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This whole teathering thing...

Pricing it high to purposely limit the number of users? I see where you are coming from, but that doesn't sound like a good business plan.

"Let's price is so high that there won't be too many people buying it! That way our network wont be so stressed!"

That doesn't sound like AT&T to me, lol. :D
 
But what choice do they have? They can expand their infrastructure only so fast, so looking at it from their side, it makes sence to have heavy users finance the build-out.
 
KenG10 said:
"Let's price is so high that there won't be too many people buying it! That way our network wont be so stressed!"

That doesn't sound like AT&T to me, lol. :D
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After visiting AT&T's website and re-reading the data plans and related overage charges, I do believe you are correct and it's all about AT&T fleecing their customers for as much as they can get.

I misunderstood the tethering plan and thought that it was an additional 2GB on top of the other plan. Didn't realize that it's the same 2G, just an extra $20 for the tethering "feature". The $10 per Gig over for the two upper tier plans seems reasonable. However, $15 per 200MB for the 200MB plan is ridiculous and appears to be geared toward nothing but sapping as much money as possible out of their customers.

I still think AT&T has a network throughput issue and that's part of why they charge double for tethering, but not as much a solution to their problem, more of a way to make money off of it.

I still think that the phone providers should adopt a tiered bandwidth plan rather than a tiered usage plan. I honestly think it would be more popular and familiar with most customers and that they could get more people subscribing to higher tier plans and throw tethering out the window.

If they did something like:
$15/mo you can get 200Kbps (Edge)
$25 - 14Mbps (3G)
$40 - 56Mbps (HSPA+ 4G)
$50 - 100Mbps (LTE 4G)

I honestly think they could get more people to pay $40 or $50/mo for the higher tier bandwidth than they will get to pay $45/mo for 2G of usage and tethering. Especially when you can jailbreak/root/etc the device and get it for free.
 
IrrelevantD said:
After visiting AT&T's website and re-reading the data plans and related overage charges, I do believe you are correct and it's all about AT&T fleecing their customers for as much as they can get.

I misunderstood the tethering plan and thought that it was an additional 2GB on top of the other plan. Didn't realize that it's the same 2G, just an extra $20 for the tethering "feature". The $10 per Gig over for the two upper tier plans seems reasonable. However, $15 per 200MB for the 200MB plan is ridiculous and appears to be geared toward nothing but sapping as much money as possible out of their customers.

I still think AT&T has a network throughput issue and that's part of why they charge double for tethering, but not as much a solution to their problem, more of a way to make money off of it.

I still think that the phone providers should adopt a tiered bandwidth plan rather than a tiered usage plan. I honestly think it would be more popular and familiar with most customers and that they could get more people subscribing to higher tier plans and throw tethering out the window.

If they did something like:
$15/mo you can get 200Kbps (Edge)
$25 - 14Mbps (3G)
$40 - 56Mbps (HSPA+ 4G)
$50 - 100Mbps (LTE 4G)

I honestly think they could get more people to pay $40 or $50/mo for the higher tier bandwidth than they will get to pay $45/mo for 2G of usage and tethering. Especially when you can jailbreak/root/etc the device and get it for free.
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This price planning makes too much sense so there's no way AT&T would adopt it LOL.
 
IrrelevantD said:
The real issue is likely that the network cannot support a high number of users pulling large amounts of data simultaneously. By charging a higher rate for tethering they limit the number of people who will actually be utilizing that feature and thus limiting the bandwidth being used at any given time.
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It may be true that the network cannot support high bandwidth by many concurrent users.

The solution is, as you said later in your post, to limit the download rate at the border gateway routers (long before it hits the cell network).

Charging for tethering does NOT help limit bandwidth. If the radio in my phone can download at a certain rate to feed my laptop, then it can download at that same rate to feed the browser or other apps in the phone. Tethering is just a red herring.
 
IrrelevantD said:
Didn't realize that it's the same 2G, just an extra $20 for the tethering "feature". The $10 per Gig over for the two upper tier plans seems reasonable. However, $15 per 200MB for the 200MB plan is ridiculous and appears to be geared toward nothing but sapping as much money as possible out of their customers.
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Actually, they announced that the addition of the tethering package gets you another 2GB. So, without tethering, you get 2GB for $25, and then it's $10 per GB. So it you use over 3, and under 4, you get 4GB for $45. With tethering? You get the 2GB for $25, then 2GB more for $20, making 4GB for...$45. Tethering is now a moot point. With tiered data packages, have everyone get the 2GB for $25, and pay $10 per GB if they go over. It comes out the same in the end.
 
