The Return of the Micro SD slot?

[funkylogik]

Random thought here because this debate is giving me a sore head lol.
How about an OTG storage case?
It's a stylish protective case with a flash drive in it, maybe even a card slot, maybe even an hdmi output, and the case plugs into the micro USB and has pass through for charging?

Dragons Den idea? (do you get that show in US?)

PS I've said it before but for the "power users" rooted kitkat can easily be modded to use external SD exactly how it did in JB so don't panic. Android has an excellent 3rd party development community :beer:

 

[EarlyMon]

Actually I do have a KitKat 4.4.2 phone, Gummy ROM, and I've got over 3,000 MP3s on the SD, as well as videos, photos and documents. Tthe internal storage is for the apps, some of which can also store their data on the SD, if desired, e.g. Autonavi off-line satnav which I use. The phone does USB OTG, but at moment I don't have a cable.

That goes back to what Medion said and the description of the XML fixer he posted -

"NextApp SDFix will modify the configuration file located at /system/etc/permissions/platform.xml to allow apps to write to the MicroSD card. Specifically, SDFix will add the Android UNIX group "media_rw" to the WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE permission's configuration."

Many custom ROMs are adding that one value to that one line in that one file as a matter of course.

Without it, you can still use your external SD card for music in KitKat.

With it, power users (as Medion calls us) can still access things as before, including on-board file browsers having write access everywhere.

Due to the combination of more bad guys attacking the largest mobile OS and many believing that the sky is falling, many people demanded more security, so enter security-enhanced Linux (SELinux) stage left. (And Android is a real-time embedded Linux, always has been, going back to the Android beta released in November 2007 by Google, having owned it since 2005.)

And that's what this and a lot of other complaints stem from - SELinux and corporate and consumer security concerns.

If you want more security, you're going to have less access - and it's always been that way on computers.

But as for media being usable on external SD card storage for unrooted users - yes it is, you just have fewer ways to get to it.

But you're not limited to Google media at all.

If this is broken for anyone, complain to Google or just root and solve the problem.

So long as this is associated with the new security protocols, I doubt Google will listen though.

If you don't like the strictures of SELinux, root and modify as you may. Chainfire was in the news last week leading the cause of truth and justice on that.

That sucks for people who don't want to root or can't, but there it is.

Jerry at Android Central said what Medion did pretty well too -

http://www.androidcentral.com/kitkat-sdcard-changes

While I was uninformed on the details, my original points stand as stated -

This isn't necessarily an issue, there are limits now due to security, more models are coming with the return of the SD card.

And neither Samsung nor Google nor any other one hardware supplier represents all of Android.

Android is about choice - our choice.

It's not about who sold the most.

The market demanded SD card access so it's returning.

SD Card Access 2.0 has some wrinkles.

 

[EarlyMon]

Random thought here because this debate is giving me a sore head lol.
How about an OTG storage case?
It's a stylish protective case with a flash drive in it, maybe even a card slot, maybe even an hdmi output, and the case plugs into the micro USB and has pass through for charging?

Dragons Den idea? (do you get that show in US?)

PS I've said it before but for the "power users" rooted kitkat can easily be modded to use external SD exactly how it did in JB so don't panic. Android has an excellent 3rd party development community :beer:

I'm only familiar with Dragon's Den because it was featured on The IT Crowd. :rofl:

Kickstarter is popular for crowd sourcing alternative funding.

Sounds like a good idea to me though.

 

[Medion]

however, if KitKat keeps us from moving music to the SD card, we would still be limited to the internal storage capacity of our device,

Out of morbid curiosity, what are you trying to do with music on your MicroSD that you think that you cannot do with KitKat? You can still load and play music off your SD with KitKat.

 

[nickdalzell]

can i copy my entire Amazon MP3 collection to the SD when the internal runs out? i read that even ES file Explorer cannot even create a directory on an external SD, much less change anything around. you can however read what is already there. i am not wanting to root my Note just to work around an issue that should never exist to begin with.

It would appear that it is all about Google's choice, not our choice anymore. Google Knows Best. 'One Size Fits All' why does that sound so familiar?

It really is that simple. Google couldn't kill the SD Card, so now they make it read-only unless you use one of their horrid apps with special permission to use it. on their terms, mind you.

the only workaround i see is hooking my phone to a computer, which means i need to get out my laptop and set it all up again, and sync as if i were adding music to my old iPhone via iTunes. it's not nearly as efficient or convenient as downloading an MP3 anywhere and having it save to the external SD card.

