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Postal Service Discussion

nlsme said:
The end of story is, it is cheap to thr end user, AND the taxpayer. Period. Sure, the post office gets 95% of there revenue from 5% of their retail locations. The rest suck money from them in order to ensure UNIVERSAL COVERAGE. Guess what, it isnt universal coverage when you start closing post. Why not, because people will no longer have access.
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I don't know when they started, but they've been closing post offices throughout last year... so, according to you, we no longer have Universal Coverage.


So, even by your own standards, the USPS is a failure, since they haven't maintained Universal Coverage.
 
If you've got 3 or 4 towns within 10 minutes of each other, and each with a population of a few hundred people, do you really need a post office in each town to have "universal coverage?" No, you don't.

People still have mail boxes, and a 10 minute drive over to the town with a Post Office doesn't mean you don't have access.

By the very nature of what the USPS is means it wastes money. For example, It can't close an office without literally, an act of congress. UPS can shut down an office the minute it becomes a profit drain. There are so many other factors, political factors controlling the post office, its impossible to be as efficient as a private organization.

But with that inefficiency also comes the benefits of the USPS. Like cheap access in rural areas that private industry doesn't see as profitable serving at such a cheap price.

You seriously can't have it both ways, the USPS can't be a government run and regulated organization, providing a service that private industry wouldn't (at that price) and be efficient as well.

The things that give the USPS value, prices set by congress, better access in rural areas, sweet retirement plans for employees, are the very things that also make them inefficient. UPS and FedEX are more efficient with their money because they are not bound by these things.
 
Can we all agree that the job the Post Office does is close enough for government work and put this thread out of it's misery?
 
Cipher, i dont think we disagree that much. Your right, you dont need 4 posts in ten minutes of each other. However, I never commented on the efficiancy of the usps as being great. I just pointed out the fact receive VERY LITTLE money from taxpayers, and still give a vital service to everyone, for a very good price. Thats why it is something the governmennt does right. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. Is their budget in trouble? Absolutely. In so much trouble they can't fix it, and thus become a failure? No. Do you think the usps is a failure?
 
15billion over i don't care how long of a time is still 15billion.

wish i had 15billion i could just throw away. think of the children!!!

the only place i would see the USPS being necessary are truely disadvantaged users where it is not cost effective for a private business to deliver. i can see goverment funding for a service to deliver to these places.
 
batgeek said:
15billion over i don't care how long of a time is still 15billion.

wish i had 15billion i could just throw away. think of the children!!!

the only place i would see the USPS being necessary are truely disadvantaged users where it is not cost effective for a private business to deliver. i can see goverment funding for a service to deliver to these places.
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look at the video in the op, 15b is not a lot of money, it less than .00001% of the federal budget. And, it is a LOAN. Now, I know byteware disagrees here, but technically, it is a loan.
 
@ Bob, thank you for posting that. In there, it can be found that it is in fact a comittee that approves changes to the usps. The postal regulatory commission.
 
nlsme said:
look at the video in the op, 15b is not a lot of money, it less than .00001% of the federal budget. And, it is a LOAN. Now, I know byteware disagrees here, but technically, it is a loan.
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Technically, the whole legal world disagrees with you. Capital Contribution is a LEGAL term. It's is very rigidly defined. It is NOT a loan. It is the absolute OPPOSITE of a loan. It CAN be paid back, but there is no requirement for it to be paid back.
 
As far as I am concerned, the post office is completely useless. They lost 20% of my daily newspaper, overnight mail takes 3 days, normal mail from FL to NY takes up to 4 weeks - those are only a few of my personal experiences.
 
Customers wishing to do business at a LOCAL post office can CONTINUE to do so at.....
So no. And, wasnt that suppose to involve an act of congress? Per your statement.
 
Customers wishing to do business at a LOCAL post office can CONTINUE to do so at.....
So no.
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Are you still trying to argue closing a post office ends universal coverage? didn't you agree a few posts up that 3 towns within 10 minutes don't need 3 post offices? But now you argue the other way with byteware?

And byteware is right about loan vs capital contribution. Their not bound to pay back that cash, but the law has set a 15b limit. If they want to have access to thouse capital contributions in future bad times, they have to pay some of it back over time. But they are not obligated to, meaning they can't default on it like they predict they will on other obligations.
 
No, Im pointing out that universal coverage still exists there, because there are local facilities still available. I was also pointing out, that it didn't take an act of congress to close them.

Either way, it is a relatively tiny number. Equaling less then 2% of their budget. And less then .00001% of the federal budget. But it IS a loan.

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossaryc/g/capitalcontrib.htm

"Capital contributions are not counted as income, UNLESS THE CONTRIBUTIONS ARE IN THE FORM OF A LOAN that IS EXPECTED to be REPAID."

So much for the legal definition "technically" disagreeing with me.
 
nlsme said:
Customers wishing to do business at a LOCAL post office can CONTINUE to do so at.....
So no.
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You made the statement that closing Post Offices would end Universal Coverage. I didn't make that statement. Either closing Post Offices WILL end Universal Coverage, or it won't. It appears that you are changing your statement to "it won't".

nlsme said:
And, wasnt that suppose to involve an act of congress? Per your statement.
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You do realize that this took a year and a half before Congress, and the list was originally 3000+?
 
nlsme said:
No, Im pointing out that universal coverage still exists there, because there are local facilities still available. I was also pointing out, that it didn't take an act of congress to close them.

Either way, it is a relatively tiny number. Equaling less then 2% of their budget. And less then .00001% of the federal budget. But it IS a loan.

