This is why I say you show yourself as the type that automatically equates government with bad. If"the best they can do" is a "failure".
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Postal Service Discussion
- Thread starter nlsme
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This is why I say you show yourself as the type that automatically equates government with bad. If"the best they can do" is a "failure".
3devious
Android Expert
Can I blame Phases, then? He at least was a mod at some point. Sorry about basically saying "You aren't really inviting discussion if you really just wanted to lay down a statement."
To answer post #2227432: The validity I see in post #2217740 was the part about providing a vital service to the American taxpayer. Your mileage may vary on the rest of it.
I'd argue that the rest of it is pretty much the core of the dispute here.
3devious
Android Expert
I guess it would be if what is going on at the USPS is the best that our government can do.
I think there are a few things the government does better than the USPS, but those things aren't going to change even if they do manage to fail. Those activities aren't in the same realm of the USPS's mission nor do they have any offerings in the private sector.
He said it was the best they can do. I said it is an example of what they do right. In the context of providing a vital service, to all Americans,with uniform rates, at minimum* cost to taxpayers. And just to put this out there, there is nobody in the private sector that will deliver to all americans. Usps is still the only option for some americans. Some americans dont have phones, let alone internet.
3devious
Android Expert
I can't acknowledge the example of what we do right or the at a minimum to taxpayers part, but I'll give you the vital part.
You always have another option unless that option is illegal. You can get something delivered from anywhere to anywhere if you pay enough for it. While you may not get a good deal, you can't say that there isn't another option unless you live in a prison or something. You can get any legal service you want and some illegal services if you pay for them, so there are always options just not always good options.
Until the USPS is sustainable it isn't an example of what we're doing right. It is only something we did right. With the adjustments that are supposed to be taking place, it is something "we hope we'll do right again."
We've supposedly been the champions of freedom and equality for over 200 years but everyone says "Whoa, hold up slick, you used to be into freedom, equality and all that but what about 'Blood for Oil,' the oppression of homosexuals and your international hegemony!? You @#^@#*@ers are the worst!" Oh, but we're working on it! We're moving forward in the direction of engaging the world with "mutual interest and mutual respect!" I don't buy it either.
We can't go around saying that we're good and just in the international arena if we aren't yet. (OK, well some of us do, but we're just as incorrect as you are.) We can't say that we're doing it right if we aren't yet. I tried putting that on a banner but got in trouble. Something or other about morale...
You always have another option unless that option is illegal. You can get something delivered from anywhere to anywhere if you pay enough for it. While you may not get a good deal, you can't say that there isn't another option unless you live in a prison or something. You can get any legal service you want and some illegal services if you pay for them, so there are always options just not always good options.
Until the USPS is sustainable it isn't an example of what we're doing right. It is only something we did right. With the adjustments that are supposed to be taking place, it is something "we hope we'll do right again."
We've supposedly been the champions of freedom and equality for over 200 years but everyone says "Whoa, hold up slick, you used to be into freedom, equality and all that but what about 'Blood for Oil,' the oppression of homosexuals and your international hegemony!? You @#^@#*@ers are the worst!" Oh, but we're working on it! We're moving forward in the direction of engaging the world with "mutual interest and mutual respect!" I don't buy it either.
We can't go around saying that we're good and just in the international arena if we aren't yet. (OK, well some of us do, but we're just as incorrect as you are.) We can't say that we're doing it right if we aren't yet. I tried putting that on a banner but got in trouble. Something or other about morale...
So, you too feel a few years of bad budgets negates 200 years of service. Guess we will have to agree to disagree. I just see it as now is one of the times a rate increase is needed. Bringing the rate to 50 cents will ERASE the deficit in ONE YEAR.
No. I can see validity to this statement:
"They are a shining example of the BEST the government can do.
The USPS doesn't even think a rate increase will fix things, but only prolong financial collapse.
That like saying, if the demand for welfare went away, the Gov should get in the grocery store business to keep the institution going.
Why look for a void to fill, to keep an inefficient institution running? If its original need isn't there anymore get rid of the thing and let private companies worry about market voids.
The best they can do, has failed.
Politicians are slow to make decisions, and when they do, those laws that are required for those decisions are hopelessly skewed with useless junk that has no business being attached to the same bill.
Efficiency, and cost effectiveness are two things the government is not.
Does the Post Office provide a service? Yes. If that is the only standard that you use to judge if it's done right, then every government agency is an example of what it does right.
Is this kind of bureaucracy what you want running your health care? No, not at all. Health Care costs will skyrocket, or care will plummet. Either way, it's not something you want happening.
You want government doing what only it can do, and you want the rest left up to private industry.
Please link to them making that statement. I see them saying they dont want to resolve it entirely by rate increases, but have yet to see them say rate increases wouldnt fix it. They project a 2 cent increase would raise revenue by 2.8 billion, in 3 quarters. Multiply that by five, and again the deficit would dissapear in a year.As far as the need, Id say the need is still very strong. As evidenced by the 177 billion pieces delivered.
How can care plummet. Especially to those that can't afford healthcare. As far as rising costs, I pay 1800 a month for insurance. I paid less last year, by a large margin. Healthcare costs ARE skyrocketing. Why? Because I am footing the bill for those that can't afford it now. Only, that bill is larger then it needs to be. Preventative care is a LOT cheaper than crirical care.
you will continue to foot that bill as if people cant afford it the goverment will provide it, or subsidize it for them, that money will come from new taxes.
now i have a pet peeve on insurace, thats family plans
if you are a family w/ 1 child and pay 1000 a month
another family with 5 children usually pays the same amount
thats 3 people vs 7. here is 1 inconsistany that should be addressed, i should not have to help pay your costs
I veiw healthcare in the same manner as roads. It should be considered infrastructure. As such, the morning commute coms back into play. Does your commute cost more to you as it does to your neighbors? Even though your commute costs more to the taxpayer. Or the school theory, your neighbor has no kids, but pays the same to the schools.