Oh, one could always stop using Google Play, or do as i do and remove all the APKs to Gapps, and use a third party market like Amazon--oh wait, Google wrote this asinine permission limit into the OS, so even if you chose not to use Play Store or the rest, you're still screwed.

This problem isn't like the GEL launcher where one could easily replace it with Nova Prime, or disable Google Play Store and use Amazon Apps, this problem is deeper than that. written at the lower levels of the APIs. and i am sure this won't be the first time Google locks Android down. they're fast becoming Apple.

 

[Medion]

can i copy my entire Amazon MP3 collection to the SD when the internal runs out? i read that even ES file Explorer cannot even create a directory on an external SD, much less change anything around. you can however read what is already there. i am not wanting to root my Note just to work around an issue that should never exist to begin with.

It would appear that it is all about Google's choice, not our choice anymore. Google Knows Best. 'One Size Fits All' why does that sound so familiar?

The easiest method to copy music to any Android device has always been to plug the phone into a desktop via USB and drag/drop. That is not restricted with KitKat.

And with KitKat, you can absolutely still copy your music from internal to SD, so long as you work around the limitations. Just load all of the music onto your MicroSD's /android/data/com.android.estrongs (or whatever the name is) subfolder, and then tell your music player of choice to load from that folder.

You're so focused on a false conspiracy theory that you refuse to look for solutions.

 

[nickdalzell]

why on earth would i want to pull out and set up my computer to get music from the internal storage to the SD card when it is so much easier to simply fire up ES File Explorer and copy one to the other? are we all going back to 1999 all of a sudden? cables, dongles, needing a desktop computer? it's the Contura Aero all over again.

the 'solutions' should not even exist. we were doing perfectly fine until Google had spoken and turned into another Apple. the 'solutions' are outdated. i remember too well having a feature phone with an SD slot and built-in MP3 player, but no ability to download from the phone to the card, or download at all as it was not a smartphone. i had to get my laptop/desktop out, download the MP3 from there, plug in the card (into a reader) and copy it from the laptop to the card, then pop the card back into the phone, reboot the phone so it'd recognize it, and go about my day.

you're suggesting a similar practice that takes 10x longer and is not nearly as efficient, or convenient if i chose to download an MP3 while hiking or traveling, or while shopping and auto-saving to the SD card, or use the internal and use an app to copy it without the need for a clunky desktop or laptop.

the USB OTG is not that different than the external, PCMCIA floppy disk drive i needed to use with my Aero to get anything onto it while i was mobile.

 

[EarlyMon]

The easiest method to copy music to any Android device has always been to plug the phone into a desktop via USB and drag/drop. That is not restricted with KitKat.

And with KitKat, you can absolutely still copy your music from internal to SD, so long as you work around the limitations. Just load all of the music onto your MicroSD's /android/data/com.android.estrongs (or whatever the name is) subfolder, and then tell your music player of choice to load from that folder.

I presume that you can organize folders under EStrongs home folder (continuing the example) for Music, Pictures, etc?

 

[Medion]

why on earth would i want to pull out and set up my computer to get music from the internal storage to the SD card when it is so much easier to simply fire up ES File Explorer and copy one to the other? are we all going back to 1999 all of a sudden? cables, dongles, needing a desktop computer? it's the Contura Aero all over again.

I can't help but notice how you rant about one solution, but completely ignored the other solution that completely addressed your concerns

 

[nickdalzell]

you're making it too complicated. whatever happened to firing up ES Explorer and copying from the internal memory to any SD card? isn't Google's own reasoning implying it to be 'less complicated' their way? sounds more complicated. i still stand on them forcing their stupid cloud down our throats. that'd be all well and good if we had 24/7 gigabit internet data everywhere.

having to pull out my computer or root my device is not acceptable.

 

[Medion]

I presume that you can organize folders under EStrongs home folder (continuing the example) for Music, Pictures, etc?

You can. You can pretty much treat the estrongs subfolder as your MicroSD card and have full R/W access under it. There are two limitations. It will fall under a .NOMEDIA file, meaning that all media will be treated as a hidden file and you'll need new gallery/music apps that can view hidden files. The second limitations is that currently only ES File Explorer can make edits to this subfolder.

There's another workaround that I'm contemplating.

