Startup items.

[jungleexplorer]

My background is in PCs so that is the terminology I use and understand. I have worked on hundreds of Windows PCs that the main complaint was system slow down, sluggishness and freezing. In almost every case, the problem was too many startup items that were consuming system resources like memory and CPU cycles. Fixing the problem was as simple as disabling many of the start of items that were hogging system resources.

Just like my Windows based PCs, Android appears to suffer from the same problems. Just like Windows, it seems that every app you install wants to run at startup and run in the background. I have four Android based devices and all of them have a problem with too many startup items.

Now, with Windows I could solve the problem by using a command like msconfig to disable a bunch of the startup items and liberate system resources. But, with Android I have found no way to do this. There are a lot of apps that I use on a very rare occasion but I do like to have on my phone just in case I need them at some point in time. The only way I have found to get them to not run at startup is to uninstall them.

I am wondering if there is any way to do something similar in android like in Windows to disable startup items while not having to uninstall the app?

 

[dan330]

first.... you are comparing oranges to pineapples. you are trying to peel a pineapple like an orange. stop. stop trying to think android is like DOS/Windows.

2nd... android uses resources and releases resources differently. android will handle it all for u. it is very good at handling it. it wants to load in apps into the background. things back there are not active unless it needs to update something or the user needs something form it.

3rd... if you uninstall or freeze on app so that it will not take up resources.. android will just find some other app to load into memory.

4th... don't even try to use task killers apps.. android versions 4.2 and higher don't need your help with this.

5th.. best advise.. you need to just STOP thinking about the memory and resources on android. just use the device and enjoy.

 

[codesplice]

Like dan330 said, you don't need to be overly concerned with how many applications may be cached in RAM - in Android, unused RAM is wasted RAM.

That being said, there are a variety of applications in the Play Store that claim to improve performance by disabling startup items. I don't recommend any of them - it's far too easy to break something with those.

Instead, I use and recommend Greenify, which takes a more intelligent approach. Greenify will still let apps run in the background, but will terminate ones you don't want after they've been backgrounded for a bit. :thumbup:

 

[jungleexplorer]

first.... you are comparing oranges to pineapples. you are trying to peel a pineapple like an orange. stop. stop trying to think android is like DOS/Windows.

2nd... android uses resources and releases resources differently. android will handle it all for u. it is very good at handling it. it wants to load in apps into the background. things back there are not active unless it needs to update something or the user needs something form it.

3rd... if you uninstall or freeze on app so that it will not take up resources.. android will just find some other app to load into memory.

4th... don't even try to use task killers apps.. android versions 4.2 and higher don't need your help with this.

5th.. best advise.. you need to just STOP thinking about the memory and resources on android. just use the device and enjoy.

I would not have made this post unless there were a problem. Android does a poor job of handling resources in my experience. My devices run with almost all the ram memory consumed most of the time causing system lag and freezing on a constant bases. I have to restart my devices multiple times a day do to complete system freeze ups. And no, I am not running a custom rom just in case you were going to try to play the blame game. All of my android devices are running stock roms and have been updates to the latest availible rom through the proper channels.

I have traced most of the glitches in my devices back to background services hogging all available resources. I can run a memory cleaner like Clean Master and free up around 200MB of memory and my device will run smooth for a while. But in a short period if time the memory will be all consumed again and the device will slow down and freeze. In the pc realm, we consider apps that grab memory and will not let it go to have a memory leak. It seems that all android apps have this problem, ir Android does not know how to free up this available memory on it's own for some reason.

 

[Slug]

I would not have made this post unless there were a problem.

And other are trying to explain why the problem may not be what you perceive it to be. Please treat them with the same courtesy you yourself demand.

I have traced most of the glitches in my devices back to background services hogging all available resources.

If you would list these we'd be happy to advise which can be safely prevented from starting without adverse effects on your user experience.

 

[dan330]

what version of android are your devices running... and if all your devices are giving you same lags and lockups. i think you have a BAD app. some app is being bad and causing your issue.

edit: the same bad app is likely on all your devices.

you might want to track down that offending app.. uninstall it. find a competing app to replace it.

 

[jungleexplorer]

Like dan330 said, you don't need to be overly concerned with how many applications may be cached in RAM - in Android, unused RAM is wasted RAM.