Capital Contribution - What is a Capital Contribution - Capital Contribution Definition

"Capital contributions are not counted as income, UNLESS THE CONTRIBUTIONS ARE IN THE FORM OF A LOAN that IS EXPECTED to be REPAID."

So much for the legal definition "technically" disagreeing with me.
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That definition is "incomplete"..

Capital contribution Legal Definition - Lawyers.com

a contribution of funds or property to the capital of a business by a partner, owner, or shareholder
Under the Internal Revenue Code, a capital contribution is generally excluded from a company's gross income, unless it is a loan from a shareholder that the company is released from repaying.
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The Capital Contribution isn't counted as income UNLESS it WAS a loan the company was released from repaying...

The loan BECOMES a capital contribution, when they are released from repaying it.

A capital Contribution CANNOT be a loan.
 
The definition I linked, expressely states that a capital contribution can be in the form of a loan, the definition you linked, only states that it is considered income when it is a loan that doesnt need to be repayed. It doesnt state that capital contributions cannot be in the form of a loan. NEITHER definition states a capital contribution cannot be in the form of a loan. And again, either way, it is a relatively tiny number.

Its funny you say it took a year and a half in front of congress, yet the article you link to expressly states that it was a decision by the usps as a result of a study conducted LAST year.

No, the loan is a capital contribution that counts as income WHEN they are released from paying it. If they are not released from paying, it doesnt count as income. It can still be a capital contribution.

Just to clarify, the usps gets 95% of its revenue from 5% of its retail locations. If you close the locations that "drain" money, you are closing a lot of posts, and thus, ending universal coverage. Closing 2 posts in areas where there are other local locations does not end universal coverage. The first post to close, that will leave the populace without a local facility, would end their universal coverage. Thats why only 2 were closed, and not 3000.

And, I forgot to get back to this before. But, since you think the usps is the only currier to face a failing budget lately.FedEx swings to fourth-quarter loss on charge, fuel, economy - MarketWatch
 
nlsme said:
The definition I linked, expressely states that a capital contribution can be in the form of a loan, the definition you linked, only states that it is considered income when it is a loan that doesnt need to be repayed. It doesnt state that capital contributions cannot be in the form of a loan. NEITHER definition states a capital contribution cannot be in the form of a loan. And again, either way, it is a relatively tiny number.
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Capital Contributions are NOT loans. That's a solid legal definition.

Cash advances to a corporation: loan or capital contribution? - Free Online Library

You can also query the NUMEROUS legal battles of companies trying to classify money transfers as Capital Contributions, and the money originators fighting to have it classified as a loan...

Capital Contributions are money transfers without required repayment.

Loans are money transfers with required repayment.

nlsme said:
Its funny you say it took a year and a half in front of congress, yet the article you link to expressly states that it was a decision by the usps as a result of a study conducted LAST year.
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http://www.usps.com/strategicplanning/_pdf/McKinsey_USPS_Future_Bus_Model2.pdf

Look down to slide 13...
Prohibited by law from closing Post Offices for Economic reasons
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Do a few queries... I don't have time to look up stuff just so you can be willfully ignorant of reality.

USPS put forward a list of over 3000+ Post Offices for Closure in 2009.

It's taken that long to get just these 160+ closed...


And apparently we don't have universal coverage to begin with... at least per the USPS...

Required to deliver to almost 
every address in America
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I don't know where they don't deliver to... or why (probably extreme remote areas like Alaska)...
 
The postal service would be better served to deliver regular mail on a limited schedule, say Monday, Wednesday and Friday. The could continue to deliver Priority Mail on a 5 day a week schedule. Saturday deliver should be cut immediately. Simple cuts made intelligently could help right the ship.
 
The point in fed ex is they saw a rather large decrease in profits. Pretty much in line with the usps. Yeah, usps losses resulted in a bigger deficit. Because they didnt start in the black.
If it is a standard legal definition that a loan cannot be classified as a capital contribution, how come neither definition linked states that. The article you linked to doesnt state it either.

You can mail a letter to any address in the nation, and it will be delivered.
 
PerfectHorizon said:
The postal service would be better served to deliver regular mail on a limited schedule, say Monday, Wednesday and Friday. The could continue to deliver Priority Mail on a 5 day a week schedule. Saturday deliver should be cut immediately. Simple cuts made intelligently could help right the ship.
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Agreed
 
[QUOTE =byteware;2293812]Yes... because when the USPS is losing 10 times that much each quarter... this really makes your case.

And FYI, Fed Ex has money in the bank to cover these periods of losses, the USPS is currently $13+ Billion in the red...[/QUOTE]
The usps didnt have money in the bank to cover their losses, because they are legally forbidden to make any profit to put in the bank. Thats why they needed a loan.
 
nlsme said:
The point in fed ex is they saw a rather large decrease in profits. Pretty much in line with the usps. Yeah, usps losses resulted in a bigger deficit. Because they didnt start in the black.
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USPS started in the black as well.... however, they've seen ever mounting deficits every single year...

nlsme said:
If it is a standard legal definition that a loan cannot be classified as a capital contribution, how come neither definition linked states that. The article you linked to doesnt state it either.
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Obviously then, you didn't even read it.

The links we both referenced were defining a Capital Contribution. They didn't state that it couldn't be a car either.

What Is a "Capital Contribution?" How Does It Work?

Notice.. this isn't a loan.

nlsme said:
You can mail a letter to any address in the nation, and it will be delivered.
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I honestly thought you would at least accept that the USPS was more of an authority on THAT than you.
 
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