Should Arizona secede from the US?

[ballisticn8]

Oh please they don't just check Mexicans randomly. And no, they should and will stay in America. BTW i'm Mexican

lmao, i love this post...

my mother in law is mexican, born and raised, she's here legally and supports this law, so does my grandpa who was also born and raised in mexico before coming here legally.

 

[Filipino.Cowboy]

lmao, i love this post...

my mother in law is mexican, born and raised, she's here legally and supports this law, so does my grandpa who was also born and raised in mexico before coming here legally.

I've noticed that MOST people I have seen that have came here legally, support this law. And that is great! I don't understand why it is such a shocker that Arizona officially made it a crime to be an illegal alien.

 

[Droppin Deuces]

Great Topic! there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Immigrants are technically legal because they are telling the country that they are going to about their intentions. In the law they are called illegal aliens! Undocumented workers and "Entrants" are liberal words to make them and other people feel better about themselves. The law is the law!

 

[LiamSHepard]

Recently Arizona was trying to pass an immigration law to search all "mexican looking people" whenever an officer was in doubt that they are legally here.

The government sued Arizona and is trying to shut down this law from taking affect.


For some of you that don't know, Arizona is at war with the drug cartel. They are drenched with illegals, over 400,000 of them.

Children are dying, people are getting murdered, raped, and robbed, all because of a plant that life created, and many of us have abused.

Since the Arizona receives not protection or help from the government, should it pack up its bags and secede from the Union?

Arizona has been at war with the cartel, and now its going to be in a legal "war" against the feds for the right to protect its own borders

Edit: I guess Arizona is right the border.

To be a bit more clear. Arizona simply elected to enforce already existing federal laws. The law states that when someone is pulled over for a traffic violation, they are asked for their license and registration. This is standard procedure. If the person pulled over is not a legal citizen they can be sent home or turned over to immigration (I forget which). Again, standard procedure. That is all. This same law applies in all 50 states. If it is actually enforced or not is another question. I fail to understand how this lawsuit has any legs to stand up in court.

Also, I do believe car insurance is required in Arizona. I ponder how many illegal immigrants are aware of this law or elect to carry car insurance coverage.

On another slightly off topic note: Texas is the only state that can technically succeed from the union. That is why they are called the "Lone Start State."
Pennsylvania is not technically a state. They are a commonwealth. Perhaps this is how Pennsylvania can fine you 1% of you total state tax refund.

 

[Rota]

Also, I do believe car insurance is required in Arizona. I ponder how many illegal immigrants are aware of this law or elect to carry car insurance coverage.

It is required, and many illegals either hit and run, or simply have no way to pay for the damage because they don't have insurance or any money. Therefore taking them to court over the matter is worthless, and you're screwed either way. More reason to get rid of them all.

 

[LiamSHepard]

It is required, and many illegals either hit and run, or simply have no way to pay for the damage because they don't have insurance or any money. Therefore taking them to court over the matter is worthless, and you're screwed either way. More reason to get rid of them all.

To me, it would make more sense to just make the ones here legal so they are paying taxes and such. We don't have the money or manpower to send them home. Perhaps if we made it less of a process of becoming citizens they would come forward on their own. At least then they would pay taxes and such just like everyone else.
I just can't get mad at people for wanting to feed their families. Mexico is not known for an outstanding economy. If the shoe was on my foot, I would do the same thing.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Isn't it basically impossible for a state to secede since it needs 2/3rd of votes from the other states or something like that?

When you ask Mr. Google about your question, it is obvious that many people, from many different states want to succeed. Texas, Vermont, Mississippi, to name a few.The process is quite complicated to be sure. I also think once a state succeeds, there are many consequences that are not considered by the general public, much past the surface stuff.

To some, it seems like a good idea, so why not.

I am NOT an Constitutional expert or an expert on the law and what might be required, but how much federal money would stop flowing to these states that want out?

Would the federal government stop helping flood victims? Perhaps no federal cops to help with immigration enforcement?

I think we need to make drastic changes so states want to stay.

Bob

 

[ElasticNinja]

I just can't get mad at people for wanting to feed their families. Mexico is not known for an outstanding economy. If the shoe was on my foot, I would do the same thing.

It certainly makes me mad when I hear EU political parties giving out about illegal immigration while at the same time wanting to cut the aid budget and exploit further the countries where said illegals csme from.

Still though I believe ILLEGAL imigration is bad of course, but at least in the EU, its totally blown out of proportion...

 

[copestag]

When you ask Mr. Google about your question, it is obvious that many people, from many different states want to succeed. Texas, Vermont, Mississippi, to name a few.The process is quite complicated to be sure. I also think once a state succeeds, there are many consequences that are not considered by the general public, much past the surface stuff.

To some, it seems like a good idea, so why not.

I am NOT an Constitutional expert or an expert on the law and what might be required, but how much federal money would stop flowing to these states that want out?

Would the federal government stop helping flood victims? Perhaps no federal cops to help with immigration enforcement?

I think we need to make drastic changes so states want to stay.

