TheBeardedMann
Well-Known Member
My health insurance comes out pre-tax on my check, but if it wasn't, I can claim the monthly health insurance premium on my taxes the next year. And any expenses I pay for during the year can be claimed.
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Racism...
- Thread starter TheBeardedMann
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My health insurance comes out pre-tax on my check, but if it wasn't, I can claim the monthly health insurance premium on my taxes the next year. And any expenses I pay for during the year can be claimed.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Oh really?
In 2008 and 2009, the average $43,587 per year for nonresidents while the average private medical school cost cost $41,225 per year, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges.
Education:
It typically takes four years of undergraduate school to obtain your Bachelor's, followed by an additional 4 years of medical school and several years of internship before you can use the title of M.D. On average, it can take up to 12 years to reach this goal. Keep in mind that doctors are always required to participate in ongoing education to make sure their wellspring of knowledge is current. They have to attend yearly classes, in-services training, and seminars. To be 100 percent truthful, even after you get your medical degree you never finish with school. It is always an ongoing process. Check with your state's medical board or local college to find out exactly how long it takes to become certified in your state; each state varies, although not by much.
Now add the continuing education costs, the interest on his school loans, and you have a whopping figure.
The American Medical Association' annual physician income survey shows that, an average, doctors are making close to $200,000 a year.
Now the math. (Rough estimates)
So let's take a look at costs:
$43,587 x 12 = $523,044 - Education costs.
According to the AMA, it takes approximately 11 years for a doctor to pay back his student loans, on average.
The lowest current APR from sallie mae (industry leader for student loans) is 9.11%.
Plug in the numbers here and you get a Monthly cost of $6287.84. This still doesn't include malpractice insurance.
$6287.84 x 144 months = a total of $905,328 total loan costs.
Once again, still not including ongoing education (required by law) and malpractice insurance(also required by law).
Malpractice: According to the AMA, the average cost for malpractice insurance is a whopping $70,000 per year. Now to be fair, in public institutions, the hospital usually has a blanket policy, so the doctor doesn't pay it, but they have a lower mean salary than a private doctor.
Continuing education: Haven't really nailed this one down yet, numbers are all over the place, for different specialties, but it was all pretty much in the $500/year range. Not too bad.
So over 11 years, $5,500 is added to $829,994.88, making $835,494.88.
Now the income. $200,000. After deductions, taxes, and the like, the average NET income of a doctor is $150,000/yr.
Not bad right?
So according to these numbers, $905,328/$150,000 ~=~ A little over 6 years, to completely make the money back spent on loans. That's when you hit profit point, this still doesn't include other associated costs I haven't thought of.
So, after 25-27 years of schooling/training, You finally get a real paycheck. Woohoo right? So your at approximately age 36/37 when you have all that paid off (not inlcuding living costs, etc, which is why it takes on average 12 years to completely pay it off) , and that's assuming you start a paid position as soon as you get done with school/training, which isn't always the case.
This article puts a nice little perspective on it, how a freakin' UPS driver can potentially earn the same as a doctor when it comes to lifetime earnings, and even more if he's smart with his money.
A Novel Look at Physician Income: Why a medical career is the wrong career if money is one of your primary motives
So after devoting 25 years, over 1/3 of thier life to just training & education, putting themselves at higher risk to catch deadly diseases, and devoting the rest of their lives to ongoing education, they deserve every ****ing penny they get paid, and deserve more.
So throw in living expenses, etc, and he/she will easily be at the age of 50 before seeing any of that money add up.
In 2008 and 2009, the average $43,587 per year for nonresidents while the average private medical school cost cost $41,225 per year, according to the Association of American Medical Colleges.
Education:
It typically takes four years of undergraduate school to obtain your Bachelor's, followed by an additional 4 years of medical school and several years of internship before you can use the title of M.D. On average, it can take up to 12 years to reach this goal. Keep in mind that doctors are always required to participate in ongoing education to make sure their wellspring of knowledge is current. They have to attend yearly classes, in-services training, and seminars. To be 100 percent truthful, even after you get your medical degree you never finish with school. It is always an ongoing process. Check with your state's medical board or local college to find out exactly how long it takes to become certified in your state; each state varies, although not by much.
Now add the continuing education costs, the interest on his school loans, and you have a whopping figure.
The American Medical Association' annual physician income survey shows that, an average, doctors are making close to $200,000 a year.
Now the math. (Rough estimates)
So let's take a look at costs:
$43,587 x 12 = $523,044 - Education costs.
According to the AMA, it takes approximately 11 years for a doctor to pay back his student loans, on average.
The lowest current APR from sallie mae (industry leader for student loans) is 9.11%.
Plug in the numbers here and you get a Monthly cost of $6287.84. This still doesn't include malpractice insurance.
$6287.84 x 144 months = a total of $905,328 total loan costs.
