Rooting and Jailbreaking Illegal? Huh? What?

[dan330]

i just hate this crap!

 

[Bob Maxey]

I see a parallel between rooting and the mute button on a TV remote, which I frequently use to block the annoying sound of many of today's even more annoying product commercials. Next the special interest groups will want to outlaw muting TVs and blinking while sitting in front of one.

I watch some TV "On Demand" and I have noticed that the fast forward button is disabled. There is a warning at the beginning that tells you FF may be disabled. So I guess it has started.

 

[undacova]

The problem isn't the rooting or jailbreaking, it's what people do with them after the fact. Some like to steel Data from the carriers, which is how the carrier makes it's money.
This is why the carriers don't want people to root their phones.

Maybe they should find a better way to secure their network than to try and lock down our devices and try and tell us what we can or can not do with things we pay good money for. This will just draw criticism from legit consumers. I can't see it doing anything but hurting all that support it.

If you leave your car door open and engine running all the time, is it really stealing if someone sits down and shifts to drive? Thats basically what the carriers do with their piss poor attempt to secure the network.

They should just sell us however much bandwith they can actually afford and we can just do whatever the f*ck we want with our internet connection. I personally would take a slower speed over bullshit caps.

 

[MeepMeepChu]

I think you know that I think you're no one's fool.

And I agree, the law deals in details, so the exact wording is important. The purpose of law is justice and its mechanism is dispassion; without exact detail, dispassion is lost.

If the ruling is pulled, then we must all stand together and fight this, supporting those who would go to court on our behalf.

Freedom.

Why and how we moved into an era where our own government is trying to take it from us rather than protect us escapes me, but we've survived the trend before in our history, and now we'll have to fight again so we survive the threats again.

The way I see it, it's not the government trying to do any of this per se, but rather the interests of a few people who have the resources/money to hire a couple dozen lobbyists.
Most members of congress didn't grow up with the internet; they don't know what "Digital Media" even is. They also don't really have time to find out for themselves between other administrative duties so the only thing they do know about it is what they're told by people paid to lobby.
(The 'paid' part based on an assumption that someone who isn't paid is unlikely to have the resources to get granted an audience)

 

[Bob Maxey]

The way I see it, it's not the government trying to do any of this per se, but rather the interests of a few people who have the resources/money to hire a couple dozen lobbyists.
Most members of congress didn't grow up with the internet; they don't know what "Digital Media" even is. They also don't really have time to find out for themselves between other administrative duties so the only thing they do know about it is what they're told by people paid to lobby.
(The 'paid' part based on an assumption that someone who isn't paid is unlikely to have the resources to get granted an audience)

That is the way it has always been and how it must always be. If you think your rights are being violated, you do whatever you must and you seek redress. You use the government (Federal Court) to protect your absolute rights. I have no problem with that.

Some want a free and open Internet, where everything is possible. I maintain that is largely why we are here; we cannot be trusted to obey the law, so we are being keelhauled. The sea is deep and dangerous and filled with sharks; they will bite off your head as you are dragged along the keel.

When the government tries to do something, a group of people launch attacks against government web sites. They are protesting a new law or rule by violating other laws and rules. Metallica makes it a point to go after illegal downloaders and their "fans" turn against them. This is why we are in the mess we are in. I fully expect to see people going to jail.

I maintain the salad days are nearing an end. We require the net for everything and the sites we use are costly to maintain. Content is king and people are looking for ways to monetize the web. In my opinion, we are heading towards the end and when the net reemerges, it will be a far different place.

In my view and in my humble opinion, Apple (because I can only speak to Apple/Jailbreaking) sees a threat. As it is now, I can avoid Apple altogether. When you JB you often require copies of Apple's iOS firmware and you are using their iOS in ways Apple does not like and you often DL copies of iOS directly from Apple. Apple could stop this. In my view, Apple will try because Cydia is experiencing millions of visitors every week. When the untethered JB for iOS 5 arrived, millions of people downloaded the hack over the weekend. This likely did not go unnoticed by Apple and in my opinion, Apple will eventually take action.