That being said, there are a variety of applications in the Play Store that claim to improve performance by disabling startup items. I don't recommend any of them - it's far too easy to break something with those.

Instead, I use and recommend Greenify, which takes a more intelligent approach. Greenify will still let apps run in the background, but will terminate ones you don't want after they've been backgrounded for a bit. :thumbup:

Thanks. I will check out greenify.

I have noticed on my devices that when the system ram gets to around 80% used, my devices start to slow down and start to freeze. Unsed ram is not wasted, it is there to be available when it is needed for more intense apps. Also, ram memory is volatile, which means that it requires a constant charge to store data. It takes more power to keep a larger amount of ram memory in use, which drains the battery quicker. On a power hungry device like a smartphone, it just seems like the battery would last longer if did not have to keep Gigabyte of ram memory charged constantly.

 

[Crashdamage]

I have noticed on my devices that when the system ram gets to around 80% used, my devices start to slow down and start to freeze.

99.9% of the time this is due to a poorly coded app misbehaving rather than a fault in Android's memory management. Android, particularly v4.0 and above, does a terrific job of managing memory with no help. On reasonably capable hardware you should have no problems.

IOW don't try to cure your problems by treating the symptoms. Find the underlying illness and cure that. And as has been said, don't think of RAM usage in Windows terms. In Android/Linux high RAM usage is both normal and desirable.

It takes more power to keep a larger amount of ram memory in use, which drains the battery quicker. On a power hungry device like a smartphone, it just seems like the battery would last longer if did not have to keep Gigabyte of ram memory charged constantly.

It takes (effectively) nothing. You will use far more power attempting to keep RAM free or otherwise micromanage OS processes than you can ever hope to save.

 

[jungleexplorer]

And other are trying to explain why the problem may not be what you perceive it to be. Please treat them with the same courtesy you yourself demand.



If you would list these we'd be happy to advise which can be safely prevented from starting without adverse effects on your user experience.

I apologise if you felt that I was not treating the poster with the same respect he treated me. I felt his post was very condescending towards me and was basically saying, " You stupid Windows user. You have no idea what you are about, so just shutup and be happy because Android is perfection. " Read over his post and see if you don't see that. When people automatically assume I am an idiot and think they can talk down to me, well they have another thing coming. Treat me with respect and I will do like wise, even if I disagree with you.

Now to my problem. It is very simple. I have been using Android for two years now. I have four devices. I am not a moder and none of my devices are rooted. They are running the latest stock roms. All of them start getting slow, sluggish and freezing up after being on for a while with heavy use. The problem gets to the point that the devices have to be powered off and restarted. I have exprienced this the most on my Galaxy S2 and S2 Skyrocket because I use these the most. But it also happens a lot on my Acer A500 tablet. It get sluggish that even typing because so slow you have to waite 2 seconds between each key stroke. If a run a memory clean up and free up some memory and get the memory down to around 60%, the problem goes away for a while until the memory gets back up to around 80%, then it returns.

Sorry for the typos. Tiny touch screens and huge thumbs don't mix well.

 

[Crashdamage]

Have you checked to see if there is an app, possibly common to all 4 devices, which uses considerable RAM or CPU cycles and is misbehaving (such as failing to release RAM when needed)?

Don't treat the symptoms (restart the phone or micromanage RAM) cure the illness (find the bad app or other cause).

 

[WoohooGuy]

Thanks. I will check out greenify.

I have noticed on my devices that when the system ram gets to around 80% used, my devices start to slow down and start to freeze. Unsed ram is not wasted, it is there to be available when it is needed for more intense apps. Also, ram memory is volatile, which means that it requires a constant charge to store data. It takes more power to keep a larger amount of ram memory in use, which drains the battery quicker. On a power hungry device like a smartphone, it just seems like the battery would last longer if did not have to keep Gigabyte of ram memory charged constantly.

DRAM is charged in parallel grids where voltage is shot across entire rows of cells at once and has to intersect a secondary charge shot across the rows in the other direction to charge it's state to over 50 percent that would be recognized as a digital 1.

