my pride in my stickies..
I would sure like to see some server log data on sticky hits. Sounds funny, but I'm nearly certain that those are a ghost town in nearly all forums, at least by a week or so following their creation (they're looked at briefly for several days, I'm thinking, then not much at all after that).
When I see it opined that the sub-forums are a "thread graveyard," the stickies come to my mind, not the sub-forums.
Being proven wrong about that would bolster my pride in my stickies..
While not the same as what your asking, they do show the # of views any given thread has
Kabob
Android Enthusiast
I say get rid of 'em all and have no prefixes. Look how much confusion is already there for new posters, when I joined I created 2 or 3 threads about various things related to my Fascinate in the main forum. Wait, you mean to find out a particular thing about this phone (when there is already a forum for it) I have to choose the correct sub-section?
If you have a question about the best case for your particular phone, you're already in a sub-forum forum based soley focusing on that phone, why make it even more complicated?
If you have a question about the best case for your particular phone, you're already in a sub-forum forum based soley focusing on that phone, why make it even more complicated?
And that makes the positive argument for the wiki idea, in my opinion.