You can avoid iTunes and consume only Cydia applications. Sadly, if you need or want apps from the Apple Store and you do not want to pay for them, you can DL them illegally. That is a serious problem, as evidenced by what File sharing sites are going through right now. Apple could do quite a bit to screw with the Jailbreakers. Your cell carrier could decide enough is enough and figure out a way to determine if you are tethering illegally. What happens if they cancel your account and you loose your phone number or they assess a charge that you must pay or you are put on a list and you cannot establish service with another carrier unless you pay the fine/charge/whatever?

Because you can avoid Apple altogether, Apple does not like that one bit. I can see their point. They can also see their point so they want Jailbreaking stopped. My fear is Jailbreaking will become illegal and Apple will start shutting down sites via the DMCA. All they need to do is shut a few down and other sites will stop because they fear going to jail.

Then what? Does this forum stop allowing us to discuss Rooting because it becomes illegal? We cannot discuss ROMS and where to DL them, so do we stop discussing rooting?

What is needed is more common sense. We need knowledgeable judges to toss some of these cases out the window. We need to revise the patent (and other) system and we need to find a way to keep the creators happy and profitable while stopping as much illegal activity as possible. Not sure there will be any way to keep both camps happy. I know I will go after anyone that makes my crap freely available. Not sure I can do much, but I can try to make examples of one or two people. Not being mean, it is my money we are talking about.

Thank God I still have my rotary dial phone and the Remington.

 

[EarlyMon]

I watch some TV "On Demand" and I have noticed that the fast forward button is disabled. There is a warning at the beginning that tells you FF may be disabled. So I guess it has started.

The advertising industry has actually lobbied to make FF on DVRs illegal. They lost, but will be back. Shortly after that, some started experimenting with s.l.o.w. commericials that look right when run at high speed, or with constant banners that will stay plastered when fast forwarding. And they really hate the 30-second jump button on so many set top boxes.

By the way - just a note, did everyone see our site announcement today? No need to discuss here, it's maybe not directly related, just putting out the word.

Anyway, back on topic - given how many legislators must have IT support, I wonder how many can really relate to losing admin rights on a PC as the equivalent lock in on a smartphone or tablet?

 

[BlastGT1]

"Stealing data" can be done whether or not it is legal to root a phone, and that theft of data in and of itself is illegal. You don't even need to have root to program a phone and clone an ESN.

 

[Zoandroid]

Interesting changes to the tethering policy, but I agree with the reasoning.

The issue of this thread, dealing with rooting, is unfortunately going to get bound together with the actually unrelated illegal activies Bob addressed above. Just because we want admin rights to our OS doesn't automatically mean we intend to illegally tether or install illegal software. I hope as all the SOPA-PIPA type issues get regurgitated after, and maybe during, the election year, they don't somehow compare rooting to harboring illegal files. These are 2 different topics entirely, but the reasons the carriers will toss up against rooting will invariably include the gray areas around piracy. Especially if they get it stuck in their minds that the "only" reason for rooting is to illegally tether wifi. Someone will surely try to say that along the way. All of us who have rooted devices know there are a plethora of reasons to root, and only one of them is the possibility of wifi tethering outside of a carrier TOS. It's a lot like attempted handgun control, where the proponets think the "only" purpose of a handgun is to commit crime.

Every tool comes with responsibilities. You can commit crimes with your bare hands, but that doesn't mean everyone should be handcuffed. Yet that is a good example of what these special interest groups are trying to do to us.

If the day ever comes when they do away with the FF feature in DVRs, that's the day my VCR will go back into service. Or, god forbid, we could stop watching broadcast TV altogether. We wouldn't really be missing much these days anyway. I know several people who have 'cut the cable' already and no longer watch live programming.

 

[zuben el genub]

Once you have an IT department to do everything for you, you lose the capacity to think about what you are doing. My engineer worked for a defense contractor - he got so used to the security policy and help provided by IT, he was at a loss when he didn't have it.

We watch OTA TV - never had cable. Mostly PBS and sports. I do record stuff but only for background when nothing else is on.

I've read that some congresscritters want the list of all constituents' cell phones.
I would hope not.

Along with being pests, these idiots would think that certain software and rooting would deprive them of a captive audience. How dare we block their calls or refuse email and text?

Most of them have a web or FB page. I can read the spoutings there.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Interesting changes to the tethering policy, but I agree with the reasoning.

