OutofDate1980
Android Expert
No problem, but they should not get any tax exemption.
Even Romney stated in 1994 Boy Scouts should be open to all,
-
After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.
Regarding Scientology...
- Thread starter Gmash
- Start date
No problem, but they should not get any tax exemption.
Even Romney stated in 1994 Boy Scouts should be open to all,
kool kat2
Android Expert
I was neither. Where i work we have eagle scouts come in every year to work on a project to improve out shelter. They are polite, do a good job, and have fun. I don't see how throwing a gay person in the mix would jeopardize that, unless a scout has been fed the hate at home, in wich case it should be part of being a scout of any kind to learn tolerance and acceptance.
You say there are reasons, but are any valid? I dont see homophobia being a good reason.
Unfortunately i agree that private organizations should pick and choose. That doesn't make it right though.
Next up, Boy scouts of America no longer accepting gingers in the organization. It is their right and they have valid reasons.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Get dirt on your opponent, then have a friendly private chat. Can't think Scientology invented this tactic.
Scientology's Puzzling Journey From Tax Rebel to Tax Exempt - New York Times
"*Scientology's lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities, according to interviews and documents. One investigator said he had interviewed tenants in buildings owned by three I.R.S. officials, looking for housing code violations. He also said he had taken documents from an I.R.S. conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of I.R.S. whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly.
*The decision to negotiate with the church came after Fred T. Goldberg Jr., the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service at the time, had an unusual meeting with Mr. Miscavige in 1991. Scientology's own version of what occurred offers a remarkable account of how the church leader walked into I.R.S. headquarters without an appointment and got in to see Mr. Goldberg, the nation's top tax official. Mr. Miscavige offered to call a halt to Scientology's suits against the I.R.S. in exchange for tax exemptions."
Scientology's Puzzling Journey From Tax Rebel to Tax Exempt - New York Times
"*Scientology's lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities, according to interviews and documents. One investigator said he had interviewed tenants in buildings owned by three I.R.S. officials, looking for housing code violations. He also said he had taken documents from an I.R.S. conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of I.R.S. whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly.
*The decision to negotiate with the church came after Fred T. Goldberg Jr., the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service at the time, had an unusual meeting with Mr. Miscavige in 1991. Scientology's own version of what occurred offers a remarkable account of how the church leader walked into I.R.S. headquarters without an appointment and got in to see Mr. Goldberg, the nation's top tax official. Mr. Miscavige offered to call a halt to Scientology's suits against the I.R.S. in exchange for tax exemptions."
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.
kool kat2
Android Expert
Since you didn't exactly answer anything, im going to assume we're going with the God thing. Correct ?
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
No, just pointing out why the scouts do not want gay members. I say they have that right. Not everyone should have every right to join every group.
kool kat2
Android Expert
See, you should have just said so. But what you were pointing out was the line about God, was it not? If not, i don't see any other line....... unless the last line is what you're referring to. I doubt it was referring to sexual orientation though.
And i agree that singling out a group of people is within the rights of a private organization. If people support it, it is because they believe in what the organization does and stands for. Once people stop supporting them, that may make them budge. I dont see many people doing that.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
there is a deeply held belief that homosexuality is against God's wishes. You are the one bringing up God; I only posted the motto.
You simply cannot discriminate and stay out of court. This is wrong in my opinion. Private groups should dictate who gets in, period.
kool kat2
Android Expert
You posted the motto in response to me asking what resons there were to not allow gays in the boy scouts. I am simply asking if that was the reason.
And i am not a scout so i wouldn't know about the meaning of it. For all i know, the word god in there could be as significant as in the pledge of allegiance.
Gmash
Extreme Android User
Scientology is a truly ruthless organization. They will do anything they can to ruin the life of anybody who speaks out against them, and they have the money to back it up.Get dirt on your opponent, then have a friendly private chat. Can't think Scientology invented this tactic.
Scientology's Puzzling Journey From Tax Rebel to Tax Exempt - New York Times
"*Scientology's lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities, according to interviews and documents. One investigator said he had interviewed tenants in buildings owned by three I.R.S. officials, looking for housing code violations. He also said he had taken documents from an I.R.S. conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of I.R.S. whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly.
*The decision to negotiate with the church came after Fred T. Goldberg Jr., the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service at the time, had an unusual meeting with Mr. Miscavige in 1991. Scientology's own version of what occurred offers a remarkable account of how the church leader walked into I.R.S. headquarters without an appointment and got in to see Mr. Goldberg, the nation's top tax official. Mr. Miscavige offered to call a halt to Scientology's suits against the I.R.S. in exchange for tax exemptions."
