So you think Jailbreaking your iPad is Legal?

[Bob Maxey]

Been doing a little essential research and I have arrived at a conclusion or two. No flamers need apply. A little information or links-a-plenty will be warmly recieved, however.

From half-baked and sensationalized folderol to well considered and thoughtfull ideas and theories are wanted. OK, flame away, if you must.

The recent DCMA exception we all know and love, specifically refers to wireless phones. The iPad JB community always points to the recent rulings and seems to overlook the simple fact that iPads are not specifically mentioned in the rule changes.

So the query is: would courts say "well, yes . . . the laws also apply to iPads, as well." Or will/would they simply say," no . . . they are not covered by the exemption." Will such assumptions kill you in court?

Half-baked thoughts anyone?

The iPad was released after the EFF petitioned the U.S. Government to allow jailbreaking under the DMCA. The iPad-jailbreak exemption will not be considered until late 2011 when the Office begins accepting petitions for the next round of reviews.

So can anypone point to some further reading material?

The EFF seems to think iPads will be addressed. For now, however, iPads are not specifically mentioned.

From Wired News: Alot and little has transpired following the Electronic Frontier Foundation asking the U.S. Copyright Office for an exemption to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act for authorization to jailbreak an iPhone or any

 

[VoidedSaint]

im not sure if im correct, cause this was told to me by my friend, i was told that if your iphone is caught jailbroken, supposidly Steve Jobs can fine you $5000 (im almost positive he would cause he is a prick) and terminate your contract with AT&T

not 100% sure if his word is valid or where he heard this but with steve jobs being the master ninja prick he is it wouldnt surprise me

 

[Bob Maxey]

im not sure if im correct, cause this was told to me by my friend, i was told that if your iphone is caught jailbroken, supposidly Steve Jobs can fine you $5000 (im almost positive he would cause he is a prick) and terminate your contract with AT&T

not 100% sure if his word is valid or where he heard this but with steve jobs being the master ninja prick he is it wouldnt surprise me

For Jobs to fine you, a trial must take place; you are found guilty and you pay the piper. Better never hope any corporation can levy a fine like that or we are screwed.

Do not fret, grasshopper. Go forth and JB that sucker.

I seriously doubt Mr. Jobs cares much. According to something I read while researching, apparently, Apple does not want jailbreaking ruled illegal; they simply do not want it ruled strictly legal.

Until JB goes mainstream and it becomes popular with most owners, Apple will likely grin and bear it. Then again, you might see Apple coming at those in the business with plenty of loaded muskets if they start to seriously erode Apple's revenue.

Bob

 

[bigbadwulff]

Damn I just put new tires on my Excursion. I hope Mr. Ford doesn't find out. Same thing in my boat. Jobs is a nut case.

 

[Hrethgir]

im not sure if im correct, cause this was told to me by my friend, i was told that if your iphone is caught jailbroken, supposidly Steve Jobs can fine you $5000 (im almost positive he would cause he is a prick) and terminate your contract with AT&T

not 100% sure if his word is valid or where he heard this but with steve jobs being the master ninja prick he is it wouldnt surprise me

Your friend is yanking your chain.

 

[Xyro]

im not sure if im correct, cause this was told to me by my friend, i was told that if your iphone is caught jailbroken, supposidly Steve Jobs can fine you $5000 (im almost positive he would cause he is a prick) and terminate your contract with AT&T

not 100% sure if his word is valid or where he heard this but with steve jobs being the master ninja prick he is it wouldnt surprise me

Although I'm sure Apple didn't try to dispel the rumour that jailbreaking an iPhone is ilegal under the DMCA, it was ruled to be legal last year.

It voids your warranty of course, but that's hardly a $5000 fine.

 

[ashykat]

im not sure if im correct, cause this was told to me by my friend, i was told that if your iphone is caught jailbroken, supposidly Steve Jobs can fine you $5000 (im almost positive he would cause he is a prick) and terminate your contract with AT&T

not 100% sure if his word is valid or where he heard this but with steve jobs being the master ninja prick he is it wouldnt surprise me

Your friend is mistaken.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Although I'm sure Apple didn't try to dispel the rumour that jailbreaking an iPhone is ilegal under the DMCA, it was ruled to be legal last year.