And the costs associated with those people will fall. Because, they will have access to preventative care. That lump will be taken care of long before it is something that will cost 1000 times as much.
and i still say i do pay more for my cammute via gas tax if i drive further
and insurance is not infrastructure, its private business. if the goverment wants to sell insurance to those that dont buy it, then let them
talk to any doctor, the goverment does not pay them jack, so thay have to raise the price to the private companies.
doubtful, it will go up, it already is
heres a question
why are certain corps/unions being granted waivers?
if its so great why doesnt congress ditch what they have and opt into one of the plans it offers?
So you are saying the costs of preventative care are more then the costs of critical care? Or, are you saying access to preventative care will make no differance in the costs of critical care? The costs are rising, because people dont receive preventative care. Instead, they receive care only when it has become critical. Putting someone on an aspirin regiment cost a lot less then a tripple bypass. Telling somone their bloodtests show their kidney will fail, if they dont reduce their potassium intake isnt lowered costs a lot less then waiting for it to fail. At wich point, one diallysis treatment costs more then the preventative treatment. And, thats every other day. Let alone a transplant. The only thing that can be denied is preventative care. Everything else, the costs merely get passed down the road.
And what exactly are you talkibg about. If it is "Obama care", I would like to say the only people that helps, are those in the inscurance industry. And in no way shape or form do I like it.
Ok, 7 pages of post office blabber, I've wasted too much time here.
First, if you rasie the rate too much, people use the mail less, which means less profits, which means you have to raise the rate again, less mail, raise rate, etc. until collapse.
"Overhaul" means more than a rate increase.
Thats what byteware points to as cause the "failure" of the USPS. They can't take the steps they need to get things in line. Which makes it hard to run a profitable business.
I agree with that, but I will take some losses as long as its fulfilling a vital need, that can't be filled by the market. I think its time to start asking, do we still need to support the post office (3b a year in capital contributions) in its current form? Could that need be better filled by private industry? maybe the USPS just becomes a oversight agency that makes sure private industry carries out mail delivery services properly?
Ruth Goldway, chairman of the Postal Regulatory Commission,.
I think the USPS problems stem more from being milked by unions. See above.
First, if you rasie the rate too much, people use the mail less, which means less profits, which means you have to raise the rate again, less mail, raise rate, etc. until collapse.
"Overhaul" means more than a rate increase.
Thats what byteware points to as cause the "failure" of the USPS. They can't take the steps they need to get things in line. Which makes it hard to run a profitable business.
I agree with that, but I will take some losses as long as its fulfilling a vital need, that can't be filled by the market. I think its time to start asking, do we still need to support the post office (3b a year in capital contributions) in its current form? Could that need be better filled by private industry? maybe the USPS just becomes a oversight agency that makes sure private industry carries out mail delivery services properly?
Panel rejects Post Office plea for 2-cent increase | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon - Portland, Oregon | Business
Ruth Goldway, chairman of the Postal Regulatory Commission,.
I think the USPS problems stem more from being milked by unions. See above.
They have always been slow to react. He is arguing failure due to their budget. Im not saying raise rates to cure other problems. Merely showing a rather small rate increase COULD bring their budget in line. They have reduced their costs on average a billion dollars a year since 2001. They reduced their work hours by 114,000,000hrs. Yhe equivelant of 65,000 full time employees in 2009. They are in the middle of their retructoring. II pointed this out pages ago.
No one is saying that them failing now negates 200 years of service. All anyone is saying is... they are failing now.
As Cipher has pointed out...
Raising the rates, means a slightly bigger drop in mail usage.
What's more, junk mail and other political advertising are starting to move away from using the US mail. There was no uptick last year heading into the elections, and there was no uptick heading into Christmas.
People are no longer using the mail the way they once did. No matter how much you raise rates, you aren't going to recover that income.
They are projecting first class mail to be at half of it's current rate by 2020. That means the postal rate would have to double in order to make up that lost revenue (and first class mail is the MOST profitable mail the USPS delivers).
All this adds up to one thing, the USPS's current model is broken. They cannot continue doing what they've done and be profitable, and no matter how much they raise rates, that isn't going to change.
Bah, they are not suppose to be profitable. Along with rate changes, comes cost cutting. They have trimmed a billion dollars a year on average since 2001. They cut 114,000,000 man hours in 2009. Thats the equivelant of 65,000 jobs. They arent failing. They are simply running a deficit. Not their first time running a deficit. As far as volume, they peaked 4 years ago. Not 40. They will be fine, as always.
Bah, they are not supposed to be bankrupt either.
And yet, for fiscal year 2010... They lost over $8 Billion. And that's WITH the $3 Billion from the government. Without that money they would be around $30 Billion in the red, already.
And in fiscal year 2010... They lost over $8 Billion. Their losses are getting worse, not better.
When you are losing $5 Billion more each year than you did the year before... that's failing.
GM wasn't in trouble. They didn't deserve bankruptcy... They were just running a deficit.
There comes a point when you've done a great deal of cost cutting, and STILL lost $11 Billion ($8 Billion lost, plus the $3 Billion the government gave them).
They are as solid as Lehman Brothers. Always been here. Never going anywhere...
Oh wait.