Bob

as far as federal funding or emergency services...... Im sure they would actually be better off....... as the federal taxes currently paid would now all be Arizona income........ which is considerably more Im sure than they receive back from the govt.....

however there are tons of things not considered when succession talk is in the air......

for example: you would need international trade agreements for any business beyond your border, this means a company couldnt sell its products to any other state without govt approval, a govt who wouldnt be to eager to deal with you...... you would need a passport to visit Las Vegas just a few miles away...... not to mention Im sure there are people who live near the state border who work in neighboring states, these people would lose their jobs or need a green card to keep them...... these are just a few obvious things off the top of my head that people would never consider..... there of course are probably thousands of other issues

 

[darkendandroid23]

As President Obama said to the governor of Arizona when he asked for national guard and military assistance since about 80 miles or more by now have taken over the state the drug cartels. " I am waiting for the crisis to start get worse before i will send troops in, the crisis is not worse enough!" For what the north American union or agreement or community as they call it. The only one with actual courage and strength is the Sheriff. The cartels want to kill him. Yeah sure the president sent troops but they went away again of course. You want a real war by the consent of the congress since it hasn't been one passed by them since the second world war! The American- Mexican war once more, that's a real war about Borders just as Napoleon did the same too. Different story of course. But again the powers that be have made it this way. There will either one of a two a french revolution in this country or another civil war. IDK IDK. History is among us gentlemen and gals and we as the people need to make a change and decision our elected officials have failed us from day one, money corrupts us all! I say no from seceding i say we take back our country the way the founding fathers made it so the greatest revolution of all time, 1776 the spirit of it!

 

[Martimus]

The only one with actual courage and strength is the Sheriff. The cartels want to kill him.

As much as I dread asking this, which Sheriff? Joke Arpaio of Maricopa County? Or Hollywood Babeu of Pinal County?

While I fully support Governor Brewer (much to the chagrin of many of my liberal leaning friends), I think that both sheriffs are world class prima dona's. Both Sheriff Arpaio and Sheriff Babeu seem more interested in getting in front of a camera than doing their jobs.

 

[Isthmus]

Isn't it basically impossible for a state to secede since it needs 2/3rd of votes from the other states or something like that?

Ding din ding. You nailed it. Once a state joins the union, the threshold for leaving is so high that it is essentially theoretical. people might have all the secessionist talk they want, but it is just that, talk.

Commonwealths and territories, on the other hand, are a different matter. It is far easier for them to secede. however, IIRC even for those parts of the country, it is not a local decision, it is a federal one to let them go, stay as they are or join the union as a state or other legal arrangement.

In theory, the EU works in very similar fashion. despite the separations that EU states still pretend to exercise, once a states becomes a full EU member, it is really not at liberty to leave any more. This piece of legislation no one has tested though.

 

[Martimus]

Ding din ding. You nailed it. Once a state joins the union, the threshold for leaving is so high that it is essentially theoretical. people might have all the secessionist talk they want, but it is just that, talk.

Well that and the fact that Arizona has, at least the last time I checked, no official interest in Seceding from the Union. This whole thread is one gigantic theoretical discusson.

 

[ballisticn8]

Arpaio (otherwise known as ArPieHole) is a f***ing joke, nuff said. All he cares about is getting his face on camera. For all the sheeple that gladly follow him and support him here in AZ because he's "doing something about illegals" you deserve him. He doesnt do jack about illegal immigration, the city police do, they just turn them over to him because he runs the jails. Back in 2003 Joe was quoted saying he didnt care about illegal immigration, then in 2004 he flopped because of public opinion. Meanwhile rural areas have over a 45 minute response time wait for crimes because he's too busy with two swat teams arresting 2 janitors than dealing with over 40,000+ outstanding warrants, some for extremely violent and dangerous criminals.

Do I think something needs to be done about illegals, yes, but Joke ArPieHole isnt the answer AZ needs.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arpaio/

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/specialReports/major-articles-on-joe-arpaio-1166737/

 

[_J.J._]

Arizona can not secede. This is after all the UNITED states of America. I do however wish they would be the first to try the resulting war would set the progressive movement back 100 years aside from killing off the drug smugglers.

Arizona should call up South Carolina for secession tips.... after all, it worked out so well for them....

 

[ElasticNinja]

In theory, the EU works in very similar fashion. despite the separations that EU states still pretend to exercise, once a states becomes a full EU member, it is really not at liberty to leave any more. This piece of legislation no one has tested though.

Yeah I think for a state to leave the EU it needs a vote of 51% in a referndum to leave.
Of course no country would leave because it would be economic suicide.
Besides that, the only state who could get near that percentage in a referendum is the UK, and that has the problem of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland wanting to stay
Indeed regarding NI the UK cant leave the EU without Ireland leaving and forming a seperate union with the UK (which plainy CAN'T happen) because of the Northern Ireland issue.

 

[riffdex]

Oh really? I seem to remember a certain number of states who did it during a little event called the American Civil War. Anyways people will make claims that legally you cannot secede as the Federal government reasserted by invading the Southern states. However, and this is universal rule that applies to any faction, group, or identifying power on the planet. Anyone can break away from anything if they have enough support to do so.

For example the Thirteen Colonies breaking away from Britain, or more recently the break up of Yugoslavia into independent states or nations (state is just another way of saying a sovereign body btw). Ultimately it is the body itself that reserves the right to absolve a union on its own call and that right cannot be owned by anyone despite anything on paper. Its a natural law that they can do so simply because they can. All it would take for Arizona or any US state to secede would be a set vote as was done during the Civil War and the state government would take care of the rest.

Would it be in the best interest for Arizona to do so? Not without guarantees from other states that it would follow suit, and had sufficient economic as well as military forces to justify its own defense and well being. However, given the debt of the federal government and its clear lack of interest in defending its own borders while off policing the worlds problems, a positive case might be made to do so.

Before The Civil War, secession was an open question. Things have changed since then. Ever heard of Texas v. White? Secession is Unconstitutional, and committing a crime against the government. And unlike a convicted felon, Arizona can't flee to Tijuana for a few years if the feds are after them. Most likely, if a state were to *try to* secede these days, the Governor of the state (or whoever declares secession) would be arrested by the Feds. It's hard to know exactly how things would happen but it obviously wouldn't lead to a Civil War happening again.