1. Root
2. Run the SD fix (and save your backup XML file)
3. Unroot

Done. Back to unrooted as Nick (and I) prefer, and full R/W access to the MicroSD. The downside is that you can't install OTA with the modified XML file, so you have to repeat the process when you get your OTA notification, or when you hear about OTAs rolling out for your device. This wouldn't have an effect on Nick though, as he's made it clear that he won't be installing the next OTA on his device anyway Perfect solution for him, and it would take less time than one of his posts on this forum.

 

[Medion]

having to pull out my computer or root my device is not acceptable.

And neither was part of my second solution. I see you're still using your selective reasoning so that you can still "rage against the machine." Follow solution number 2 and just use ES to copy files from internal to SD, even under KitKat. No desktop/USB, and no root needed

 

[EarlyMon]

why on earth would i want to pull out and set up my computer to get music from the internal storage to the SD card when it is so much easier to simply fire up ES File Explorer and copy one to the other? are we all going back to 1999 all of a sudden? cables, dongles, needing a desktop computer? it's the Contura Aero all over again.

the 'solutions' should not even exist. we were doing perfectly fine until Google had spoken and turned into another Apple. the 'solutions' are outdated. i remember too well having a feature phone with an SD slot and built-in MP3 player, but no ability to download from the phone to the card, or download at all as it was not a smartphone. i had to get my laptop/desktop out, download the MP3 from there, plug in the card (into a reader) and copy it from the laptop to the card, then pop the card back into the phone, reboot the phone so it'd recognize it, and go about my day.

you're suggesting a similar practice that takes 10x longer and is not nearly as efficient, or convenient if i chose to download an MP3 while hiking or traveling, or while shopping and auto-saving to the SD card, or use the internal and use an app to copy it without the need for a clunky desktop or laptop.

the USB OTG is not that different than the external, PCMCIA floppy disk drive i needed to use with my Aero to get anything onto it while i was mobile.

First, the solution without a PC is given.

Second, setting up your sd card to use with EStrongs and another app together does not take 10x as long as anything else. Try it. I'm often juggling between internal and external storage thanks to crappy apps and I'm not running KitKat.

File and directory manipulation with EStrongs File Explorer really is a snap.

 

[nickdalzell]

the way you said to copy the file from internal to SD is over my head. first it involves this strange copy/create folder ritual, the next involves needing a special app that can read a .NOMEDIA file, which i assume my Samsung Music app cannot? there goes my voice controlled music player with skeuomorphic buttons

i think it is much easier/faster to simply move content from one folder on internal to the other folder on external. if that cannot be done i am not sure the fix? i am not going to root my new Note 3.

As for KitKat, my Note 3 already has it. Verizon has all the store models updated already. so i can only hope that 32GB internal holds out. i am not going to rely on the cloud to store anything. i want all my data accessible without an internet connection being necessary.

 

[EarlyMon]

Nick - The answer to your question was yes, you can move your Amazon music collection to your sd card using EStrongs in KitKat and still use it, no problem.

Why you don't like a yes answer that you are still arguing with completely escapes me.

It looks to me like you want the answer to be no, but it's not.

 

[Medion]

the way you said to copy the file from internal to SD is over my head. first it involves this strange copy/create folder ritual, the next involves needing a special app that can read a .NOMEDIA file, which i assume my Samsung Music app cannot? there goes my voice controlled music player with skeuomorphic buttons

i think it is much easier/faster to simply move content from one folder on internal to the other folder on external. if that cannot be done i am not sure the fix? i am not going to root my new Note 3.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

If you're using the Samsung music app, this won't work for you, unfortunately. The best option for you is the root/sdfix/root method.

You've shown that you have the capability to do this. It will take less time than one of your posts. You now have the knowledge of what you must do. Feel free to hate the change all that you want, but there is only one (simple) solution for your problem. Do or don't do it. The choice is yours. I'm not going to continue to address your posts on this issue. I consider the matter closed.

 

[Medion]

Nick - The answer to your question was yes, you can move your Amazon music collection to your sd card using EStrongs in KitKat and still use it, no problem.

Why you don't like a yes answer that you are still arguing with completely escapes me.

It looks to me like you want the answer to be no, but it's not.

It won't work for him. He can move it to the MicroSD, but it will be considered a hidden file. While apps like PowerAMP can play that music, the default Samsung music player cannot (I believe, haven't used it since 4.1, but it couldn't see hidden files back then).

 

[EarlyMon]

If you're using the Samsung music app, this won't work for you, unfortunately. The best option for you is the root/sdfix/root method.

Or another music app.