Any notion of power savings that would positively impact a typical smartphone battery over its daily use is a bit of a stretch, any power savings to be had keeping RAM empty would be minuscule at best at the voltage the cells are charged to. RAM is also not storing data in neat little stacks, it gets scattered within blocks and some of the "free ram" you are trying to save may temporarily sit empty next to three other cells that may be live, and the entire row of cells has voltage passing through it anyway to keep it's neighbors live. If you have 2 gigs of RAM across 2 sticks and needle it's use to under one gig, the system will not power down the second stick.

You are asking honey bees to not fill specific cells of their comb. Sure it can be done but are you going to monitor it every second of the day to ensure success?

Sluggish devices are not the result of Android not properly managing it's resources, its often the result of running apps that make bad use of Android's resources OR the user expecting too much from a cheaper device.

You do not need a task or startup manager on any typical modern Android device.

It is far more productive to monitor poorly coded apps that ramp up CPU usage for extended periods of time as the most power hungry component of a device after the screen is the CPU. There are plenty of monitors like WatchDog Lite https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zomut.watchdoglite&hl=en .

Find a monitor you like but dont just start killing apps or processes because you think it's using too much RAM. Monitor the apps for freaking out and strapping the CPU, not sitting idle in memory.

Asking too much from cheaper devices is another reason the device lags or gets sluggish.

If you are rocking an Exhibit 4G with a whopping 512mb of DRAM, 1.5g of internal memory, and a single core 1ghz snapdragon then you shouldn't expect to be able to load it up with 20 apps with 2 of them being Candy Crush and Left For Dead and have the thing run well.

No manner of task killer or startup manager will ever compensate for the above scenarios, in fact they will only exacerbate the problem and accelerate how fast your battery dies.

If it bothers you then you need to decide what apps you really need and uninstall all the apps you dont want occupying your RAM. That pretty much is the only way to do a better job managing your device resources than your actual device can.

Android will still fill your RAM but I bet you will find it more responsive and stable.

 

[jungleexplorer]

DRAM is charged in parallel grids where voltage is shot across entire rows of cells at once and has to intersect a secondary charge shot across the rows in the other direction to charge it's state to over 50 percent that would be recognized as a digital 1.

Any notion of power savings that would positively impact a typical smartphone battery over its daily use is a bit of a stretch, any power savings to be had keeping RAM empty would be minuscule at best at the voltage the cells are charged to. RAM is also not storing data in neat little stacks, it gets scattered within blocks and some of the "free ram" you are trying to save may temporarily sit empty next to three other cells that may be live, and the entire row of cells has voltage passing through it anyway to keep it's neighbors live. If you have 2 gigs of RAM across 2 sticks and needle it's use to under one gig, the system will not power down the second stick.

You are asking honey bees to not fill specific cells of their comb. Sure it can be done but are you going to monitor it every second of the day to ensure success?

Sluggish devices are not the result of Android not properly managing it's resources, its often the result of running apps that make bad use of Android's resources OR the user expecting too much from a cheaper device.

You do not need a task or startup manager on any typical modern Android device.

It is far more productive to monitor poorly coded apps that ramp up CPU usage for extended periods of time as the most power hungry component of a device after the screen is the CPU. There are plenty of monitors like WatchDog Lite https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zomut.watchdoglite&hl=en .

Find a monitor you like but dont just start killing apps or processes because you think it's using too much RAM. Monitor the apps for freaking out and strapping the CPU, not sitting idle in memory.

Asking too much from cheaper devices is another reason the device lags or gets sluggish.

If you are rocking an Exhibit 4G with a whopping 512mb of DRAM, 1.5g of internal memory, and a single core 1ghz snapdragon then you shouldn't expect to be able to load it up with 20 apps with 2 of them being Candy Crush and Left For Dead and have the thing run well.

No manner of task killer or startup manager will ever compensate for the above scenarios, in fact they will only exacerbate the problem and accelerate how fast your battery dies.

If it bothers you then you need to decide what apps you really need and uninstall all the apps you dont want occupying your RAM. That pretty much is the only way to do a better job managing your device resources than your actual device can.

Android will still fill your RAM but I bet you will find it more responsive and stable.

The app that consums the most ram is Google Play. Glad to hear it is poorly coded.

To be truthful though, it is jot one app that causes the over consumption. It is a whole bunch of apps most of which come with the stock rom and cannot be turned off.

I guess you cannot see the four devices listed in my profile. Or I guess you consider the Galaxy S2, the S2 skyrocket the Sony Xperia V and the Acer A500 bottom of the line devices.