I am avoiding it like the plague because once I focus, I'll be avoided like the plague. My last comment here about that.

 

[EarlyMon]

To own a PC is to own the potential to violate copyrights.

To own an unrooted Android already provides that same ability.

So, rooting isn't about copyright or illegal or immoral activities.

But they want the issues all mashed together, the better to scream, think of the children.

It's all shenanigans.

 

[Bob Maxey]

To own a PC is to own the potential to violate copyrights.

To own an unrooted Android already provides that same ability.

So, rooting isn't about copyright or illegal or immoral activities.

But they want the issues all mashed together, the better to scream, think of the children.

It's all shenanigans.

I do think of the children . . . why do you think we are here? Smiley.

Children should be seen and not Internet Enabled.

Smiley!

 

[mikedt]

Never mind battery - how about data charges? Posts all over cell phone fora about social type apps using data when they shouldn't be. Push ads would use data, too.
You don't use data - the carrier doesn't make money by overages or a larger data plan

Yeh, there's data charges as well for this useless social networking junk. But what was apparently happening with my friend's LG he bought from PCCW in HK, was that the FB thing was fruitlessly trying to access FB in the Mainland, where FB is blocked and it wouldn't take no for an answer, so it was hanging. The phone even had a large immovable useless FB widget on the home screen, until we rooted it and changed the ROM.

 

[9to5cynic]

I see a parallel between rooting and the mute button on a TV remote, which I frequently use to block the annoying sound of many of today's even more annoying product commercials. Next the special interest groups will want to outlaw muting TVs and blinking while sitting in front of one.

I also mute annoying commercials. Everyone thinks it's strange...

www.jailbreakingisnotacrime.org is down for me, is it up for anyone else?

It's working for me now... and I was just ready to say something along the lines of "Uh oh! Carriers are DDoSing rooting sites now!".... which -- maybe they were ..? 0_o


Also, I think this is a very poor decision. Simply means I can do with my device what I will. If I want to edit my host file to avoid annoying and potentially dangerous sites, that is my business. I won't complain when I can't load youtube (which come on, youtube would still work, just as an example though)...

I could easily do countless illegal things on my computer, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have administrative access to that.

I guess I just don't get this. I'm out of step with their mentality on this one.

 

[argedion]

I think the thing we need to do as a community is to educate our politicians on the issue. We must explain to them how rooting the phone is no more "illegal" than putting seat covers in your car. I mean imagine if you will if car companies fought to make that kind of thing illegal. I rooted my phone to simply get rid of bloatware that I do not want. I have not tethered my phone nor do I have plans to.

I paid for this phone much like I paid for my car. If I can put an after market alternator in my car then why can't I change the ROM on my phone?

 

[EarlyMon]

I say we try to educate them that we'll remove them from office if they don't stop this nonsense.

I don't like the idea of teaching them what I use my phone for or why I want root. It's none of their business. HTC already assists its customers wanting to get in and root. Samsung makes it easy on purpose and hired the lead from CyanogenMod to work on their phone software. If the longest Android producer and the largest Android producer both haven't had a problem until now, then it's not a problem, period, and we demand protection from special interests.

 

[zuben el genub]

You won't educate most of them. I can name at least one who would be outraged if we denied his access to anything of ours like a phone. He's too important. I can block on my cell, and before blocking, there was always a silent ring. GV can block text. He managed to get one email addy and I can't get rid of him.

I am paying for more data than I use. Just in case. It's also a fairly low cost plan. I've rooted and do have updates unless over wifi selected, and only 3 paid apps allowed to update automatically, data roaming turned off, but with mountainous terrain you never know.

 

[Zoandroid]

I also mute annoying commercials. Everyone thinks it's strange...

It's working for me now... and I was just ready to say something along the lines of "Uh oh! Carriers are DDoSing rooting sites now!".... which -- maybe they were ..? 0_o


Also, I think this is a very poor decision. Simply means I can do with my device what I will. If I want to edit my host file to avoid annoying and potentially dangerous sites, that is my business. I won't complain when I can't load youtube (which come on, youtube would still work, just as an example though)...

I could easily do countless illegal things on my computer, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have administrative access to that.