Once again, still not including ongoing education (required by law) and malpractice insurance(also required by law).
Malpractice: According to the AMA, the average cost for malpractice insurance is a whopping $70,000 per year. Now to be fair, in public institutions, the hospital usually has a blanket policy, so the doctor doesn't pay it, but they have a lower mean salary than a private doctor.
Continuing education: Haven't really nailed this one down yet, numbers are all over the place, for different specialties, but it was all pretty much in the $500/year range. Not too bad.
So over 11 years, $5,500 is added to $829,994.88, making $835,494.88.
Now the income. $200,000. After deductions, taxes, and the like, the average NET income of a doctor is $150,000/yr.
Not bad right?
So according to these numbers, $905,328/$150,000 ~=~ A little over 6 years, to completely make the money back spent on loans. That's when you hit profit point, this still doesn't include other associated costs I haven't thought of.
So, after 25-27 years of schooling/training, You finally get a real paycheck. Woohoo right? So your at approximately age 36/37 when you have all that paid off (not inlcuding living costs, etc, which is why it takes on average 12 years to completely pay it off) , and that's assuming you start a paid position as soon as you get done with school/training, which isn't always the case.
This article puts a nice little perspective on it, how a freakin' UPS driver can potentially earn the same as a doctor when it comes to lifetime earnings, and even more if he's smart with his money.
A Novel Look at Physician Income: Why a medical career is the wrong career if money is one of your primary motives
So after devoting 25 years, over 1/3 of thier life to just training & education, putting themselves at higher risk to catch deadly diseases, and devoting the rest of their lives to ongoing education, they deserve every ****ing penny they get paid, and deserve more.
So throw in living expenses, etc, and he/she will easily be at the age of 50 before seeing any of that money add up.
hakr100
Android Expert
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Yep, so your "experience" is better than the AMA findings.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
ddoolin said:
Where do you think this "basic" medical care came from? Think it popped up for free? No, it took years upon years of guess what? Research.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/health/policy/27care.html?_r=1
ddoolin said:
How do you propose this? Cut the salaries of the teachers?
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
No student loans...academic scholarships and fellowships the whole way through. It pays to be really, really smart.
Too bad it doesn't run in the family. And it obviously isn't a feasible means to educate enough doctors, because without incoming money, how do you thing medical schools would survive?
I do think the use of the N word makes it easier for racist people to back up their racism. "If they call themselves the N word, why can't I." But I think that is a very minute part of the problem. And black people were calling each other the N word way before rap music became popular, although rap music has taken it to another level.
I agree. Its totally not the same thing and I can't believe someone would try to say different. I'm Black and i live in a predominantly white area and never once has my son said something racist because of his "instinctual tendency to distrust the unfamiliar." He's curious tho. One time he saw an interracial couple and questioned me on it, but he didn't say "I can't believe that Black man is with a White woman, that is wrong." He asked me why they are together which gave me the chance to explain that when two people love each other they can be together no matter what color they are. He hasn't made mention of it since.
Its the parents that would take that question and turn it into something ugly and racist that are the main culprits.
mrqs
Android Expert
see this here is why i replied in the first place - there was no lack of clarity
yes, grammatically speaking the post could be interpreted wrongly, but no one's that stupid
and what about those who can't afford it?
like i said:
without the instinct, your son wouldn't have asked that question
from observing people, he had categorized the black and the white as two different groups in his brain and seeing the interracial couple contradicted that categorization
and when a person has a bad experience with someone, if that someone seems alien to them, they're prone to form a prejudice towards people like that because of the instinctual tendency to distrust the unfamiliar
This is simply not true IOWA. I've asked you time and time again to show specific proof of this, you've not attempted to do so, but continue to make false and unsupported accusations about me.
You've also failed to offer any answer to the perfectly reasonable requests to back up the claims you made; instead, in this thread, deciding to start making bogus accusations and attacks in place of actual discussion.
Thanks
Another totally moronic attack.
The UK system is not 'rationed'*; it's available to all, free at the point of use. If people want private healthcare, as is the norm in the US from my understanding, they can have that also. It seems to me that the UK system is the same as the US with the addition of free healthcare(at a bloody good standard from my experience) for all.
As for the argument regarding doctors incomes; it seems to me that the UK doctors are far better off than their US counter-parts if your figures are to be believed. Which makes me wonder how that fits with your argument:
If UK doctors are better off under the 'socialist' system you dislike, how does that correlate with your argument above that such a system would put of the worse off doctors under your preferred 'capitalist' system.
Anatomy isn't my specialty, but that does seems arse about tit!
*at least not in the any way I'd use the word, but you may mean rationed in as much as medical procedures are only given to those in need, and not everybody gets a new heart regardless??
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
This is simply not true IOWA. I've asked you time and time again to show specific proof of this, you've not attempted to do so, but continue to make false and unsupported accusations about me.