 

[WoohooGuy]

The app that consums the most ram is Google Play. Glad to hear it is poorly coded.

To be truthful though, it is jot one app that causes the over consumption. It is a whole bunch of apps most of which come with the stock rom and cannot be turned off.

I guess you cannot see the four devices listed in my profile. Or I guess you consider the Galaxy S2, the S2 skyrocket the Sony Xperia V and the Acer A500 bottom of the line devices.

You are missing the point.

I did see the devices in your profile, consider them what you will.

Root your devices and enjoy tinkering them to your hearts content, android's management of your device resources is not the problem and there is no app on the market or ever invented that will cure your perceived issues without root.

 

[Crashdamage]

Yes, you ARE missing the point. The problem is not what app(s) are using the *most* RAM - it's what app(s) are not using RAM *properly*.

Google Play certainly is NOT poorly coded...

'Overconsumption' is not really a matter of RAM usage since it matters little (unless a misbehaving app does not release RAM correctly). It might be a matter of CPU consumption if an app(s) is causing abnormally high CPU usage.

Is one?

 

[jungleexplorer]

Yes, you ARE missing the point. The problem is not what app(s) are using the *most* RAM - it's what app(s) are not using RAM *properly*.

Google Play certainly is NOT poorly coded...

'Overconsumption' is not really a matter of RAM usage since it matters little (unless a misbehaving app does not release RAM correctly). It might be a matter of CPU consumption if an app(s) is causing abnormally high CPU usage.

Is one?

Okay. I have no idea how to determine if an app is misbehaving. How can you tell this if it is not by memory consumption?

I have had a busy day and have been writing on my smartphone (which is hard for me with huge thumbs). When I get time and sit at a real computer witha keyboard, I will write a list of all the apps I have installed. I have a rule about apps that I install. Before I will install an app it must meet my minimum standards, which are, it must at least one million downloads, have over one thousand reviews and have a four star or better rating. Most of the apps I use are some of the top rated apps on the market like Aquamail and Camscanner.

 

[funkylogik]

I think it must be hard coming from a platform youre expert at to a completely different platform that goes against the things youve learned.
Please keep an open mind and be open to advice or youll never enjoy android. People are giving sound advice, not trying to patronise :beer:

 

[boathead]

so much of this is over my head, i admit it. i long ago accepted that task killers were not favored, and i left it at that.

am wondering if trim could be part of the problem. i have a device that clogs down every once in a while, and clearing cache and fixing the trim seems to help.

 

[jungleexplorer]

I think it must be hard coming from a platform youre expert at to a completely different platform that goes against the things youve learned.
Please keep an open mind and be open to advice or youll never enjoy android. People are giving sound advice, not trying to patronise :beer:

While I agree that Android is a different operating system, I just can't seem to understand why everyone insist that some how the hardware is different. The way I see it is, whether it is a full size desktop PC or a smartphone, what you have is a computer with the same essential core components. You have a motherboard, a CPU, ram memory and a storage drive. While the interface is obvioulsy different, the same basic principles apply to both.

I see android as being very parallel to Windows in the sense that it is one OS that is intended for use over a wide array of hardware from many manufacturers and programs from thousands of sources. Just like with Windows in it early stages, there were lots of problems due to all of these factors, and I feel that the same thing is true for Android.

I am not saying Android is bad. I see things for what they are. Android is a new platform in the development stage. It is not perfect and has a lot of room for improvement. But I still like it better then the alternatives because of the freedom it offers. Freedom comes with a price though.

 

[dan330]

I understand where u are coming from.
I am from the PC tech field: sales, repair, build
I can see how you are hard wired to think that way. windows was an application running on DOS. DOS sucked!

yes.. the hardware are basically the same. but the most important thing that makes the hardware come to life.. the OS.
how the OS uses and handles the hardware resources is totally different.
example: iphone and android phones... hardware are very similar. but they are so different!

Windows was designed to run apps.. load them into mem as it was required.
it did not have a way to kill off application on its own. that is why there were "exits" on in all window applications. even a bit "x" in top right corner to kill the app. and of course "task manger".
so if you did not remove it.. it was always there!

