We're screwed. 2GB is the threshold for so called "network optimization/throttling"

[dirkbonn]

Correction: There is TOO LITTLE competition amongst wireless carriers. Especially after ATT gobbles Tmo

Just curious, but what is, in your opinion, the correct amount of compitition? 5? 17? 83?

Remember the days with the "big 3" auto manufacturers? Don't recall anyone saying there was to little compitition.

Just FYI, AT&T withdrew their application to the FCC to "Gobble up" T-Mobile.

One more thing.....

"Compitition leads to the elimination of compitition" (ever played monopoly?)

Best of luck to all of us!

"Isn't fun the best thing to have?" Quote by Arthur from the movie by the same name. (the original movie Arthur, with Dudley Moore)

 

[IOWA]

Just curious, but what is, in your opinion, the correct amount of compitition? 5? 17? 83?

Remember the days with the "big 3" auto manufacturers? Don't recall anyone saying there was to little compitition.

Just FYI, AT&T withdrew their application to the FCC to "Gobble up" T-Mobile.

One more thing.....

"Compitition leads to the elimination of compitition" (ever played monopoly?)

Best of luck to all of us!

"Isn't fun the best thing to have?" Quote by Arthur from the movie by the same name. (the original movie Arthur, with Dudley Moore)

Competition is when two players who own > 70% of the countries market, more spectrum than any other network combined, and exhibit anti-competitive practices on a regular basis aren't allowed to purchase competitors. ESPECIALLY when those two competitors are essentially the same company. (Ma' Bell)

 

[dirkbonn]

Competition is when two players who own > 70% of the countries market, more spectrum than any other network combined, and exhibit anti-competitive practices on a regular basis aren't allowed to purchase competitors. ESPECIALLY when those two competitors are essentially the same company. (Ma' Bell)

So you're sayin' Verizon and AT&T are one company? Maybe you should enlighten the boards of Directors of these two companies. The SEC would be and interested party too.

However, if what you say is true, You should fire off a letter to the FCC and complain to them for allowing this to happen. Just your friendly government looking out for your welfare.....

"Isn't fun the best thing to have?" Quote by Arthur from the movie by the same name. (the original movie Arthur, with Dudley Moore)

 

[IOWA]

So you're sayin' Verizon and AT&T are one company? Maybe you should enlighten the boards of Directors of these two companies. The SEC would be and interested party too.

However, if what you say is true, You should fire off a letter to the FCC and complain to them for allowing this to happen. Just your friendly government looking out for your welfare.....

"Isn't fun the best thing to have?" Quote by Arthur from the movie by the same name. (the original movie Arthur, with Dudley Moore)

Look at where both these companies come from and you tell me. Ever since the ma bell breakup all thats been happening is a reconsolidation of the baby bells over the last two decades. When two companies charge pretty much the same thing for thier product, follow each others moves within months (tiered data, removal of customer perks etc), and dont do much to compete with each other aside from lining regulators pockets with "campeign contributions" there isnt much of a difference between one company or two companies. A duopoly is just as bad if not worse than a monoply.

 

[tbzj7]

Being on a unlimited 4g plan right now, and hardly any access to wifi, I'm glad I'm good, and being in that supposed 5% with 6+ gb, and not living in a congested area, but I don't like how they say - How long will 2GB of data be the threshold?We will update this number as the amount of data used by our customers changes over time. At that time, we will also update information on this website. - and - Does Network Optimization apply to customers using 4G services?No. We reserve the right to include 4G LTE users later, but right now this only applies to the top 5% of users with unlimited data plans using 3G devices. If you have a 4G LTE device you will not be affected at this time. -

Which means after they get everybody on a 4g device they'll change it to where 4g devices will soon be affected too. Also like how they say to be exempt from this you should change from an unlimited plan to a new data plan with caps basically, ha idiots. Also the top 5% is bull because it hasn't been very long since phones have been able to actually use a lot of data, therefore the 95% of customers have basically a voice plan with hardly no need for data. Then again won't be long before things change, one thing, hopefully since everyone will using more and more data as time goes by, Verizon will keep their 5% rule, so that number or data amount will keep going higher. But more than anything I hope they keep it where if you're not on a congested site then your speed won't change, because I never will be on one hardly. Btw, YouTube in hq streams fine for me most of the time without buffering on 3g networks around here

 

[Yeahha]

So you're sayin' Verizon and AT&T are one company? Maybe you should enlighten the boards of Directors of these two companies. The SEC would be and interested party too.

