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unremovable android apps using memory storage and battery ruining your cell experience

S

safetyfirst

Lurker
U.S.A. readers with a creative opinion,
Can you think of any other negative effects from the non removable bundled package apps commonly called bloatware?

The applications are those that are not required for the phone to operate. Those applications that a reasonable and logical person would put in the accessory category.
Using the criteria below, please list all applications on your phone that
1 are un removable by you the end user
2 use storage space either internally or externally (micro sd card)
3 use processor memory or clock cycles
4 use battery energy
5 send or receive data including updates or informational gathering
6 have been noticed to turn themselves on and off without your input or permission
7 interrupt you user experience while using your particular phone

A class action lawsuit may be in order to allow end users to remove these applications.
The possible lawsuit is phone independent and provider independent.
It can give back power to the end user and their own personal decision as to what is relevant to their end user experience.

Any and all positive assistance with this investigation is welcomed in this thread. haters just scroll on by.... your opinion is not necessary,welcomed or helpful here. so why post? thanks!
 
I know someone will eventually say this. Rooted phone users can remove anything and everything they want.

I read a while back, I think on Phandroid, that Sprint was going to allow users to remove any pre-installed software that had nothing to do with Sprint i.e. games, messengers, and the like. I don't know if it was ever implemented though.

Personally, I agree with you. If I pay for the phone, I should be able to add and remove things without having to violate certain terms of a contract or warranty.
 
There is a practice called "cramming" that carriers have gotten in trouble over before, and will again, and they are still doing it on Android.

I just had a friend get a Droid Incredible 2 that was loaded with many apps with the sole purpose to try and sign you up for a pay service.

Oddly, one of the apps forced a window alert asking if I wanted the pay service, but when I said "No" it actually politely uninstalled itself. Was very strange. It was rude as heck, then very polite.

Anyways there are a few good articles on this at Ars Technica, one posted today:

Crime doesn't pay? It does if you're a phone crammer

Does net neutrality protect mobile tethering apps?

And another by David Pouge (tech columnist for New York Times) from 2009 on flip phones:
Verizon Responds to Consumer Complaints - NYTimes.com


FCC.gov info:
FCC Investigation Into Verizon Wireless "Mystery Fees" Results in Record Settlement | FCC.gov
 
safetyfirst said:
3 use processor memory or clock cycles
4 use battery energy
5 send or receive data
6 have been noticed to turn themselves on and off without your input or permission
7 interrupt you user experience while using your particular phone
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed apps that do any of these. Note that just because an app is listed under Running Applications, that doesn't mean it is doing anything. Also, even if the app can't be uninstalled, I have been able to disable the sync so that no data is being used.

Perhaps you could give me an example of an app on your phone that meets any/all of your criteria #3-7?



For number 7, the only thing that "interrupts my experience" is that they possibly annoy someone by taking space in the app drawer.
 
amlothi said:
For number 7, the only thing that "interrupts my experience" is that they possibly annoy someone by taking space in the app drawer.
Click to expand...


There's a Verizon one that does this I think -- pops a message asking if you want Caller ID at $2.99/m

Thought it could have been that my frined accidentally launched the app. Still even if that were the case the bloatware was like half the apps in the app drawer on a new phone.

*shrug*

Part of why I dig stock/vanilla I guess -- and understand how people are adamant about unlocking bootloaders.
 
There's quite a few bloat apps I'd like to remove out of stubbornness, I can't of any that actually have a negative impact on the running of the phone. I'd just like to get rid of all the 'social networking' apps, latitude etc that I will never use and indeed can't see any point in supply preinstalled on a phone.
My only real annoyance is Maps tendancy to update whether or not you want it to - the downloads tend to be large and eat into my 3g alowance ( since it seems to ignore prefs for wifi ). It's bleedin' annoying but not worth the expense and time that a class action suit would involve, if I was really that bothered I'd have got round to rooting the phone.
 
basalt said:
There's quite a few bloat apps I'd like to remove out of stubbornness, I can't of any that actually have a negative impact on the running of the phone. I'd just like to get rid of all the 'social networking' apps, latitude etc that I will never use and indeed can't see any point in supply preinstalled on a phone.
My only real annoyance is Maps tendancy to update whether or not you want it to - the downloads tend to be large and eat into my 3g alowance ( since it seems to ignore prefs for wifi ). It's bleedin' annoying but not worth the expense and time that a class action suit would involve, if I was really that bothered I'd have got round to rooting the phone.
Click to expand...

1) Latitude is part of maps. You can't only remove Latitude. This is the one negative point of the Google Maps application - Google wraps everything into one app.

2) You can prevent the automatic updating by going to the Market, finding Google Maps, and unchecking the "Automatically Update" setting. On my ROM, this was turned on by default also. Once I found that, it hasn't been a problem.
 
safetyfirst said:
A class action lawsuit may be in order to allow end users to remove these applications.

Any and all positive assistance with this investigation is welcomed in this thread.
Click to expand...