Android is based on Linux. and if you noticed.. many apps do NOT have a way to kill the app. it is because android can start apps and kill apps as it is needed. move thing in and out of working RAM. it LIKES and is DESIGNED to do it this way. you can use the back button to get out of the app but it does not mean the app has been removed from RAM.
more and more apps are getting the "quit" option in menus to kill the app... because users are asking for them. even then, android might decide to load it back to RAM.

when I moved to android.. I was like u.
I came to this site and others to find ways to keep my phone "optimized".
i came to AF as a newbie.. and i knew there are people here that know more than i.
so even if it went counter to what i thought.. i listen and learned.

i don't have a green thumb... kill every plant i had.
if i go to a website for help on plant care. if they said i did some wrong.. even if i thought it was right, i have to give them the benefit of the doubt and adjust my thinking. my plants are dying, proof that i am doing some wrong!

otherwise.. why bother asking for help?




PS. I am not saying i am an expert on android or smartphones.. not by a long shot.
there are members here that can run circles around me.. many members. they talk way over my head. i just have to ask them to dumb it down for me!

 

[funkylogik]

Im not a computer person but i think youd be better to compare it to Linux OS than Windows. Its the OS thats different, not the hardware. No one is arguing with you. Were all here to learn :beer:

 

[jungleexplorer]

I understand where u are coming from.
I am from the PC tech field: sales, repair, build
I can see how you are hard wired to think that way. windows was an application running on DOS. DOS sucked!

yes.. the hardware are basically the same. but the most important thing that makes the hardware come to life.. the OS.
how the OS uses and handles the hardware resources is totally different.
example: iphone and android phones... hardware are very similar. but they are so different!

Windows was designed to run apps.. load them into mem as it was required.
it did not have a way to kill off application on its own. that is why there were "exits" on in all window applications. even a bit "x" in top right corner to kill the app. and of course "task manger".
so if you did not remove it.. it was always there!

Android is based on Linux. and if you noticed.. many apps do NOT have a way to kill the app. it is because android can start apps and kill apps as it is needed. move thing in and out of working RAM. it LIKES and is DESIGNED to do it this way. you can use the back button to get out of the app but it does not mean the app has been removed from RAM.
more and more apps are getting the "quit" option in menus to kill the app... because users are asking for them. even then, android might decide to load it back to RAM.

when I moved to android.. I was like u.
I came to this site and others to find ways to keep my phone "optimized".
i came to AF as a newbie.. and i knew there are people here that know more than i.
so even if it went counter to what i thought.. i listen and learned.

i don't have a green thumb... kill every plant i had.
if i go to a website for help on plant care. if they said i did some wrong.. even if i thought it was right, i have to give them the benefit of the doubt and adjust my thinking. my plants are dying, proof that i am doing some wrong!

otherwise.. why bother asking for help?




PS. I am not saying i am an expert on android or smartphones.. not by a long shot.
there are members here that can run circles around me.. many members. they talk way over my head. i just have to ask them to dumb it down for me!

I understand that Android is a different operating system and works differently and cannot be treated like Windows. I was just telling how I see things. I use Linux on my PCs and I love it. The only reason I don't use it as my primary OS is because some of the major programs I use do not run on Linux even with WINE.

I was not trying start a new subject of conversation. I was just expressing how I look at a smartphone as a computer with and OS that is very young and still working aome things out. I have no problem listening and learning from people in here, but there a lot of people I have encoutered that are like little gitty girls at a rock concert when it comes to Android. Because they are so overwhelmed by their fanatical love for Android, they can't see straight or offer objective advise. They always blame any problems on user error because they can't believe that there are any imperfections with Android. They also attack anyone that says anything negative about Android because the feel that they are a soldier in a war against Apple and that it is their life mission to defend Android.

I am an mature adult and nobody's fanboy. To me a computer is a tool that helps me do get work done. I use the OS that best helps me to get that work done, but I have no loyalty to the OS itself. I think this lack of loyalty to Android showes in my writing and many people on here that do have a loyalty to Android get rubbed the wrong way because they don't feel that I am on their side in this stupid war between multitrillion dollar companies, in which they are an unpaid volunteer soldier.

The bottim line is, I am just here to fix my problem. I am not here to fight a war, defend an Idea, a product, make friends, join a community, gain respect or fight a war. I just need my phone to work smoothly so I can accomplish important work. What irritates me is that every post I make seems to turn into and idealogical debate defending android and I don't get my real questions answered.

