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The way people talk to each other in here

hood420 said:
You hit the nail on the head. In this country we have a mentality of "If you're not with us, you're against us." This isn't by accident. Our political system is intentionally designed to split the population down the middle, with the logic being that as long as we're fighting with each other, we won't be fighting the powers that be. Just look at what the core values of the Democratic and Republican parties are supposed to be, then look at the actual positions they take on issues, they make no sense.

George Carlin said it best:
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LOL. Thanks. That was a Good one.

I also like the following quote from Chris Rock (of all people):

"...Everybody's so busy wanting to be down with the gang. "I'm conservative", "I'm liberal", "I'm conservative". Bullshit! Be a ****ing person! Lis-ten! Let it swirl around your head. Then form your opinion. No normal, decent person is one thing, okay? I've got some shit I'm conservative about, I've got some shit I'm liberal about. Crime, I'm conservative. Prostitution, I'm liberal..."
 
Isthmus said:
LOL. Thanks. That was a Good one.

I also like the following quote from Chris Rock (of all people):

"...Everybody's so busy wanting to be down with the gang. "I'm conservative", "I'm liberal", "I'm conservative". Bullshit! Be a ****ing person! Lis-ten! Let it swirl around your head. Then form your opinion. No normal, decent person is one thing, okay? I've got some shit I'm conservative about, I've got some shit I'm liberal about. Crime, I'm conservative. Prostitution, I'm liberal..."
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Yeah, I've seen that special (Bigger and Blacker I think?). George Carlin is my favorite all-time comedian and Chris Rock is easily my favorite live comedian. They both have the ability to make you laugh and think at the same time.
 
rlb999 said:
The way people talk to each other in here and every other political forum I've ever seen, is exactly what's wrong with our country. Everybody is left or right. No one looks for a common ground to fix the problems we have.
Most people are to interested in what happens to Lindsey Lohan to realize whats happening to our country. The political backbiting doesn't solve a thing other than drive a wedge further between our people.
I have views too,but I'm always willing to at least listen to an opposing view without trying to belittle the views of someone else. Maybe I'm naive but it's better than bitter.
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An old sage once said, "You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts." Far too often, people justify their opinions and ideas by posting things they think are facts but are something else entirely. Opinions are not facts.

Do we know what the common ground is? I am not sure what we can agree on, because what often seems like an outrageous statement is actuality a factual one. If we stop looking at the facts, we will never solve anything; people do not like their sacred cattle slaughtered.

Also, if we were to do the right thing, it world hurt some folks and politicians do not get reelected by people they hurt, even if it is the best thing for the country.

For example, in my view, taxes for the rich must be cut. I would recommend the top 5 or 6 percent of wage earners/tax payers get a tax cut and the bottom 47 percent income level get absolutely no tax cut. We must cut the taxes paid by the wealthy and do nothing for the bottom half. The wealthy create jobs to provide largely unearned benefits to many of our poor. Rich people create jobs, poor people generally don't.

If a politician said this, he would have a serious problem with voters. Fact is, however, this is how it is now. The bottom 45% or so do not pay federal taxes. So cutting the taxes of someone that does not pay federal taxes is crazy, but cutting taxes of the top percentile help the poor because the rich can invest in new business and hire employees that in turn pay taxes and create more jobs by spending, and on and on and on.

Yet, politicians get elected by offering tax cuts for the poor.

Bob Says So
 
Im sorry? Americans dont meddle in others affairs, we are right now....

Do we have a reason after 50+ years to still have a base in France, or Germany? No, would we allow them to have bases in the US? Fat Chance.

The thing that people get so pissed off at America is that we seem to throw money at a lot of things more than we do hands to help. Look at Haiti for example, are we patrolling their waters and towns after the destructive earthquake that hit(that by the way people are still suffering from yet we hear nill about). No it is the Brazilians that are taking the initiative to help Haiti because the US is so embroiled in two wars where we even have to send our National Guard to help.

I agree with the OP though, I tend to steer clear of Political Forums now-adays because nothing concrete and discussion wise ever gets accomplished, it starts going and then soon falls into the pit of insults and personal attacks, which then ends the debates.
 
Familyguy1 said:
Im sorry? Americans dont meddle in others affairs, we are right now....

Do we have a reason after 50+ years to still have a base in France, or Germany? No, would we allow them to have bases in the US? Fat Chance.
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I think meddle is a tad strong. We have a presence all over the world for many different reasons. I believe it has to do with treaties and agreements that go back decades. Also, our presence helps protect countries that cannot protect themselves.

By the way, to any service men and women on the list, God's speed and thank you for your service.