 

[nickdalzell]

well crap! i rooted to avoid the OTA on my S4, but the thing went and disabled KNOX during the root, and ever since that phone had started to get unstable and eventually i lost total access to 4G, and only had 1x. since i'm EDGE eligible, i went ahead and upgraded to the Note 3 i wanted since last December. rooting it is not an option as the experience with the S4, i do not want on the new device. rooting causes issues over time.

other music apps offer far less than Samsung's. i like the voice controls, the UI better on the Samsung app. it also does not involve downloading another that uses additional space. there are no other music apps that take its place. so sick of Google deciding what i can and cannot do. again, they're turning into Apple. for no reason.

 

[Medion]

Or another music app.

Not knocking him, but he's set in his ways. Using the new MicroSD transfer method, he'll need a workaround for music, another for his gallery, etc. The rood/sdfix/unroot method restores full R/W access for the entire SD just as it was before KitKat.

I'm too lazy to do it, but it is relatively easy. If I ever fill my internal storage, I'll consider it. But I have just shy of 6GB left now that Google Music properly uses the SD on its own.

 

[mikedt]

why on earth would i want to pull out and set up my computer to get music from the internal storage to the SD card when it is so much easier to simply fire up ES File Explorer and copy one to the other? are we all going back to 1999 all of a sudden? cables, dongles, needing a desktop computer? it's the Contura Aero all over again.

the 'solutions' should not even exist. we were doing perfectly fine until Google had spoken and turned into another Apple. the 'solutions' are outdated. i remember too well having a feature phone with an SD slot and built-in MP3 player, but no ability to download from the phone to the card, or download at all as it was not a smartphone. i had to get my laptop/desktop out, download the MP3 from there, plug in the card (into a reader) and copy it from the laptop to the card, then pop the card back into the phone, reboot the phone so it'd recognize it, and go about my day.

you're suggesting a similar practice that takes 10x longer and is not nearly as efficient, or convenient if i chose to download an MP3 while hiking or traveling, or while shopping and auto-saving to the SD card, or use the internal and use an app to copy it without the need for a clunky desktop or laptop.

the USB OTG is not that different than the external, PCMCIA floppy disk drive i needed to use with my Aero to get anything onto it while i was mobile.

Because that might be where all your tunes, TV shows and movies are stored. And in my case, probably around 500MB. Google cloud storage for music is not available here, thank you RIAA. ....just copy the songs that I want into the phone's SD, either wirelessly, or cable which is much quicker.

 

[Medion]

well crap! i rooted to avoid the OTA on my S4, but the thing went and disabled KNOX during the root, and ever since that phone had started to get unstable and eventually i lost total access to 4G, and only had 1x. since i'm EDGE eligible, i went ahead and upgraded to the Note 3 i wanted since last December. rooting it is not an option as the experience with the S4, i do not want on the new device. rooting causes issues over time.

other music apps offer far less than Samsung's. i like the voice controls, the UI better on the Samsung app. it also does not involve downloading another that uses additional space. there are no other music apps that take its place. so sick of Google deciding what i can and cannot do. again, they're turning into Apple. for no reason.

Rooting in itself causes no issues. It just leaves you more vulnerable to other issues. So, root for the SDfix, and then unroot. Done. No vulnerabilities and the sDfx persists through unrooting. You're overly complicating this for yourself

 

[nickdalzell]

i am set in my ways. it has never failed me before. the other issue is that no other music app can do what the Samsung one can. the Samsung one offers tons of features not available in another player. what i cannot grasp is why you would expect me to give up features i use to work around an issue that should never even exist! i remember when Android lovers hated Apple for not giving us an SD Slot, but when Google does it, you fail to notice how similar that policy is.

We have become so dumbed down that we never question anything. we just learn to 'get used to it'.

I will NOT root my Note 3. it killed 4G and other things on my S4. i need my 4G to get online!

 

[EarlyMon]

Rooting is just the process to get su access. It doesn't affect radios or anything else (except the corporate security flag that is Knox on some Samsungs and the bootloader lock on others).

Something got screwed up for another reason on that S4.

 

[mikedt]

well crap! i rooted to avoid the OTA on my S4, but the thing went and disabled KNOX during the root, and ever since that phone had started to get unstable and eventually i lost total access to 4G, and only had 1x. since i'm EDGE eligible, i went ahead and upgraded to the Note 3 i wanted since last December. rooting it is not an option as the experience with the S4, i do not want on the new device. rooting causes issues over time.

You know you voided the warranty by doing that, by tripping the e-fuse? One reason why I didn't buy another Samsung this time around. I prefer things a bit more open and free.