I guess I just don't get this. I'm out of step with their mentality on this one.

As I see it, the issue comes down to control. These product vendors and advertisers seem to be deluded into thinking if they expose us long enough to their crappy products and annoying marketing that we'll all turn into Lemmings and gladly fork over our money. It's just like TBS trying to tekl everyone that their programming is 'very funny' (rather than seeing it for what it is....... insert your chosen adjective). There seems to be an ever increasing tendency to use Apple's "walled garden" business model, trying to tell us what to want and to just live with it. I can't speak for others, but when a businees tries that with me I simply boycott all their products. The more annoying a commercial gets, the more I would never buy their product even if it was the last one on Earth. I would like to hope some other people feel the same way.

 

[zuben el genub]

You are not alone - I will boycott, too. We started muting commercials about 30 years ago with a volume knob. Since we are OTA - who's to know?

I've boycotted cable for years. I only want MLB and NFL. I don't care for regional rules.

I know I'd pay for them, but I could never convince the local cable co that I DON'T WANT a movie channel . Movies bore me and I don't sit still long enough. Some twit said I was un-American. I haven't been in a commercial movie theater since Star Trek 4. The exception is anything scientific at an Imax.

I've boycotted Wally World since they didn't know how to take care of fish when they had a pet department.

I'd flat out tell TBS that the only good thing is the Braves and that's all I want.

I don't like the walled garden approach, either. In this day of plenty of information, sellers are running scared. If a Logitech or Gearhead mouse works for me - why should I buy Microsoft? Same for other peripherals. No one makes a keyboard like the old IBM clicker. I don't care that it doesn't have a Windows key. I don't need the Windows "Experience"

I don't like Apple getting into education, either. That's getting the kids to think Apple is the only way to go. Use the Ipad at school, but don't expect me to buy one at home. Apple now wants to get into textbooks. Another walled garden.

Daughter had to use IE (which she hates) to get into her college email or other personal stuff. I'm glad I don't have any kids in this day and age.

 

[Zoandroid]

We are somewhat kindred spirit, but for the fact that I am a gadget freak and don't like sports. But I don't go running after a gadget because of marketing hype. It has to be something I want, or has great potential, even before it ever makes a commercial.

I NEVER use "Windows Keys". On the previous AnyKey programmable keyboard I had, I reprogrammed them for a purpose of my own choosing. That keyboard could literally program almost every key. But after a couple decades of trusty service it finally died. Plus it didn't like Windows 7 very much. The Logitech G11 I use now only lets me program 'some' of the keys, so I can't reprogram the Windows keys. Sometimes I bump one and wonder "what is happening" when it opens up its programmed feature. I have no use for them at all. Nor do I use any of the folders Micro$oft provides with the word "My" in the name. I found a nifty utility to "undo" the Windows 7 pollution of the way files and folders display, making it work like XP, just so I can avoid all that useless cruft and not have to scroll past it all to get to the drive letters with the folders I seek every time I want to open or save a file.

Yea, I hate to see the schools getting back into bed with Apple. When my kids were in school, our schools had just realized they were graduating Mac addicts who, when they entered the mainstream business world, were expected to know Windows and Office, and came back complaining to their high school teachers that they weren't taught what they needed to know to work in a real office. Our school teachers told me that matter-of-factly. So our school system had switched to all Windows PCs. But somehow Apple has school systems drinking their koolaid again. My niece's school only uses Apple now. So she had to have a Mac and iHone. I expect when she graduates she'll be in for the same awakening. But the girl is pretty bright. I think she knows her way around Windows too already.

IE. Does anyone actually use that anymore? I thought it died with Netscape.

 

[EarlyMon]

I don't understand how boycotting anything is an answer.

One, they know boycott threats are only as effective as market alternatives allow.

Two, if the law fails, no boycott or petition can possibly succeed in any way, shape or form.

They will simply tell you that they'd love to help you but they can not because doing so would be illegal.

This was all upside down on entry. Please don't play into their hands by going upside down with them.

If only there were some effective strategy that is backed by actions taken by the stakeholders showing that they are working under some presumption that they really didn't care in the first place.

Wait - there is:

I say we try to educate them that we'll remove them from office if they don't stop this nonsense.

