Your liberty to do whatever you wish with your income comes under attack when the government starts ordering you to buy this and buy that with it.
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We should privatize the fire department
- Thread starter FreakyLocz14
- Start date
Your liberty to do whatever you wish with your income comes under attack when the government starts ordering you to buy this and buy that with it.
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Dark Jedi
Guest
But your ok for a person that dont want fire protection to have his neighbors to sue them and have the government ran court system to force them to pay it. You need to pick a side and stick with it.
The government does have the power to take away our liberty under some circumstances. For example, a person's liberty is taken away when they are incarcerated for committing a crime. The difference between sweeping mandates like Obamacare and a court order is that the person's constitutional right to due process of law was honored via him or her being able to present evidence of their behalf, cross-examine opposing witnesses, etc. when a court of law makes the decision. Under the Obamacare mandate, I don't get my day in court before I am forced to purchase health insurance against my will.
Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Ya swap some liberty for more liberty. I wonder how many accident victims have been left devastated financially in the US.
And look at the health insurance situation lol
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Your will is to not provide any cover for yourself and be a leech?
I already have health insurance, kthxbai.
D
Dark Jedi
Guest
But you say the govenment shouldnt have the power to take our liberties away. You are against obama care, You are against the Gov banning circumcision, You are against the Gov banning same sex marrages. You cant have your cake and eat it too.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
So you want others to not get insurance, to drive costs for you (certainly when your older) up?
It is your will to let people go bankrupt over cancer?
I would like others to get insurance, but it is not the government's place to force people to buy it. People should be buying it through their own free will. If they don't they can deal with paying out of pocket if they get sick.
People going bankrupt over cancer is terrible, yes, but that is their own doing for not securing health coverage on their own. We are masters of our own destiny and we suffer the consequences when we make poor choices.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Not everyone can afford the outrageous cost of Insurance in the US.
Even if they have it the company will try to get rid of them.
Don't kid yourself kid.
_mw_
Android Enthusiast
Yeah, I completely agree. Just because you're 18, fresh out of school and have just entered the workforce at your local fast food restaurant, shame on you for not having major medical insurance.
So how does forcing them to pay for it help them if they can't afford it?
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
Because the government subsidies the premium ^_^
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Dark Jedi
Guest
Didnt obama say that under his plan it will be affordable to all the people regardless of income?
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Dark Jedi
Guest
I guess you forgot about medicare and medicaid?
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
I have no idea tbh.
Medicare and Medicaid have been around for decades before Obamacare was passed. I don't see what your point is.
We cannot be sure that those people can afford the premium, even with a subsidy. The government is notorious for setting income thresholds very low so that you have to be pretty much dirt poor to qualify. For example, I receive financial aid to go to college, but I still have out of pocket expenses that I have to hustle to afford because the government does whatever they can to avoid helping me and other like me out.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Someone not having fire insurance doesn't harm me. Until a fire breaks out. Then I am severely harmed.
Isthmus
Android Expert
Are people truly advocating for privatized fire departments that would refuse service if you lack adequate insurance or no insurance at all?
Ah sorry mama, we will need to see your insurance card before we can put out that fire or take little timmy to the hospital. If not we'll just hand you the bill. you can declare bankruptcy later.
I get that costs need to be cut, but isn't it wiser to maybe reduce coverage areas or staff (or simply look for other costs to cut), before pritizing certain essential services? I'm all for free markets, but lets be realistic here, somtimes some services are better run (or make better sense to be run) by the public sector.
IMHO this is one of them.
That said, I don't think that it is a proper use of the public wallet to say use the fire engine for the firehouse staff to go grocery shopping (something you see all over town where I live). That and many other things are wasteful uses of public resources.
Ah sorry mama, we will need to see your insurance card before we can put out that fire or take little timmy to the hospital. If not we'll just hand you the bill. you can declare bankruptcy later.
I get that costs need to be cut, but isn't it wiser to maybe reduce coverage areas or staff (or simply look for other costs to cut), before pritizing certain essential services? I'm all for free markets, but lets be realistic here, somtimes some services are better run (or make better sense to be run) by the public sector.
IMHO this is one of them.
That said, I don't think that it is a proper use of the public wallet to say use the fire engine for the firehouse staff to go grocery shopping (something you see all over town where I live). That and many other things are wasteful uses of public resources.
They are the ones who are harmed. You won't be if you do have protection.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
What about the neighbour who cant pay the insurance >_>
Isthmus
Android Expert
What if it is your neighbor and their fire damages your house and you can't look to their insurance to cover damages because they have none. This forces you to go to your insurer. Sure, they'll cover you, but you should expect your premiums to increase when time comes to renew your coverage. That is not fair to you who was responsible, yet it happens every single day in this country. Just like at the problems caused by uninsured motorists. its basically the same concept.
The Court has ruled that there are some situations where the taking of liberty is warrantd (i.e. imprisonment, child custody, revoking one's driver's license, search and seizure, evicting someone from there home, etc.), but the person must have their due process rights be honored beforehand. Someone who was that extreme of a libertarian would be against imprisoning rapists and murders under the guise of liberty. Even I am not that far to the right.
Now show me how people receive due process of law before being subjected to the Obamacare mandate, then your argument wouldn't be a straw man.
ElasticNinja
Android Expert
If you could challenge it and win the whole thing would be flawed. Duh
Challenging the law in court and winning means the law is unconstitutional like I've been saying all along. That's not what I'm talking about with Dark Jedi, though.