However, if what you say is true, You should fire off a letter to the FCC and complain to them for allowing this to happen. Just your friendly government looking out for your welfare.....

"Isn't fun the best thing to have?" Quote by Arthur from the movie by the same name. (the original movie Arthur, with Dudley Moore)

AT&T and VZW are potentially the same company. They were both born from the Bell System breakup in 1984. more info

Sorry to hear about your issues with VZW, they implemented Network Optimization in Feb 2011. They offer a larger tiered service that would allow you to use more than 2GB of data without being throttled however any changes to your throttled status would not go into effect until your next billing period.

 

[dirkbonn]

AT&T and VZW are potentially the same company. They were both born from the Bell System breakup in 1984. more info

Sorry to hear about your issues with VZW, they implemented Network Optimization in Feb 2011. They offer a larger tiered service that would allow you to use more than 2GB of data without being throttled however any changes to your throttled status would not go into effect until your next billing period.

Sorry but being potentially the same company and being the same company are two different things. There were 6 separete companies made when the government broke up the old Ma Bell. Most have gone away thru consolidation. (Like I said, "Compitition leads to the elinination of compitition!" GM and Ford are potentially the same company (cuz they both design/build/sell cars) but they are not the same company.

Also if you're sorry to hear about my issues with VZW, you are mistaken. I have no issues with VZW. I've been with them since the mid '90's and have always been happy with the service and phones I have gotten from them.

I just really hope everyone get's what they want. Working hard will get you your best shot at it.

Best of Luck,

 

[IOWA]

Sorry but being potentially the same company and being the same company are two different things. There were 6 separete companies made when the government broke up the old Ma Bell. Most have gone away thru consolidation. (Like I said, "Compitition leads to the elinination of compitition!" GM and Ford are potentially the same company (cuz they both design/build/sell cars) but they are not the same company.

Also if you're sorry to hear about my issues with VZW, you are mistaken. I have no issues with VZW. I've been with them since the mid '90's and have always been happy with the service and phones I have gotten from them.

I just really hope everyone get's what they want. Working hard will get you your best shot at it.

Best of Luck,

You're failing to grasp the concept of the AT&T/VZW history/relationship.

 

[dirkbonn]

You're failing to grasp the concept of the AT&T/VZW history/relationship.

No, I get that. I know the history, but....

I think you're failing to see that they are now two seperate companies, with seperate boards of directors, etc. The SEC says they are separate. The FCC says they are separate. Are you saying you think the boards get together in a backroom somewhere and make decisions together? That is colusion and is illegal. Do you truely think they get together and make decisions that way? And so far have just not been caught.... I'm not saying it couldn't happen, it just that to many people would have to be involved in the coverup and someone with integrity would "spill the beans" so to speak.

So.... I really think I'm not going to change your mind on this subject and vice-versa, so I will say this..... It's been a pleasure discussing this with you.

On an off topic thought, if you're from Iowa, I did live in Cedar Rapids for about 4-5 years growing up. I live in Hawaii now, and like it. No snow to shovel.... haha. But we have hurricaines sometimes..... oh well, best of luck!

Edit: Duh, I just looked at the left side of you post and see you're now in Chcago. Watched the Bear/Denver game today.... UGH. I'm a bear fan cuz I went to high School in Arlington Heights. Loved watchin' the '85 Bears win the super Bowl. Remember the superbowl shuffle?

 

[IOWA]

No, I get that. I know the history, but....

I think you're failing to see that they are now two seperate companies, with seperate boards of directors, etc. The SEC says they are separate. The FCC says they are separate. Are you saying you think the boards get together in a backroom somewhere and make decisions together? That is colusion and is illegal. Do you truely think they get together and make decisions that way? And so far have just not been caught.... I'm not saying it couldn't happen, it just that to many people would have to be involved in the coverup and someone with integrity would "spill the beans" so to speak.

