Serious V20 Problem!!

[Debrox]

Here is my screenshot. I emailed the developers of Jet Audio and asked them about bit perfect output. It's still possible that things are getting downsampled on the back end and we can't see that.

I'll let you know if they reply. Neutron responded to my email, they say it's still a firmware/API issue and they can't do anything about bit perfect output until that is fixed.

If using Jet Audio you have to go to sound effects-show sound effects settings - and at the bottom is OUTPUT.

some files for me show up as 192kHz, stereo, 32bit. Others 48kHz,stereo 32 bit and others as 41.1kHz.

Make sure however you see what the file info says the encoding is. That's on the playlist menu - file info - for any selected file.

Example - Life_is_Good.flac (came with the phone) show up with.

Audio Info - FLAC 5.4Mbps, 192kHz, Stereo 24 bit
Output 192kHz, Stereo, 32 bit.

I should probably take a screen shot.

 

[Debrox]

Also, see this thread:

https://forum.xda-developers.com/v20/themes/list-music-players-dac-t3536815

Someone recorded the output of the headphone jack with the HIFI mode on and tested a bunch of music apps. Going by spectrum analysis Jet Audio was only putting out 44 khz.

 

[Napalm]

I could see that. your screen shot matches what I get. When the file is encoded the right way. Now do I know for certain that's what I get out the mobile.

well - hard to say. My only other 2 sample points are HT speaker setup and my PC with headphones on Creative Sound card. vs same file played across the V20 with the same headphones. It sounds comparable - but ears are not accurate.

 

[Napalm]

yeah I see that but he doesn't describe the rest of his test. Although a good idea. The problem I see - recording wise since it comes across analog - it will record whatever settings you set it up to sample with.

IE mic input - analog sample - I want a FLAC file with a 192kHz rate and that's what it will give me.

And spectrum analysis - what program and how was that done?

Also what file is he playing with each of those players.

Meanwhile I'll also e-mail jet audio devs and see if we get the same answer. OH one thought - there is a paid version and I use that. wonder if there is a difference there?

I almost like the LG player - but almost.

I said before - with it being a mobile - I'd be slightly surprised that either the app, or the base OS had the code to know what to do with the DAC output - if it could really do 192. as far as I know only a few mobiles even have that on board. Moto Z droid, LG V20, and Iphone 7. ANd I'm not sure about the moto product.

 

[Debrox]

@ Napalm, only LG knows what is really going on here and they are the ones that need to fix it. The tests from the XDA user are a little crude, but they are the best info we have ATM other that what the OP here gleaned from his direct contact with LG.

In the meantime, I have contacted ESS and raised the issue with them. The hardware is indeed capable of playing back the files correctly, but the issue is API and firmware AFAIK.

FWIW I am using the stock LG app here and there now. Supposedly it does the least amount of downsampling but it will still do some and it has problems with DSD files and such. I was able to get it on my ATT LG V20 by going through a bunch of rigamarole via a thread at XDA. ATT, in their infinite wisdom decided not to provide us with a stock music app at all.

The big point here is that we paid a premium for this phone and LG (and ESS too) did not deliver on what was advertised.

 

[Debrox]

IE mic input - analog sample - I want a FLAC file with a 192kHz rate and that's what it will give me.

Yes, it will but if there is no info above 20khz-22khz it should be somewhat obvious that downsampling is happening at output. The same thing would happen if I took a 24/192 file and converted it to 16/44 or 320 mp3 using a Foobar plugins on Windows then back again. There will be info lost which you can see. This is true even with a crude program like Spek, which is what I use to check FLACs purchased online and even my own personal CD rips from my collection (the latter out of sheer curiosity).

 

[dmunz]

So I just picked up the V20 on T-Mobile and I'm trying to sort this out. Am I correct in thinking this is only an issue if you DO NOT use the LG player? This is the one that came on my phone and it appears to play at higher rates (but I can only go by what is on the screen, I can't measure anything.)

If that is correct, is this more about "I want to use player X" than what the V20 can actually do? What, if anything, is wrong with the LG player?

Or is this an issue with any player on the V20?

TIA
DLM

 

[Debrox]

Or is this an issue with any player on the V20?

TIA
DLM

It's an issue with any player app. LG ran tests with their own app and confirmed problems. They just don't want to acknowledge it publicly or do anything to fix it either as far as we know.

 

[dmunz]

It's an issue with any player app. LG ran tests with their own app and confirmed problems. They just don't want to acknowledge it publicly or do anything to fix it either as far as we know.

Wow. Does this affect the plug-in DAC for the G5 as well? I may go back to that phone if it works better...

FWIW
DLM

 

[Debrox]

Wow. Does this affect the plug-in DAC for the G5 as well? I may go back to that phone if it works better...

FWIW
DLM

No idea, but it would not surprise me.

 

[Stalwi]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I am an audiophile and have exceptional hearing. I have tested my source files (pcm 44.1khz, 48khz, 88khz, 192khz, 384khz, dsd64, dsd128, dsd512) on a large number of DACs and headphones/IEMs. I know what they SHOULD sound like. When I started playing them on the Sprint variant V20 (LS997) using the stock music player shipped with it (Google Play Music) I was excited as it was able to play every files that I threw at it. I did notice, however, that the sound was lacking. Many of the DACs that I have tested on contain a Sabre chipset.