Demiurge said:
Actually, they announced that the addition of the tethering package gets you another 2GB. So, without tethering, you get 2GB for $25, and then it's $10 per GB. So it you use over 3, and under 4, you get 4GB for $45. With tethering? You get the 2GB for $25, then 2GB more for $20, making 4GB for...$45. Tethering is now a moot point. With tiered data packages, have everyone get the 2GB for $25, and pay $10 per GB if they go over. It comes out the same in the end.
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Went and found that press release. Cool of AT&T to do that, but I still feel like I'm being fleeced on the tethering. I've been tethering my ipad and, wife's ipod and occasionaly my laptop via MyWi on my 3GS for almost 18 months and still haven't broken 9GB of total usage, and this is a business phone that syncs with Exchange ever 15 min, 24/7. AT&T is on record as saying that 95% of their smart phone customers dont use more than 2GB/mo, give us a 2GB capped plan with Tethering for a minimal increase. Make it $30 for 2GB, we go over 3GB, they are still getting more money out of us in overages than if we were paying for 4GB.

I think I'm just pissed about AT&Ts lack of options on wireless. You look at U-verse, or their broadband internet options and there are at least 4 tiers with numerous add-ons. Here, realistically, there are two and one is nearly double the price.
 
IrrelevantD said:
Went and found that press release. Cool of AT&T to do that, but I still feel like I'm being fleeced on the tethering. I've been tethering my ipad and, wife's ipod and occasionaly my laptop via MyWi on my 3GS for almost 18 months and still haven't broken 9GB of total usage, and this is a business phone that syncs with Exchange ever 15 min, 24/7. AT&T is on record as saying that 95% of their smart phone customers dont use more than 2GB/mo, give us a 2GB capped plan with Tethering for a minimal increase. Make it $30 for 2GB, we go over 3GB, they are still getting more money out of us in overages than if we were paying for 4GB.

I think I'm just pissed about AT&Ts lack of options on wireless. You look at U-verse, or their broadband internet options and there are at least 4 tiers with numerous add-ons. Here, realistically, there are two and one is nearly double the price.
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Irrelevant if you say"9 gb" and are getting the info by going to setting and then general then usage and it says "cellular network data received". I believe that is not your "data" as far as Internet and pandora and tethering I believe that's phone calls and text messages only. Mine says 5 and on my bill I use 1.75-2gb a month
 
Actually, I am about 90% sure they can't call this tethering. Think about it, with this whole Webtop firefox thing, webtop is an application residing within the phone. The internet connection never leaves the device (phone) to be shared with any other device (even Moto's website is calling the dock an accessory). The connection stays in the phone, it is no different from sharing the radio connection with the default Android browser, both are applications the phone runs. I think once that comes out (publicly or legally or whatever) they will operate the Firefox app like Navigator or Where or any other of their fee-inducing bloatware, once opened and used it will automatically charge your bill. They will have to, because they won't be able to call it "tethering" anymore...

Just thoughts. I am pretty sure AT&T had tethering legally defined (so they could charge people for it retroactively) as "sharing a device's internet connection with another device otherwise capable of connectivity" or something like that (from back when they busted my friend) but I haven't found it yet. If it is on record as "another device" there is a legal issue here because the connection isn't "shared" at all, it stays within the applications that came stock on the device...

Here is AT&T's official definition from their help center:
http://www.wireless.att.com/answer-center/main.jsp?solutionId=KB102856&t=solutionTab

Question:
What is tethering?
Answer:
Tethering lets you use your wireless device, such as a BlackBerry or smartphone as a wireless modem for your PC. This will give you full access to the Internet and your email when you connect your device to your laptop via Bluetooth or USB cable.

We offer BlackBerry tethering plans or smartphone tethering plans that can be added to an individual or FamilyTalk rate plans, and include Wi-Fi access.

Note: Service is not available at all times in all places. View Map and Coverage Limitations
 
Willy Willy said:
Irrelevant if you say"9 gb" and are getting the info by going to setting and then general then usage and it says "cellular network data received". I believe that is not your "data" as far as Internet and pandora and tethering I believe that's phone calls and text messages only. Mine says 5 and on my bill I use 1.75-2gb a month
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Unfortunately, I don't have access to see the billing on my iPhone as it's on a corporate account, but you make a very good point. I'll have to check the billing on my wife's phone and see what it says she used vs. what's on he phone. Thanks for the info, very helpful.

s.m.knipe said:
Actually, I am about 90% sure they can't call this tethering.
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I think everyone Here will agree with you that it's not technically tethering as defined by AT&T. The problem is that as the ones providing the devices and services, they get to make the rules.
 
IrrelevantD said:
I think everyone Here will agree with you that it's not technically tethering as defined by AT&T. The problem is that as the ones providing the devices and services, they get to make the rules.
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Well my point is, they can't nail someone for violating their terms of service (by using the phone's connection for webtop) when they haven't actually broken the terms of service by their own definition. They would probably try to bust them but it could be easily fought...
 