Bob
 
Bob Maxey said:
For example, in my view, taxes for the rich must be cut. I would recommend the top 5 or 6 percent of wage earners/tax payers get a tax cut and the bottom 47 percent income level get absolutely no tax cut. We must cut the taxes paid by the wealthy and do nothing for the bottom half. The wealthy create jobs to provide largely unearned benefits to many of our poor. Rich people create jobs, poor people generally don't.
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This is India's economic model
40% of Indians live below so-called starvation line...
 
Didn't we try that already during the last administration? Where are the jobs?
 
electric monk said:
Didn't we try that already during the last administration? Where are the jobs?
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Where are the jobs now? ;)

Politicians talk out both sides of their mouths, we all know this. Most of the jobs that were lost in the recession were likely full time $50k+ per year jobs, but most of the jobs gained since then are probably part time minimum wage jobs (mine was one of them). Now I'm working 32 hours a week for less than $9/hr, looking for a second job to make ends meet. Unfortunately, trying to land a second job right now is nearly a lost cause. This is a simple case where 1 job =/= 1 job. See here:

unemployment.jpg


That's hardly a come-back, that's people taking what they can get because the government has completely buggered everything.

BTW, when the Bush tax cuts were enacted, the GDP went from 1.4% growth year over year to 4%+ growth year over year, and that growth was maintained until 2006 when Congress returned to Democratic control and spending skyrocketed. Bush's main economic mistake was knuckling under and signing anything the Dem's supermajority sent across his desk. And you remember how the Dem's got into power? By ignoring the economy and slandering Bush, Petreaus, anyone involved in the war that they could get away with slandering.

And don't forget, the current Democratic majority (previously a supermajority) coupled the the Obamessiah's policies have quadrupled spending, and also the national debt in just two short years. Current taxation levels can't keep up with the increase in spending. The solution isn't to cut or raise taxes, the solution is to CUT SPENDING back to 2004 levels
 
dark4181 said:
Where are the jobs now? ;)

And don't forget, the current Democratic majority (previously a supermajority) coupled the the Obamessiah's policies have quadrupled spending, and also the national debt in just two short years. Current taxation levels can't keep up with the increase in spending. The solution isn't to cut or raise taxes, the solution is to CUT SPENDING back to 2004 levels
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The key is to make the Bush tax cuts perminent with a corresponding cut in spending. People seem to think that the secret is to raise taxes to generate revenue, but we have history on our side. We have many decades of proof that make it simple: when you cut taxes, people spend and that leads to jobs.

As for where the jobs might be, they are still there. I know that many companies are looking for better employees. The company I am working for today, would hire several people if they could find folks with the required skills. Heretofore, they hired and then trained their production people.

Bob
 
America ALREADY spends (consumes) to much
While China saves too much

Basically this means its in effect the Chinese who buy US bonds.

For the US to have a viable future (w/out screwing over other countries) it needs to have a stable consumption level.
The Chinese are saving too much, and this is letting the US sustain high consumption due to
cheap personal loans.

I think the best examples of stable economies with reasonable spending and saving rates are Germany and Sweeden
Neither of these countries have ever benifitted from de-facto taking over countries etc

I suggest you look up their economic models (I'm personally a fan of Sweedens)
 
Crude said:
We honestly don't meddle as much as others would have you believe. For that matter I think ALOT of our meddling is appreciated. Look at Haiti....look how much money/supplies we sent them. In fact there are few examples where we did not defend human rights. I wish we were more isolationist ( I wish there was a big ol wall around the US ) then we are but we actually do have the means and the military. Who do you think the US turns to when they are in trouble?

You should know that I spent 14 years outside of the US, I know more about world politics then most Americans.

And by the way most places do not want our bases to leave.
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I'm pretty sure that Haiti still hasn't received a lot of the money and/or supplies the U.S. pledged months ago. I'm not exactly sure why but quite a few private charities have been set up to administer aid including one by actor Sean Penn and Bill Clinton just pledged half a million dollars (I could be wrong on that amount) to provide food, medical supplies, etc. to the capital.

As for the topic, people use message boards for all sorts of different things and a lot of the topics involve issues people have very strong opinions about. Just like it's difficult to get people to discuss any controversial topic in an orderly fashion the same holds true on message boards.

People want more accountability from their politicians and changes to the system but it's unrealistic to expect people inside the system to make a change that would appear to be against their interests.
 
3devious said:
I don't think people felt that way a few years ago where GDP dipped sharply, unemployment was and still is on the incline as is inflation.
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Scandinavian Property Crash :(

Unemployment always takes long to reduce after a crash, it was reducing steadily till the downturn

Look at the US ;)
 
Can I blame the Scandinavian Property Crash for the US, too? Blaming our own has gotten so tiresome. :D

Well, since someone in my family about 100 years ago was from Sweden...