So.... I really think I'm not going to change your mind on this subject and vice-versa, so I will say this..... It's been a pleasure discussing this with you.

On an off topic thought, if you're from Iowa, I did live in Cedar Rapids for about 4-5 years growing up. I live in Hawaii now, and like it. No snow to shovel.... haha. But we have hurricaines sometimes..... oh well, best of luck!

Edit: Duh, I just looked at the left side of you post and see you're now in Chcago. Watched the Bear/Denver game today.... UGH. I'm a bear fan cuz I went to high School in Arlington Heights. Loved watchin' the '85 Bears win the super Bowl. Remember the superbowl shuffle?

Now thats funny. I live in Arlington Heights. Never stepped foot in IOWA.

 

[dirkbonn]

Now thats funny. I live in Arlington Heights. Never stepped foot in IOWA.

How long have you lived in AH? I heard they closed Arlington High around 1985. Arlington was aging and not enough high school age kids to justify keeping it open. I lived on chestnut ave between central and kirchoff.

Why the screen name IOWA if you've never set foot in the state?

 

[IOWA]

How long have you lived in AH? I heard they closed Arlington High around 1985. Arlington was aging and not enough high school age kids to justify keeping it open. I lived on chestnut ave between central and kirchoff.

Why the screen name IOWA if you've never set foot in the state?

Slipknot- Iowa (Full Version) w/Lyrics - YouTube

Been in AH for about 8 months.

 

[GSX]

Being on a unlimited 4g plan right now, and hardly any access to wifi, I'm glad I'm good, and being in that supposed 5% with 6+ gb, and not living in a congested area, but I don't like how they say - How long will 2GB of data be the threshold?We will update this number as the amount of data used by our customers changes over time. At that time, we will also update information on this website. - and - Does Network Optimization apply to customers using 4G services?No. We reserve the right to include 4G LTE users later, but right now this only applies to the top 5% of users with unlimited data plans using 3G devices. If you have a 4G LTE device you will not be affected at this time. -

Which means after they get everybody on a 4g device they'll change it to where 4g devices will soon be affected too. Also like how they say to be exempt from this you should change from an unlimited plan to a new data plan with caps basically, ha idiots. Also the top 5% is bull because it hasn't been very long since phones have been able to actually use a lot of data, therefore the 95% of customers have basically a voice plan with hardly no need for data. Then again won't be long before things change, one thing, hopefully since everyone will using more and more data as time goes by, Verizon will keep their 5% rule, so that number or data amount will keep going higher. But more than anything I hope they keep it where if you're not on a congested site then your speed won't change, because I never will be on one hardly. Btw, YouTube in hq streams fine for me most of the time without buffering on 3g networks around here

The way to read that is, when the iPhone goes to 4G and all the clones stand in line for 5 days to get it, 4G will be included in Data Optimization. Until then, enjoy your unlimited 4G Verizon service.

 

[Yeahha]

The way to read that is, when the iPhone goes to 4G and all the clones stand in line for 5 days to get it, 4G will be included in Data Optimization. Until then, enjoy your unlimited 4G Verizon service.

I don't think network optimization will hit 4G devices for a while if at all. The block C open access provisions google had added to the auction for block C should prevent it. I think VZW is currently fighting to get some of the provisions removed but it will be a difficult battle for them IMO.

 

[no cigar]

Quite frankly, when I signed my contract 2 years ago for unlimited internet, I figured that's what I was getting. If VZ didn't have the infrastructure in place to handle the demand, it's their fault. To me that is the whole krux of the issue. Had they one single shred of intelligence, they would have figured right away it was best to limit the bandwidth because if not it would be like a wildfire. Which is was. Their only option was to eliminate the unlimited service, and furthermore place a de facto 'limitation' on those that signed contracts for unlimited data. To me that is a clear re-neg of the contract.