Was it? The EFF will tell you that the ruling does not apply to iPads, just iPhones. That is why I am digging for the truth. We all simply assume the ruling makes it legal, but that is by no means a sure thing. Especially when you read the EFF's court documents, Apple's responce, EFF's f second batch of paperwork and the DMCA ruling in full.

I think Apple will leave us lawless jailbreakers alone. Untill some clever folks decide to take jailbreaking mainstream and with slick marketing, convince millions of iPad users that Apple is unfair and restrictive and the use can do far more with a jailbroken iPad than the stock unit.

Like avoid Apple and iTunes alltogether if they wish to. When Apple sees increased revenue loss because of jailbreaking, I sure hope those involved have a dead solid case.

For now, many people JB their iDevices. When it damages Apple's bottom line, you can expect more cases.

Apple released a stunning financial report and they are most certainly not short of cash. Will laughing at Apple irk Steve and make him find a few to punish?

Bob

 

[TheBrit]

If I buy an iPad, it's mine. I'll do what the hell I like with it.

 

[mikedt]

Damn I just put new tires on my Excursion. I hope Mr. Ford doesn't find out.

As long as your new tyres are road legal and are within the specifications required by Mr. Ford for that vehicle, you'll be OK. If not, then you'll be criminally liable if an accident was to occur as a result of non-legal or out-of-spec tyres. Any warranty is likely to be voided by such actions as well.

 

[Xyro]

Was it? The EFF will tell you that the ruling does not apply to iPads, just iPhones. That is why I am digging for the truth. We all simply assume the ruling makes it legal, but that is by no means a sure thing. Especially when you read the EFF's court documents, Apple's responce, EFF's f second batch of paperwork and the DMCA ruling in full.

I think Apple will leave us lawless jailbreakers alone. Untill some clever folks decide to take jailbreaking mainstream and with slick marketing, convince millions of iPad users that Apple is unfair and restrictive and the use can do far more with a jailbroken iPad than the stock unit.

Like avoid Apple and iTunes alltogether if they wish to. When Apple sees increased revenue loss because of jailbreaking, I sure hope those involved have a dead solid case.

For now, many people JB their iDevices. When it damages Apple's bottom line, you can expect more cases.

Apple released a stunning financial report and they are most certainly not short of cash. Will laughing at Apple irk Steve and make him find a few to punish?

Bob

I knew what you meant, and it's an interesting question, but VoidedSaint asked specifically about iPhones.

I think you're right about Apple not careing until they (or app developers) are losing money. If you look at the Sony vs GeoHotz case a short while ago, that was mainly over game piracy on jailbroken PS3s.

In the end, it wasn't a complete victory for either side.

 

[Bob Maxey]

If I buy an iPad, it's mine. I'll do what the hell I like with it.

That is how it should be, unless there are terms specifically forbidding it.

I do not know, I never read the Apple agreement.

Imagine buying a car and learning that only Ford (pick a name) can work on your car, and not you? On the one hand, you are a fool for signing any such agreement without reading it. On the other hand, the question is, does Ford have a right to stop you from working on your own property, regardless of the agreement and what it contains? Then back to why did you not read the agreement, and round we go.

I think there are provisions in the law that will not allow a company to enforce unfair contractual restrictions, regardless of the contract terms.

Ignorance is no excuse and perhaps Ford would win. On the other hand, we all assume and have done so for decades, that doing your own car repairs is "fair use" and if it went before a jury, they might conclude that whatever they decide will also affect (or can, if gear-heads are part of the jury) them, so they ignore the law and vote against Ford.

Then it is appealed and see the first paragraph above.

Bob

 

[Bob Maxey]

I knew what you meant, and it's an interesting question, but VoidedSaint asked specifically about iPhones.

I think you're right about Apple not careing until they (or app developers) are losing money. If you look at the Sony vs GeoHotz case a short while ago, that was mainly over game piracy on jailbroken PS3s.

In the end, it wasn't a complete victory for either side.

You must also watch out for the fearful words and Apple's Assistive Confusion Process. In their own released statement, one of the points they made is that a jailbroken device can be used to pirate applications.

As of today, Apple's entire line of laptops and desktop computers can be used to steal IP. Every web enabled PC can be used to steal IP, And that's off the shelf, not with scary tools and software. I can use Safari to steal anything on the web. Or Opera or IE.