I am sorry if attitude offends anyone. I am not trying to be offensive. I'm just trying to be honest. I am not a person who lives for electronics or to own the latest thing. I am not joined at the hip with my smartphone. Computers & electronics are simply tools of convenience for me. They are not in necessities to me. An EMP pulse from the Sun could hit the world tomorrow and destroy all micro circuitry on earth and I would you be just fine with that. In fact I think the world would probably be a better place if it did happen.

I realize that what I have said will probably get me put on a blacklist for no help. Some people will think "Well, if he does not want to be a part of our community and part of our little Android fan base why should we help him? ". I have provided computer tech support for Windows users for over 15 years and I have never required anyone to be a fan of Windows to do to give it to them. If I learn enough about Android that I am able to intelligently comment on the subject and help someone, I will do so to the best of my abilities without requiring them to be a fan of Android either. This just how I roll. You either like me or hate me, I care not.

Hopefully, this will stifle any further distraction and we can get back to the subject of this thread. Which is, why my four android devices all have the same problem of becoming sluggish and freezing. That this problem exist is undeniable. What is causing it is still to be determined. Most people feel that it is beyond the realm of possiblity that the problem could be Androids memory managment. Some have suggested a poorly written app or possibly my devices. Since the problem is spread accross four different device all of which were top of the line devices, I think we can ligically eliminate the device being the issue. So we are down to a faulty app. So how do you determine if an app is fault?

I have to go butcher and process three wild hogs so I will be busy and have bloddy hands for the rest of the day so will be some time before I can respond to any questions.

 

[funkylogik]

Im usually quite patient on here. Sorry but not on this occasion and i really cant be bothered to explain why lol.
Good luck with your devices.
Signed: over zealous blind irrational android fanboy

 

[Crashdamage]

Maybe the easiest way for you to see how apps are behaving is to install System Panel (the free 'lite' version will do) and check app RAM and CPU usage with that. Look for apps holding RAM or using high CPU cycles when not in use, particularly when system resources are low and the phone is slow.

Android has been around for a few years now and undergone extensive development by a large staff of very capable developers. While it continues to improve, I don't think it can still be called "a new platform in the development stage". It's much more mature than that.

 

[dan330]

i don't think anyone here is trying to recruit you to the war.

only one defensive.. or rubbed the wrong way.. in this thread.. is the Original Poster.
most the post here have been direct and not condescending... just direct and to the point.
we gave u what we "think" is the problem based on our individual experiences and knowledge levels.

i for one don't like crazy closed minded fanboys. but i do have opinions.
and I don't like the opposite of fanboys.. that call everyone a fanboys. just as closed minded.
it is the internet.. opinions are like ash-holes.. everyone got one. including me.

back on track...
using the same tools you used to find that "google play" is using lots of resources on your devices. other than android process and developed apps.
of the apps you downloaded and installed. what sticks out to you that is using more than necessary resources? CPU, MEM, Data..etc..
and is on all 4 of your devices.

 

[Slug]

The bottim line is, I am just here to fix my problem.

And other members are attempting to help you.

What irritates me is that every post I make seems to turn into and idealogical debate defending android and I don't get my real questions answered.

You won't get answers unless the right questions are asked. It's been pointed out that what you are experiencing isn't the norm; that's not "fanboi-ism", it's fact. Suggestions on how to isolate the cause have been offered.

That this problem exist is undeniable. What is causing it is still to be determined. Most people feel that it is beyond the realm of possiblity that the problem could be Androids memory managment.

If it doesn't happen to ALL Android devices then it ISN'T the fault of the OS. That's what others have attempted to explain.

Since the problem is spread accross four different device all of which were top of the line devices, I think we can ligically eliminate the device being the issue.

My own S2 (GT-i9100) still performed more than adequately when it was sold due to being surplus to requirements, so unless your penchant is for HD games I would tend to agree.

So we are down to a faulty app. So how do you determine if an app is fault?

A start would be a list of apps, other than the core Google ones, common to all devices. Examples of those which are demonstrating the "memory hogging" symptoms would also be helpful in determining whether the symptom is due to design, incorrect configuration or bad behaviour.