I am also, as you can probably tell, an amateur developer. I understand how a music app on Android should work. I made sure that the ES9812 was toggled on prior to testing. I tried many player apps that purport to support hi-res audio file playback including, but not limited to, Google Play Music LG Flow, Onkyo HF Player, NeutronMP, Black, Aimp, USB Audio Pro, Foobar2000, etc. I then made a quick app myself to query the Android OS. I got the result of 48khz PCM always. I then asked the developer of NeutronMP to verify my results and he did.

I could try using Alsa on a rooted V20, but I probably would get access denied because Android still runs in a sandbox and I would probably get a denial.

AudioManager is an API that is used to access the Android OS audio subsystem.

I can't quote every thing what you said but I've been following your thread from Android central forums as well (guess I'm not wrong) I can understand where your emotions are coming from. People cornered you because you said "let's face it it's the DAC for what we bought the phone for" frankly for many people it doesn't matter that much, people got bit offended and replied in a manner that they are helping here in the forum BUT actual motive bacame to target you and your thinking in this matter (which is absolutely in a right path) that's how people are no matter how good example you give i.e. motorcycles, race cars etc. Which were more than enough to make people understand but they will be in mood of revenge and pretend won't understand even if they understand Just because you became a bit emotional with the DAC thing, People don't spare chance to corner any one, they could have disagreed with you bit politely, anyway I'll move away from the psychology part now.

I got LGV20 today, I ordered it from ebay and it is the American single sim version with TMobile now seller says it's brand new, but who knows, it looks new just a tiny ignorable scratch at back. Now thing is there is an underdog lenovo phone called Lenovo VibeX3 'which I own, has front facing amazing speakers and SABRE QUAD DAC now the issue is pretty similar as with LGV20, the DAC won't fire up even toggling with the HiFi button until recently when someone provided an hack with an app called Quick Shortcut maker and Man after that it opened up the hidden options where you can select the Brand and model of headphones you have and BOOM sounds Damn big warm and even my Sennheiser momentum in ear and Sony in ear sounded close to audiopiliac grade head phones and Now the LGV20 sounds absolutely Tinny in front of my VibeX3.

The reason I bought V20 was primarily DAC and secondary the camera under Budget lenono stopped support and updates for Vibe X3 and there is no custom ROM for this amazing phone as well.

Now coming back to your racing car example it the dude who replied back has driven Moped and he got sports bike with speed capped ..... He will be happy because he never ever had a taste of that super high speed he is okay with okay things in life and Phone company likes these people because they won't question whether their DAC works as they mentioned.

Also you mentioned somewhere in your reply

"The ES9218 DAC is not connected via an external digital interface"

Is it something physical on circuit board or if LG wants to fix it can fix by software update? Can this 48khz limit thing can be fixed with rooting and making an custom app? I know I am a year late to ask all these.

Does native Oreo has a fix for this i.e. if the Oreo can push 48khz + to the DAC, Does Viper4android used V20 DAC? Or lastly is there any custom ROM for Audiophile like us which which takes care of above.

 

[Napalm]

I've not really looked much more into it. I know there was some updates in the software when they did one of the security patches. According to my Jet Audio program when it does play a FLAC encoded file that was encoded at higher samples it shows the output in in that higher sample rate. Like the 192Khz sampled files I have that are London Philharmonic recordings. When I play them on my home equipment using Grado headphones at my computer's Creative Audio card they sound as good as they do on the mobile using the same headphones. Now the card on the computer has a amp on it for headphone use and the LG is one of the few mobiles I know of that has extra amplification for it's headphone output.

I've not sampled the same using the headphone jack on my processor though I guess I could. Eitherway biggest deal for a mobile I can put in my pocket - carry most of the day without charging it (need a new battery) and and still do all the others things mobile. It sounds awesome. I hope other companies put some emphasis on audio quality like LG has. Since you mention a Lenovo product it sounds like maybe in other markets in other countries they do. Here in the US the pickings are very slim.

If I wanted pure sound quality for playing files I would consider one of the newer USB-C DAC/amp devices that are on the market or maybe even try the higher end BT systems - but I don't know they have decoding capability like that. The plug in ones advertise it. I thought about going down that road - and if I had I'd have still bought the V20 for all the other things it does. I'm somewhat looking forward to what the newer V40 holds when it's released but I'm hoping to hold out till the new V50.

 

[MsJazzMaven]

one thing to remember is that the V20 also sports a higher amplification circuit on the headphone jack. When active it puts out a good bit more power than other mobiles - or even portable digital players (ipod nano etc)

as such it will highlight weaknesses in your headphones. Cheap cans are going to sound tinny and weak or boomy and muddled on the v20 vs other devices with lesser supplied power output.

Also if you don't see the hifi symbol in your notification pane then it's not actually active.

but yes souce file - player settings - cans used, etc can all lead to crappy sound.

All I know is that it cleaned up the sound on my old boombox's cheap detachable speakers when plugged in. Less boomy in the bass when cranked up, and clearer overall. At least with Music Volume EQ's bass boost turned halfway up.. BTW, the Play Store has the app for hi-fi notifications, specific to the LG's V series, if your phone came shipped without them. It lets you know what the phone is doing when you connect to the headphone jack. If you're plugged in with a standard 3.5 mm without the microphone, it will show up as a status bar icon that says "aux." Haven't tried it yet with mic-enabled headphones or through a receiver. It works on all variants. Currently using an unlocked, never used open-box H910, bought on Ebay for less than $150..