Even more sad is the mantra of voting with your wallet. Yeah right. Look at the s**t storm Netflix had when they jacked up their prices and split the mail/streaming services -- did that prompt any change? Hell no. These companies are so huge and are hoarding so much cash they can practically ride out just about any controversial customer service blunder. I think personally, consumers ought to be able to show up at the corporate HQ with bats and pitchforks looking for blood. Maybe they'd get the idea then -- screw the government intervention just let the customers take care of it themselves.

 

[Crude]

The real issue here is the two year contracts. Verizon was capable of one year contracts and they went away...why? When under the contract you are stuck.
I buy a new laptop every two years and pay $400-$600 each time. Why don't consumers en mass do it? Then Verizon would risk loosing customers as soon as they're CS dept screwed up. There would definitely be more customers going back and forth.
If there were no contracts you would see an open market for cell phones. You would essentially be able to buy your phone from Samsung instead of Verizon. You think the price of phones wouldn't come down then? I mean the price that Verizon gives us is essentially MSRP. What other electronic device do you pay MSRP on? Nothing! Think about it. $300 for a phone up front AND a $350 etf fee? Verizon makes it's money as soon as you sign, after that it's all bonus.

Those contracts are only there to keep you a customer, Carriers can still do as they please. You can't vote with your wallet if you have to wait 14 months to change.

 

[Yeahha]

Quite frankly, when I signed my contract 2 years ago for unlimited internet, I figured that's what I was getting. If VZ didn't have the infrastructure in place to handle the demand, it's their fault. To me that is the whole krux of the issue. Had they one single shred of intelligence, they would have figured right away it was best to limit the bandwidth because if not it would be like a wildfire. Which is was. Their only option was to eliminate the unlimited service, and furthermore place a de facto 'limitation' on those that signed contracts for unlimited data. To me that is a clear re-neg of the contract.

It is not this at all. You have unlimited data and part of that contract says if your useage is deemed excessive and causing issues to the network at times of high use they have the right to reduce the speed you have access to. It is either they target the heavy users and the majority of their users are unaffected or they do nothing and have all of their users have to deal with slower speeds. Obviously they are going to choose to affect the least amount of people as possible. Most of their customers do not use 2GB or more in a month so they will never be affected by this.

 

[Yeahha]

The real issue here is the two year contracts. Verizon was capable of one year contracts and they went away...why? When under the contract you are stuck.
I buy a new laptop every two years and pay $400-$600 each time. Why don't consumers en mass do it? Then Verizon would risk loosing customers as soon as they're CS dept screwed up. There would definitely be more customers going back and forth.
If there were no contracts you would see an open market for cell phones. You would essentially be able to buy your phone from Samsung instead of Verizon. You think the price of phones wouldn't come down then? I mean the price that Verizon gives us is essentially MSRP. What other electronic device do you pay MSRP on? Nothing! Think about it. $300 for a phone up front AND a $350 etf fee? Verizon makes it's money as soon as you sign, after that it's all bonus.

Those contracts are only there to keep you a customer, Carriers can still do as they please. You can't vote with your wallet if you have to wait 14 months to change.

I understand you do not like VZW. I can also agree the contract is to keep you as a customer but also it is a protection for the consumer, without a contract they could change the terms anytime they want and the next time you pay you will have to accept it or not have service.

Regardless of that, I fail to see how 2 year contracts have anything to do with network management/optimization/throttling.

 

[jessyinparis]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
I can't help but wonder how this conversation would be different if say:
Comcast, who sells digital cable tv, (which uses bandwidth as well I believe) started reducing your high def tv signal to standard def because you watched too much tv?

95% of people don't watch more than, say, 10 hours of tv per month. If you go over then you're a tv hog and your high def will be reduced to standard.

Or if my regular phone company, who provides unlimited local calls, said I'm abusing the privilige and left me with a very staticky line (is that a word?). They could say it's still unlimited because I can still use it...

Kinda like the buffet: it says "All you care to eat" but then in fine print says, up to three trips to the table.

I call "BS" for all four: buffet, home phone, cable tv and limiting an unlimited data connection.