You've also failed to offer any answer to the perfectly reasonable requests to back up the claims you made; instead, in this thread, deciding to start making bogus accusations and attacks in place of actual discussion.
Thanks
Another totally moronic attack.
Your the one who made the first strike(in every thread we've argued, I present facts, you call me a liar. Don't they teach you anything about morality where your from?), burden of proof is on you kiddo. Unless you somehow prove that I've lied anywhere on this forum, and proof that you've posted said proof, you sir, are nothing but a bold-faced liar. And since you can't prove I've lied about anything, well, your screwed.
mrqs said:
Exactly. And this is where nurture comes into play. A good person/parent, would relieve his sons/daughters worries/confusion by re-assuring him the inter-racial couple is not a bad thing. A bad one, will leave his son/daughter to form his own conclusion, and the worst, will teach racism. We can only over come our primal instincts through education, and that's what is the best part about being human, is that we can learn to overpower, control, and even submerge our most primal natures.
mpw said:
And if it wasn't for American(And other capitalist countries) research, under a capitalist system, your country (or the world for that matter) wouldn't have half the drugs, treatments, and knowledge we have today.
WTF? Where?(don't bother, see below) in this thread it was your, now deleted, post that started this argument. Maybe if you'd just answered the questions you were asked to back-up the claim I disagreed with this thread would've turned out more positive, but you didn't/couldn't, so instead just went with unfounded attacks and accusations.
Sorry IOWA, but without the little blue box to link to where I said this I'm having difficulty in finding where I wrote it to understand why you're quoting it in context. Care to show me? or did you just attribute the quote to me, without me needing to actually have said it?
May I suggest we draw a line under this, as you clearly are not prepared to do as I have done in the past and back-up you claims (I would suggest because you can't) I won't go back over your previous lies, and you can quit with the unfounded accusations, insults and lies about me.
Which was in reply to your post that has been deleted
Did you forget making that post IOWA, or just trying to misdirect your readers, again?
EDIT: And I have more than once said I will not exchange PMs with you, so PLEASE stop sending abuse to me in private.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
Which was in reply to your post that has been deleted
Did you forget making that post IOWA, or just trying to misdirect your readers, again?
EDIT: And I have more than once said I will not exchange PMs with you, so PLEASE stop sending abuse to me in private.
Uh huh.
You won't exchange PM's because you just want to grandstand and start fights over the internet.
Your the original accuser, still, so the burden of proof lies with you, still. Put up, or shut up. GG.
hakr100
Android Expert
You do realize that your attitude, accusations and name calling aimed at other posters here have lost you yet another argument, right? This is a semi-public forum, and it has readers who are not interested or entertained by these sorts of displays.
It's perfectly acceptable to call Sarah Palin the dumbest wannabe candidate on the face of the earth. It's not acceptable to call another poster here names. At least that is my understanding of "the rules."
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
You do realize that your attitude, accusations and name calling aimed at other posters here have lost you yet another argument, right? This is a semi-public forum, and it has readers who are not interested or entertained by these sorts of displays.
It's perfectly acceptable to call Sarah Palin the dumbest wannabe candidate on the face of the earth. It's not acceptable to call another poster here names. At least that is my understanding of "the rules."
Tell that to the person calling me a liar.
I haven't lost many argument on here, and I'm willing to bet I can count the one's where I've actually "lost" or conceded on one hand. Not bad for 4k posts.
You on the other hand, I've proven wrong a few times in this thread alone, and several other threads, and you only have 513 posts. Good day, sir.
hakr100
Android Expert
You haven't lost many arguments here, eh? Says who? You?
Self-praise is no praise at all.
As for your comment about me...well, I simply don't accept your conclusion. You haven't proven a thing other than you have the ability to make long, argumentative posts, most of which I don't read because, well, they are long and argumentative and often devolve into name calling.
Have a nice day.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
You haven't lost many arguments here, eh? Says who? You?
Self-praise is no praise at all.
As for your comment about me...well, I simply don't accept your conclusion. You haven't proven a thing other than you have the ability to make long, argumentative posts, most of which I don't read because, well, they are long and argumentative and often devolve into name calling.
Have a nice day.
Yep, because all that science and facts just bore you to death, and you'd rather make up your sources, i.e. "familial experience".
Argumentative? Well, so are you, take a look in the mirror son.
hakr100
Android Expert
"Familial experience" is not a source...she's a relative.
Science and facts don't bore me, but your posts do, because they are long and argumentative...and usually full of petty insults.
You should consider moving on...you're not going to convince me you are erudite.
IOWA
Mr. Logic Pants
IOWA said:
"My family sayz so, so it must be true!"
vs
"Well here's what the A.M.A. and other scientific organizations say on the matter" Hmm.. which is more believable... I wonder.
and
"Even though the science and evidence IOWA posted says I'm wrong, I must still be right, becuz I sayz so!"
.
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