Terra Nova Query

[Bob Maxey]

I am curious and if some of you know, please elucidate and clarify.

The upcoming series, "Terra Nova" is about us humans traveling back in time to start over. Apparently, they/we do not travel to other dimensions, just earth in the past.

So if they go back, how come scientists in their future (us) did not find evidence of it? Seems logical that if a bunch of people went back in time and lived, we would know about it today because we would find evidence of an advanced civilization (us) among the bones and other things we are finding today.

Think paradox.

Anyone know if this was or will be handled by something I am missing or did the producers simply say, "Aw, screw it. Ignore the paradox and forward thinking people, they wont catch the (possible) mistakes that occur whenever one writes about travels in time and tries to deal with paradoxical problems and logic."

 

[Frisco]

In time travel stories they always seem to treat time as a road or path with a start point in the past and the "present" the end point until we travel back, then it's the new start point, even though that "present" would be in the future of the past point we arrived at.

Bent logic in those stories. Occasionally they try to address some element of it, but the usual core of the story is just about the madcap adventures more than any paradox or irony in it.

Another thing is travel into the future, a huge absurdity. H.G. Wells had his time traveler/machine vanish (even the little model with the cigar in it), as if each moment it were passing though was invisible to any observer in that moment.

The future does not exist except in our imaginations. That's true of the past, as well, if you think about it.

 

[Bob Maxey]

In time travel stories they always seem to treat time as a road or path with a start point in the past and the "present" the end point until we travel back, then it's the new start point, even though that "present" would be in the future of the past point we arrived at.

Bent logic in those stories. Occasionally they try to address some element of it, but the usual core of the story is just about the madcap adventures more than any paradox or irony in it.

Another thing is travel into the future, a huge absurdity. H.G. Wells had his time traveler/machine vanish (even the little model with the cigar in it), as if each moment it were passing though was invisible to any observer in that moment.

The future does not exist except in our imaginations. That's true of the past, as well, if you think about it.

WOW Frisco, you are all over the place. Smiley.

Actually, we never experience the immediate or present. We are always in the past because of the time it takes light and sound and Narnias to reach us. So living in the past is not the bad thing we say it is; we all live in the past.

As for the TV series, I hope they explain why what I worry about will not happen. It will bother me unless they do. Please directors, toss in a throw away line or two to ease my mind.

FYI: the same issues (for me) occurred in Terminator. Although it was explained in the book(s) as I understand it.

 

[trackball]

I'm sure the show uses time travel as a dramatic device to allow people to get eaten by dinosaurs with no mention of the physics behind time travel or the paradoxes that may result.

So if they go back, how come scientists in their future (us) did not find evidence of it? Seems logical that if a bunch of people went back in time and lived, we would know about it today because we would find evidence of an advanced civilization (us) among the bones and other things we are finding today.

Think paradox.

1. By traveling back in time, they create a new parallel universe independent of our own, or the time travel device moves the settlers into a different universe, thus they have not to worry of the grandfather paradox or butterfly effect
2. The settlement never got large nor their population grow enough, all evidence of the expedition is destroyed by plate tectonics or now at the bottom of an ocean
3. The settlement is successful and humans evolve into super beings over the millions of years and left Earth behind, destroying evidence of themselves as to not contaminate the timeline
4. It's a dream

Another thing is travel into the future, a huge absurdity. H.G. Wells had his time traveler/machine vanish (even the little model with the cigar in it), as if each moment it were passing though was invisible to any observer in that moment.

Well, we know future time travel is possible, we have observed it with atomic clocks on planes and space craft, so its not completely absurd.

What if...The HG Wells time machine created a temporary parallel dimensional bubble of space time in which time inside the bubble was dramatically slowed down. Say that this bubble takes place in the 4th physical dimension, the time traveler would disappear from the view of anyone constrained to 3 physical dimensions (think Carl Sagan and flatland, or Super Mario Bros.)

 

[Frisco]

Well, lol.. the "future" in atomic clocks is not about human events/stories, etc. Just about.. well, ok, it's too fun to dismiss.