Gmash
Extreme Android User
I actually agree with Bob Maxey on something? What in the name of Xenu is going on here?:hmmmm2::questionmark: lol
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Don't believe Scientology has a monopoly on these tactics, but to be effective, one must "have the money to back it up".
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Depends on the God if homosexuality is against God's wishes. I also understand divorce is against some Gods wishes. Does the BSA exclude them also ?
Anyway, if BSA was not tax exempt, then it would be a purely private matter.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Scientology is a fraud. Their Auditing and associated costs are designed to earn the "church" some big money. LRH was a science fiction writer who decided to create a fake religion. This is not a guess or a pile of BS; it is from is own words and comments he made to those who knew him.
Scientologists avoid mentioning this but facts are facts.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
There are those that state court records prove the Smith, the founder of LDS, was arrested in New York in 1826 for being a con artist and was killed by relatives of those women he attempted to induce into polygamy.
Many religions have a history that is not respectable to those not of the faith, some would call the LDS, Catholic, etc. a fraud.
It appears your point is that Scientology is a more recent fraud. Maybe age will give it more respectability and it will do some PR work such as charities.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
It would seem to me that the BSA is a lot more religious and nationalist than the rest of international scouting.
Its awfully backward but this seems to not be helped by its backers like the Mormons and other dodgy religious organisations. Clearly an organisation in need of reform, I came across this issue on r/soccer and was glad to see MLS cut all ties with them once they reaffirmed their homophobic stance.
Religion is a fairly meaningless part of scouting elsewhere, but it is there certainly, but religious affiliations have been heavily curtailed. Females are banned either, its really based on if you have a female leader available. Any other things like Scouts you can send your kids too?
Snow_Fox
Android Expert
From where I sit more or less all religion is dangerous be it Scientology or Christianity.
No matter what religion you worship you run into this delimma where you are accepting supernatural explanations for scientific answers which is really not a healthy thing to do.
In the case of Christianity alone you have
1 timothy 2:12 <-Sexism
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 <- more sexism
Exodus 21:20-21 <- straight up says you can beat slaves as much as you want as long as they don't die within a day or two.
I don't support scientology but, let's be real here.. religion as a whole says some whacky crap that people selectively listen to as an "easy out" for morality.
No matter what religion you worship you run into this delimma where you are accepting supernatural explanations for scientific answers which is really not a healthy thing to do.
In the case of Christianity alone you have
1 timothy 2:12 <-Sexism
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 <- more sexism
Exodus 21:20-21 <- straight up says you can beat slaves as much as you want as long as they don't die within a day or two.
I don't support scientology but, let's be real here.. religion as a whole says some whacky crap that people selectively listen to as an "easy out" for morality.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
The Boy Scouts also pretty blatantly discriminate on the basis on sex.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
So why would you want your little girl to join the Boy Scouts? Ever hear of the Girl Scouts?
Some groups should be allowed to discriminate.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Its hard to argue with this one, what with girl guides, and single sex schools. That said, mixed scouting is the norm and makes perfect sense. However the BSA is content to be left in the 1880's.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
So avoid the Boy Scouts altogether. If you do not like the way an organization operates or their values are not yours, do not let your kid join. I admire the BS but they are likely not the only group available for kids.
I sometimes feel that people like to protest against something they have no intentions of joining just because they want to ruin it for everyone else.
I am a member of a club that does not let certain types of people join. Those that wanted to join could not afford the tab and they would find few friends among the membership.
Still, one person sued to become a member when she had perhaps a dozen women's clubs she could have joined. She found zero friends, she broke several cardinal rules and she raised all manner of hell.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Fine, but don't expect the rest of us to pick up the tab. Just like the BSA, don't expect the rest of us to give you tax exemption because they do "not let certain types of people join." Pull your own weight.
OutofDate1980
Android Expert
Maybe Smith was half-right, he just mistakenly translated "polyandry" for "polygamy".
Multiple husbands serve as child support and life insurance in some cultures
"Marrying multiple husbands at the same time, or polyandry, creates a safety net for women in some cultures, according to a recent study by a University of Missouri researcher."
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
In this politically correct world we live in, lots of people would love to discriminate against this group or that group. Lots of talking heads, luminaries, Hollywood types, musicians and corporations both large and small, are forced to hire and/or accept certain types of people.
They would rather avoid some types but they can't because they are forced to do so. We are not living in a world where everyone is accepted; we live in a world where we want to look good to others and avoid lawsuits.