I don't like the idea of teaching them what I use my phone for or why I want root. It's none of their business. HTC already assists its customers wanting to get in and root. Samsung makes it easy on purpose and hired the lead from CyanogenMod to work on their phone software. If the longest Android producer and the largest Android producer both haven't had a problem until now, then it's not a problem, period, and we demand protection from special interests.

^THIS!

 

[9to5cynic]

Made me lol when you quoted yourself

All that being said, I have to agree. Eventually, these officials and their dinosaur philosophy will be out of power. I hope they don't do too much damage before we can set them straight though....

Imagine if this was applied to PCs, you'd sit down, ready to install your favorite game and "!!! You need to enter the administrator's password !!!" Oh.... wait, the PC is locked down, we can't do that.... no one would stand for that. If I'm running a linux kernel, I wanna be able to use that linux device as I would any other linux device.

 

[zuben el genub]

Boycotts do disturb marketing especially along political and religious lines. A good rumor about a product being tainted will set sellers scrambling.

Car makers have had it tough since Nader and the Corvair. Any negative publicity hurts.
Major stories like Ford's spontaneous combustion, Toyota's acceleration and other safety recalls will make the news. Other negative responses from Consumer Reports, Amazon ratings will annoy. If word spreads and people don't buy, it is effective. Hopefully we've learned from the tainted food scare of stuff imported from China.

Phorm has been defeated before. A lot was word of mouth and it put Phorm on the defensive. Problem is, no one equates what's happening now with Phorm.

I feel you bought the device, what you do with it and how you use it is your business.
I'm not ripping off my carrier, not pirating, so what business is it of anyone's if I want a glorified PDA that makes phone calls? Just because I want planetarium programs instead of Facebook, am I a criminal? Do I have to be tracked at my telescope to check which lunar crater I'm viewing? I happen to want all the room on the phone for these programs. Which I buy. Some stuff doesn't work on the SD card.

Programs also need to work without data connection. We've hit places no carrier really services or out of range of any carrier.

 

[EarlyMon]

So, if you threaten to boycott Android and iPhones, this will affect lawmakers how?

Remember, boycott threats got root opened for some of the Android makers, so they've already been to this dance.

 

[mplevy]

I paid for this phone much like I paid for my car.

Did you buy your phone outright or did you get it discounted with a 2 year plan? Discounted with a 2-year plan is SUBSIDIZED. Do you buy your cars with cash or do you get loans? If you get a loan, some things are dictated to you, such as required insurance coverages. OK, maybe not a GREAT analogy..


I dislike that "rooting" and "jailbreaking" are linked. Jailbreaking involves unlocking what was never touted as an open-source OS. Rooting in this context is gaining core access to an open-source OS, implying that the "author" of that OS (Google in this case) has released what makes it "tick" to the public for them to use that information to customize it or make it better for their purposes. Android IS released under the GPL, no?

One place I could see rooting being a concern, and why I haven't ventured there, is in the corporate world. Rooting could introduce a whole new level of security concern for IT security people when it comes to connecting those devices (with an un-vetted version of the OS) to the corporate servers (primarily mail). If the ROM developer missed something and left a hole open security-wise, that could pose trouble. right now, Exchange has no way to grab the OS version from the device, all it can grab is the version of the mail app, AirWatch can do this (I think) but it costs money and may not expose a rooted phone for what it is.

One doesn't need root to get paid apps for free, unless the app has market hooks to verify the license was purchased (does Google require this now?) All one needs to do is get the apk and enable app installation from untrusted sources (called sideloading, right?), as long as the phone or device allows that to be enabled (I don't do this, wouldn't know where to look for the APKs but I know it can be done). I admit, getting rid of the Vcast apps, Blockbuster, Rhaposdy, tunewiki would be WONDERFUL and would probably save a little battery life.

Does anyone read the EULA anymore? Has anyone read the EULA for iOS and Android? I seem to recall it being mentioned that in a lot of cases (not necessarily the previous-mentioned products but Windows may apply here) the EULA says you own the right to use the software, OS or application but you don't actually own the software, OS or application. This would make the "I own it, I should be able to do as I wish" argument somewhat moot.