So were you planning to share the large legal fees you hope to earn in the suit with all the helpful people?

haters just scroll on by.... your opinion is not necessary,welcomed or helpful here. so why post? thanks!
Click to expand...
Wow! It's always nice when first-time posters tell us how to behave in our forums.

You've actually received some very helpful advice, however. You might want to do a search on "task killers" to get a better idea how the Android operating system works. Amlothi's first post describes the situation well. Like basalt, I'd like to get rid of the craplets just because, but they don't reduce the performance of my phone.
 
If I purchased an unsubsidized phone that had uninstallable bloatware, I would be more inclined to agree with you. The vast majority of us, probably near 100% in the US, buy subsidized devices under contract. One of the ways that the providers try to recoup that subsidy is by installing what they think will be revenue increasing apps. Fortunately, most devices can be rooted and the bloatware removed. There has also been a trend lately with the providers reducing the amount of bloatware they're installing, probably because it's not proving as profitable as they thought. Vote with your wallet. There's no lawsuit here IMHO!
 
Verizon installs City ID (I think its called), which tells the city of the incoming call. They gave a month of free service and then wanted money. I said no and haven't had it do anything since. These apps will always come on phones just like they do on PC's. The best we can hope for is to be able to remove them without violating the warranty, like on a PC. The majority of people will not remove them, just like on a PC.
 
safetyfirst said:
Those applications that a reasonable and logical person would put in the accessory category.
Click to expand...
"Necessary" versus "accessory" is a matter of personal preference. "Reason" and "logic" have nothing to do with it. Never assume that your preferences are universal no matter what the topic.

safetyfirst said:
A class action lawsuit may be in order to allow end users to remove these applications.
Click to expand...
You haven't been involved in any, have you? It's not a practical solution nor even a viable "creative" solution.

safetyfirst said:
Any and all positive assistance with this investigation is welcomed in this thread. haters just scroll on by.... your opinion is not necessary,welcomed or helpful here. so why post? thanks!
Click to expand...
If you don't want replies, don't post a thread. Otherwise, threads are open for all to comment on whether you like it or not. You could set up your own forum site if you want to create your own rules.
 
pastafarian said:
If I purchased an unsubsidized phone that had uninstallable bloatware, I would be more inclined to agree with you. The vast majority of us, probably near 100% in the US, buy subsidized devices under contract. One of the ways that the providers try to recoup that subsidy is by installing what they think will be revenue increasing apps. Fortunately, most devices can be rooted and the bloatware removed. There has also been a trend lately with the providers reducing the amount of bloatware they're installing, probably because it's not proving as profitable as they thought. Vote with your wallet. There's no lawsuit here IMHO!
Click to expand...

Depends on the OS. Trying to root a Symbian phone is the pits, and who knows what MS allows.

I did purchase 2 unlocked phones from Amazon. Facebook was on both. Nokia's answer was we put it there and you can't remove it. (You can forbid it and bury the stupid icon so you don't see it)
The Galaxy S3 I can root.

So it's not just the carriers cramming, it's also the makers of the phone.
 
pastafarian said:
If I purchased an unsubsidized phone that had uninstallable bloatware, I would be more inclined to agree with you. The vast majority of us, probably near 100% in the US, buy subsidized devices under contract. One of the ways that the providers try to recoup that subsidy is by installing what they think will be revenue increasing apps. Fortunately, most devices can be rooted and the bloatware removed. There has also been a trend lately with the providers reducing the amount of bloatware they're installing, probably because it's not proving as profitable as they thought. Vote with your wallet. There's no lawsuit here IMHO!
Click to expand...

Well, if you go into a Verizon/AT&T store and buy a phone OFF contract, it will be the EXACT same phone that the guy beside you got ON contract. That is, your phone will have ALL of the bloatwares. Carriers in the US and Canada aren't like in Europe/UK where they have subsidized and unsubsidized phones for the same model that you can buy. You get the phone they give you with all of their bloatwares glory with or without a contract.
 
pastafarian said:
If I purchased an unsubsidized phone that had uninstallable bloatware, I would be more inclined to agree with you. The vast majority of us, probably near 100% in the US, buy subsidized devices under contract. One of the ways that the providers try to recoup that subsidy is by installing what they think will be revenue increasing apps. Fortunately, most devices can be rooted and the bloatware removed. There has also been a trend lately with the providers reducing the amount of bloatware they're installing, probably because it's not proving as profitable as they thought. Vote with your wallet. There's no lawsuit here IMHO!
Click to expand...

I personally dont think it has anything to do with subsidies though. I'm 99% sure they recoup that in the contract. It would be fiscally irresponsible of them to plan to recoup subsidy prices through bloatware, which has a variable return.

Also, the phone becomes your property after contract. So why should a carrier be allowed to designate "Blockbuster" as an uninstallable system app on a phone they are only partially paying for. Wouldn't that be (a bit) like a bank telling you that you have to use Comcast until you finish paying your mortgage (or something similar)?

The major difference with a lot of PC bloatware is you just hop into add/remove programs and, bam it's gone.