Hey, why is everyone blaming me now?
 
Crude said:
See, I disagree with that. I think the rest of the world wants some say in what America does and it really isn't their buisness. How would you like it if Americans started telling other countries they are dumb for some thing. Each country has their problem. How can anyone hope to solve the issues over seas if they can't even vote themselves honest politicians. Prime example is our president. The world loves him and America hates him.
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I think America "hates" him and many overseas love him for two reasons: first, he has a demonstrable socialistic bent and secondly, he has a liberal mindset. He wants to model us after other socialistic countries.

America "Hates" him because we know (well, a few of us on this list hopefully know) that what will make this country great is smaller taxes, drastic spending cuts, freedom of choice, (not Obamacare) better education with honest teachers, a move towards conservatism, and we want the government out of our business.

I put Hate in quotes because I am not sure America hates him. We are very concerned with his policies. I do not hate the man, I do indeed despise his policies.

Bob "Don't Tread On Me" Maxey
 
Crude said:
It just shows how diverse America is. Peoples opinion has become a substitute for thinking instead of a result thereof.
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Absolutely true. I wish when someone posts a comment like "Rush Limbaugh is a hate monger and a liar" they would not just leave it at that; off handed comments are easy to make. I would like to see examples and sources.

Otherwise, they are just people with nothing to add to the discourse.

Bob Maxey
 
3devious said:
It's not to say that folks from other countries have no right to state their opinions, just don't expect us to do what you want.

Hell, our own government doesn't do what we want, why should you get preference!?;)

I actually welcome foreign views and try to read news from other countries, which isn't easy if it isn't in English, German or French (well, use very simple words if it's in French.) My vote that the international language be machine code was rejected. :(
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That is our fault, I'm afraid. We elect the people that serve us. Consider what would happen if most people in the country not only voted for those folks that can honestly and fairly help further the American Way, but we voted out or recalled those that did not do what they promised?

Things would change fast.

So look in the mirror to find the person responsible for electing bad people into office.

Bob "Vote For Me" Maxey
I promise endless battery life and free chicken!
 
Isthmus said:
I have to agree with what the Original Poster said. One of the things that has always bugged me about the political discourse in this country is the official lack of choices. no matter what your ideas, you are branded either a leftist or a right winger. The problem is that today, such arguments have become so polarized and disgusting that neither side seems interested in what anyone with a different opinion has to say.

I would love to see a party of the middle composed of people with common sense policies who are both right and left of center.
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I think you need to look for strong conservatives rather than liberals.

From some notes, not sure of the source but it is accurate:

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. We believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals and we generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems rather than the government."

Bob Maxey
 
Bob Maxey said:
I think you need to look for strong conservatives rather than liberals.

From some notes, not sure of the source but it is accurate:

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. We believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals and we generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems rather than the government."

Bob Maxey
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A completely free market will never work
People are flawed...
This needs to be realised

Look at the banks, IMO the state governments need to run them (although this causes political interfrence :eek:), they CANNOT be trusted sadly :(


BTW I was completely the opposite to this two years ago... Come to Ireland some day and see why I changed my mind :(
 
People are always power hungry and will always put themselves above everyone else. You have to realize this, then just live with the messed up world. It's not like it can change drastically like it needs to correct the problems at hand...

Hell, if HTC can't fix major problems with their own phones, how can the world be a better place?
 
shadowninty said:
A completely free market will never work
People are flawed...
This needs to be realised

Look at the banks, IMO the state governments need to run them (although this causes political interfrence :eek:), they CANNOT be trusted sadly :(


BTW I was completely the opposite to this two years ago... Come to Ireland some day and see why I changed my mind :(
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See, here is where some people start changing basic ideas and eventually it becomes posts that argue all sorts of bad things will happen if idea X is applied.

I agree, a completely free market will never work if we are talking about a market in which anyone can do anything with no repercussions. No conservative I know says or suggests that markets should be absolutely free and unfettered by at least some basic and common sense regulation. We need a certain amount of regulation to protect others.

For example, could I build a welding and machine shop in your neighborhood, next to your house? Could I build a retail store in the apartment unit next to yours?

Free market does not mean free for all market.

Bob Maxey
 
3devious said:
I would very much like to know what you encountered in Ireland if you don't mind sharing.
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Our banks... they lied through their teeth to us, all through the boom, they did as they pleased.
Then in the crash they hid everything... pretended the were solvent.
They werent :(

Have you heard of Anglo Irish Bank?
Its gonna cost us €35bn
Thats how much tax we collected last year :(
About 2 million people in Ireland work.
Thats €17,500 for every single one of them.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo_Irish_Bank

I swear, if I ever see these people, I'll kick the sh*t out of them
They destoyed my country's future
 
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