The reason (in my opinion) Apple mentioned this is because there are tools out there that allow you to steal otherwise paid for applications. Very true indeed. If it is available from the app store, chances are it is available illegally. So it can cut into Apple's revenue.

The tool does not hack Apple, it simply finds hacked App Store applications and presents them in a simple way that makes it easy to take what is not yours. It is not the software, it is the mindset of those few that want to steal.

Suppose I released a software package that caught on and spread like wild fire, and I was selling half a million units per month; I was interviewed everywhere and people talked about how great it was to be able to avoid iTunes. The proverbial middle finger to Steve, as it were.

What happens to me? Does Apple send their legal SWAT team and grind me to dust?

Bob

 

[Bob Maxey]

As long as your new tyres are road legal and are within the specifications required by Mr. Ford for that vehicle, you'll be OK. If not, then you'll be criminally liable if an accident was to occur as a result of non-legal or out-of-spec tyres. Any warranty is likely to be voided by such actions as well.

True, but your analogy does not really apply, does it? A better one would be Ford can sue you in court for changing your own tires. You violated the terms and conditions in the iTire contract you signed.

Not at all fair.

If Ford were Apple, you are limited to the selection of tires offered by Ford's iTires and the Ford Tire Store. No other place to go. So you sell a special wrench and adapter that allows you to remove the Ford tires and install tires from another store.

So you are sued by Ford or the courts issue an injunction and your special tools are ordered removed from sale.

Bob

 

[lordofthereef]

If the legalities of jailbreaking an iPad ever went to court, I assume they would point to iPhone jailbreak being legal as precedent and end it there. I haven't read the ruling, but if it strictly states "mobile phone" it should be changed to "electronic device". ENough said.

 

[Bob Maxey]

If the legalities of jailbreaking an iPad ever went to court, I assume they would point to iPhone jailbreak being legal as precedent and end it there. I haven't read the ruling, but if it strictly states "mobile phone" it should be changed to "electronic device". ENough said.

I agree, absolutely. Apple uses the same OS across all iDevices so it is not like we are talking about three dissimilar devices. And precedent must count for something.

 

[sonofaresiii]

As long as your new tyres are road legal and are within the specifications required by Mr. Ford for that vehicle, you'll be OK. If not, then you'll be criminally liable if an accident was to occur as a result of non-legal or out-of-spec tyres. Any warranty is likely to be voided by such actions as well.

you can put house-sized wheels on that Ford and tear up your backyard with it all you want, no one can stop you. Which means the question isn't, is jailbreaking the iphone (or ipad) illegal, but is using a jailbroken (jailbreaked?) iphone/ipad on a public network illegal?

Seems to me once you pay for the device, it's yours and you can do any old thing you want with it... until you take it into the realm of the public. (An essentially worthless distinction, but I'm sure some lawyer could make the point that the specific charges brought-- being fined for jailbreaking an ipad-- are not valid)

edit: and my argument, using your street-legal modifications analogy, is that the roads are made by the government, paid for by the people. cell carriers are private companies. thus, all that can happen is they can kick you off their network-- not bring criminal charges. but that's only my argument, and i've found in life it's not rare that people disagree with me.

 

[EarlyMon]

This post is cromulent to Apple's legal assertions - iPad Jailbreaking is Illegal? - Page 2 - Apple iPad Forum

A lot of software licenses have anti-reverse-engineering clauses - but in this case, Apple is relying on the DCMA and copyright infringement.

All I can say is gotta love the DCMA - a law that ought never have passed, as it accomplished nothing but confusion and contradicted previous laws on fair use (in which case, fair use seems to have been given exceptions in all cases I've read about).

How many exceptions and exemptions are required before the courts just strike down the DCMA altogether?

As mentioned - same processing tech, same OS, same copyrighted material at issue - how many devices need be spelled out before it's clear to the legislation and courts that the DCMA has no clothes?

 

[novox77]

The iPad is in a funny situation. It's so similar to an iPhone that everyone pretty much assumes that the same ruling will automatically apply to iPad as iPhone.

But for Apple who might think there's a loophole because it's not a smartphone (thank GOD we didn't put a phone on the tablet!), they also realize that there's no way to get a victory on this one because if you apply the intent of the iPhone jailbreak ruling, it would apply to a device that's so damn similar.

So if Apple doesn't initiate a fuss, no one will ever clarify the DCMA, and the iPad will stay in this murky area (at least on legal paper) forever.