Demiurge said:
How? By going into mandatory arbitration, with an arbiter paid by AT&T?
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Someone let's say uses the dock without the tethering plan, and AT&T adds the tethering plan by however they are going to enforce it. Said person wont notice until the end of the billing cycle, then will call and complain. At&t will pull their usual bs when dealing with complaints, said user should then go to a lawyer and point out that AT&T is forcing them to pay for a service because of an action that has nothing to do with the service, and file for an injunction to charges on their bill. AT&T will fight back with whatever, but in the end will have to create some different method of charging for webtop use. They cannot charge people because they used the webtop for" tethering" because it is not in fact tethering. They would have to either create a new webtop service plan, charge a per-use fee, or drop it altogether.
 
s.m.knipe said:
Someone let's say uses the dock without the tethering plan, and AT&T adds the tethering plan by however they are going to enforce it. Said person wont notice until the end of the billing cycle, then will call and complain. At&t will pull their usual bs when dealing with complaints, said user should then go to a lawyer and point out that AT&T is forcing them to pay for a service because of an action that has nothing to do with the service, and file for an injunction to charges on their bill. AT&T will fight back with whatever, but in the end will have to create some different method of charging for webtop use. They cannot charge people because they used the webtop for" tethering" because it is not in fact tethering. They would have to either create a new webtop service plan, charge a per-use fee, or drop it altogether.
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Your contract comes with mandatory arbitration. That's the starting point for all this. You can have grandiose dreams of a lawsuit all you like...or you can join reality. Sorry to be rude, man, but that's just how it works.

I still think it's a bit too soon to make rash decisions on what to do and how AT&T will do things. I'm still waiting to hear back from them on this issue, and I've got a whole crapload of follow up questions, depending on they answer what they've already got.
 
Demiurge said:
Your contract comes with mandatory arbitration. That's the starting point for all this. You can have grandiose dreams of a lawsuit all you like...or you can join reality. Sorry to be rude, man, but that's just how it works.

I still think it's a bit too soon to make rash decisions on what to do and how AT&T will do things. I'm still waiting to hear back from them on this issue, and I've got a whole crapload of follow up questions, depending on they answer what they've already got.
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Well keep in mind this is more or less a thought experiment, which is why I pre-cursed it with "just thoughts," so there is no "grandiose dreams of a lawsuit" as you say. Wouldn't filing an injunction begin the arbitration process...
 
IrrelevantD said:
Unfortunately, I don't have access to see the billing on my iPhone as it's on a corporate account, but you make a very good point. I'll have to check the billing on my wife's phone and see what it says she used vs. what's on he phone. Thanks for the info, very helpful.



I think everyone Here will agree with you that it's not technically tethering as defined by AT&T. The problem is that as the ones providing the devices and services, they get to make the rules.
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Besides AT&T has 2 weeks to modify the user agreement to accommodate the 'revised' definition of tethering.
 
Demiurge said:
Actually, they announced that the addition of the tethering package gets you another 2GB. ( . . . . ) Tethering is now a moot point. ( . . . . )
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That argument is a two edged sword.

If tethering is a moot point, then don't charge me for it. Let me pay $25 plus $10 per GB over. Period.


Understanding is a three edged sword.
 
DannyB said:
That argument is a two edged sword.

If tethering is a moot point, then don't charge me for it. Let me pay $25 plus $10 per GB over. Period.


Understanding is a three edged sword.
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Should have been clearer. I agree with you completely. Tethering is now a moot point, and as such, AT&T should drop the requirement to have such a plan.
 
Funny thing is the Laptop dock is tethering, but the HD Multimedia dock isn't though it also has keyboard and browsing...
 
It doesn't matter what the definition (theirs or anyones), of what tethering is. AT&T has simply stated in order to use the full firefox browser that you will have to add the additional tethering package. Just like in order to get unlimited mobile to mobile you have to have mandatory minimum packages.(both voice and text packages). This is simply stating in order to use this function they require you have that minimum package. No where do they state that it is tethering; only that you have to have that plan. So, when they catch you using it then they are within their right to charge you for it. Especially if you sign something acknowledging this. IMHO
 
Bottom line is simple, want the dock? Pay the $45 tethering charge for 4 gigs of service... that's that..
 
They can charge whatever they want. They can have whatever unconscionable contract terms they want. But consumers can fight back. Utilities are heavily regulated for a reason.

Do I want to buy that doc? Yes.

Will I agree to and pay what they are asking? No.
And I'll write a letter to the FCC.
After all, if they charge metered bandwidth, then they have no justification to charge for tethering.

They can charge whatever they want for the hardware. I'll take it or leave it.

But don't try to turn a piece of hardware into a recurring monthly charge forever and ever.
(AT&T: oh, you want this useful hardware, even though it has no effect on our network and you already pay metered bandwidth? Then pay us extra, forever, even past the life of any contract.)
 
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