The whole thing is fun. I even enjoy the postulate that there's no such thing as anything (hippie version: "nothing is real").

But the one about infinity is the best: infinity/eternity cannot exist because there would then be an infinite number of occurrences of all events, which is not possible if any event has a beginning and an end, like a football game.

The human mind seems to circle around and turn on itself, if we place much validity in these extremes. Mr. Bean is better.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Well, lol.. the "future" in atomic clocks is not about human events/stories, etc. Just about.. well, ok, it's too fun to dismiss.

The whole thing is fun. I even enjoy the postulate that there's no such thing as anything (hippie version: "nothing is real").

But the one about infinity is the best: infinity/eternity cannot exist because there would then be an infinite number of occurrences of all events, which is not possible if any event has a beginning and an end, like a football game.

The human mind seems to circle around and turn on itself, if we place much validity in these extremes. Mr. Bean is better.

Mr. Bean Rules. I am thinking about ordering a box set.

I was once a Mr. Bean. Then I grew out of it and now I am told I am a cross between Charlie Harper and Dr. Gregory House. Only not as sober as Mr. Harper or as nice and reserved as Greg House.

Mr. Bean Rules.

And avoid infinity discussions. They will drive me nuts. Or create a new thread.

And time travel will also start arguments and discussions that go on for infinity and then some.

 

[Frisco]

I don't see how anybody could feel right enough in a discussion about time travel to argue much about it.

 

[Bob Maxey]

[*] By traveling back in time, they create a new parallel universe independent of our own, or the time travel device moves the settlers into a different universe, thus they have not to worry of the grandfather paradox or butterfly effect

Ahh, but if you go back in time, you exist because there you are, back in time hunting grandpa. Right? Of course it is right. And eventually, you do kill your grandfather but it had no effect because there you are, you killed grandpa. You can't kill him unless you exist and you exist because there you are, you bad grandson, you.

Not very nice and I must add the Android Forums does not in any way condone killing grandpas. Just want to make that clear. Smiley.

Oh those pesky time travel paradoxicals. Quite a bit of fun, I must say.

I will bet the writers resolve the issue. I suggest a secret government agency
that knows that in the future, we will travel back in time to save some of us and start over. They hid and covered up all evidence of what our future selves did in the dim distant past. So that addresses my nits and picks.

Except for how someone in the past knows a future that has not been created. So they need a Time Vortex Bubble that does all sorts of things writers make up. Maybe one of the old unemployed Doctors can help build a Tardus.

In fact, in the future, when they build the machines that eventually take us back millions of years to start season one, they used technology this super-secret government group has uncovered over the centuries to help them develop the time travel technology.

This gives us another paradox to deal with in season 2. Season three, everyone awakes on an island that moves from place to place.

 

[A.Nonymous]

This fascinates me because this is the main argument people use to claim that time travel will never be developed. If it was ever developed, then we would see future tourists all the time. Therefore it will never be developed.

 

[trackball]

This fascinates me because this is the main argument people use to claim that time travel will never be developed. If it was ever developed, then we would see future tourists all the time. Therefore it will never be developed.

I never liked that argument because it assumes future tourists are dumb enough to be seen in the first place (which given the immense knowledge and energy required to execute the formulas for time travel, it is unlikely some kind of precautions haven't been created to make sure tourists aren't detected if tourism is even allowed at all), and our time is interesting enough for people to want to spend the energy to see it.

 

[YankeeDudeL]

My question is why they'd travel to a time frame that would eventually coexist with a mass extinction. So if they're escaping the present because there is no future, aren't they just prolonging the inevitable?

 

[Bob Maxey]

My question is why they'd travel to a time frame that would eventually coexist with a mass extinction. So if they're escaping the present because there is no future, aren't they just prolonging the inevitable?

I think we will see the increased use of technology developed by the writer's. Eventually, they will develop plot twists that allow the story to continue unabated and unquestioned.

Until the second season when everyone dies. I mean, when the show is canceled.