Anyways, in a link I posted above it talks about how Verizon lost a battle with the FCC over this very issue, so it's not unprecedented. They made it easy for users to accidentally hit the "mobile web" button on old flip phones a few years back and charged them all 1.99 for accessing the mobile web even if the user cancelled the process.

Another link talks about how they are allowing fradulent carges to go through because they make commission on each sale.

I personally see the trend going towards more bloatware too. I'm confused that you see it going the other way. :confused: Especially re:tethering apps and just seeing what apps were put on phones in 2009 vs today.


As for class action suits though, you're correct, it's probably not possible -- but for a different reason: AT&T sued to make them not have to fight class action lawsuits, and they won, in the Supremem Court:

Supreme Court: AT&T can force arbitration, block class-action suits


Still, I 100% agree that people should vote with their wallets and buy Nexus phones and/or see if Sprint lives up to it's deal of making all bloatware uninstallable sometime "soon." And especially buy off contract. Problem is, anyone who was without contract is now going to start getting hit with all the new data caps.


Anyways, these threads tend to attract a lot of passionate discussion, and that's a good thing. And while I think the "haters 'ought to roll on by" was a bit much, I think it's good to try and see all sides of the issue. Obviously some people dont mind these apps, and that's cool.

But I think this is a serious problem that deserves some intervention, by users, and the government. Maybe not a class action suit, but some regulation and mass defection to Sprint (assuming they hold their end of the bargin) and/or a block of the AT&T/T-mobile merger, could do a lot to improve things.

Also @ pasta you should check the guides forum, someone installed some bloatware in there for you! :)
 
Darkseas, I am a end user not a lawyer and all who are included in the lawsuit are given the possible award. the lawyers are the receivers of the lions share of the award , and rightly so. the end users gets much less money, and a better user experience.its likethe pc computer of today , totally open to any addition or removal of applications without voiding any warranty. a win win for us and any future generations.
 
Didn't Microsoft got into trouble for including applications in its operating system that were impossible to remove and were the default application? and were those applications necessary for the operating system to operate the desktop or laptop computer? and do the owners of the computers have to pay a price for data access to the web for those applications?As you use all the creative connections in your mind to explore all the possibility's about these questions you see before you,are there any parallels here?
 
safetyfirst said:
Didn't Microsoft got into trouble for including applications in its operating system that were impossible to remove and were the default application? and were those applications necessary for the operating system to operate the desktop or laptop computer? and do the owners of the computers have to pay a price for data access to the web for those applications?As you use all the creative connections in your mind to explore all the possibility's about these questions you see before you,are there any parallels here?
Click to expand...

Indeed! This means there's a precedent. I too HATE the way my HTC Wildfire is full of crapware I can't remove. Maybe these apps don't use up resources, but the very fact that they are on my phone without me wanting them, just pisses me off.

End users should not be forced to root their phones to get them the way they want them. Google and/or HTC (in my case) should include options to uninstall anything that's not essential.

I realise it will be kinda Don Quichote fighting windmills tho.

Just my opinion ...
 
100,000 don Quixote's are a army to be reckoned with
200,000 is a grass roots movement
400,000 is a noticeable slice of market share
1,000,000 is a mass continuousness
DONT get involved just for you, and for your friends and for your family and for all the FUTURE GENERATIONS of those mentioned above,
just get involved for all of those now and in the future
who are pissed off because
we have no way to delete applications on our phones.
 
safetyfirst said:
Didn't Microsoft got into trouble for including applications in its operating system that were impossible to remove and were the default application?
Click to expand...

The got in trouble for IE and it's being embedded into the Windows OS. However, the reason they got in trouble was not because IE was "impossible to remove" or because it was the "default application".

If Microsoft had been using Netscape as the default, pre-installed browser that couldn't be removed, there would never have been an issue.

The problem was that MS had a virtual monopoly on computer OS market, and was using that to unfairly compete with Netscape (and others) in the browser market.

It's a completely unrelated thing, and really not a good analogy for the problem we have with bloatware.
 
Roze said:
Well, if you go into a Verizon/AT&T store and buy a phone OFF contract, it will be the EXACT same phone that the guy beside you got ON contract. That is, your phone will have ALL of the bloatwares. Carriers in the US and Canada aren't like in Europe/UK where they have subsidized and unsubsidized phones for the same model that you can buy. You get the phone they give you with all of their bloatwares glory with or without a contract.
Click to expand...

The Galaxy 3 I bought was European. I had to switch the language from Czech to English. It still had FB, and other unnecessary stuff on it. So I'm concluding Samsung put it on since the phone was unlocked and unbranded.
 
Amlothi are you living in the united states? My us version of microsoft operating system had the problems reffered to in my previous post.My PERSONAL experience with the os is also referred to in the previous post . I am speaking of my own personal experience. Now that we have choices on which programs we can use in pc desktops and notebooks. Something had to happen to cause this change.I am seeking the "something that caused the change" for my hand held pocket communicating computer just like my desktop and notebook.From where I stand it all seem related.........hope you can allow yourself the ability to make the connection.
computing since windows 3.0 286/10
 
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