 

[dirkbonn]

The real issue here is the two year contracts. Verizon was capable of one year contracts and they went away...why? When under the contract you are stuck.
I buy a new laptop every two years and pay $400-$600 each time. Why don't consumers en mass do it? Then Verizon would risk loosing customers as soon as they're CS dept screwed up. There would definitely be more customers going back and forth.
If there were no contracts you would see an open market for cell phones. You would essentially be able to buy your phone from Samsung instead of Verizon. You think the price of phones wouldn't come down then? I mean the price that Verizon gives us is essentially MSRP. What other electronic device do you pay MSRP on? Nothing! Think about it. $300 for a phone up front AND a $350 etf fee? Verizon makes it's money as soon as you sign, after that it's all bonus.

Those contracts are only there to keep you a customer, Carriers can still do as they please. You can't vote with your wallet if you have to wait 14 months to change.

Where did you get the information that $300 for a smartphone was MSRP? (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price) If you purchase a smartphone without a contract, you usually pay around $650, that is MSRP. The $300 figure is the carrier subsidized price when you sign a 2-year contract. $250/$300 is in the neighborhood of the carriers cost (including shipping and warehousing, etc.) and they make thier profit on the 24 month contract you sign.

Best of luck to all of us with our wireless phones,

 

[Yeahha]

Long time lurker, first time poster.
I can't help but wonder how this conversation would be different if say:
Comcast, who sells digital cable tv, (which uses bandwidth as well I believe) started reducing your high def tv signal to standard def because you watched too much tv?

95% of people don't watch more than, say, 10 hours of tv per month. If you go over then you're a tv hog and your high def will be reduced to standard.

Or if my regular phone company, who provides unlimited local calls, said I'm abusing the privilige and left me with a very staticky line (is that a word?). They could say it's still unlimited because I can still use it...

Kinda like the buffet: it says "All you care to eat" but then in fine print says, up to three trips to the table.

I call "BS" for all four: buffet, home phone, cable tv and limiting an unlimited data connection.

Welcome to AF Jessyinparis I'm glad you decided to finally join us

The problem is that the phone companies have had it written in their contracts for years that if your use is deemed damaging to the network they have the right to throttle you to keep the other customer's connections stable. It is just now they have decided to declare where they will deem the use as being damaging to the network before they either didn't have a line (most likely IMO) or did it without making it known. I doubt the same thing is written in cable TV and home phone contracts because the infrastructure of those systems are different that non-stop use by one customer will not affect another.

Home internet providers have also put measures in place to thwart excessive use by individuals About excessive use of data The problem being for internet you can not tell how much data a household will use due to differences in use of data and my use can cause poor service for you.

As to the buffet analogy if I was eating food faster than it could be cooked causing other paying customers to not be able to eat I am sure the management would tell me to leave or ask I wait longer between trips to the buffet so the other paying customers can also get what they have paid for. Why shouldn't they? Do the greedy needs of 1 paying customer outweigh the 99 other paying customers? IMO no the needs of the majority should be served first or else it will stain the reputation of the establishment and possibly causing the establishment to lose profit in the future.

 

[jessyinparis]

Thanks for the welcome!

The home phone thing is funny to me. Growing up in the area I did, our local service was very limited. The entire dead end road we lived on was one 'party line'. Once that finally changed, our next 'plan' was limited to 200 minutes each.

I can also understand about the buffet thing with one point of exception.
If the fine print isn't there and I've only had seconds and thirds, I don't want to be told, "You eat too much. You leave now."
Yeah... Happened. Three plates and get out. No 'fine print'.

It all goes back to one person's idea of excessive versus what most people think.


If I watch two movies, send some pictures, listen to some (internet) radio and share some emails, that just doesn't seem excessive to me.
But Verizon calls me a data hog and throttles me all the way down to mobile dialup for two months.

In Paris IL, Verizon's "tower" still has its trailer under it, including the wheels. It has a woven wire fence streched around it with what looks like tent stakes holding the fence up.

Yeah, can you say "temporary tower" boys and girls?
And it's been that way for over a year.


But because the network isn't able to handle the traffic, I get throttled.

Sorry for the long post/venting/etc.

 

[andr01d]

I'm still thinking/dreaming of the unlimited giant snow crab legs at a local Japanese buffet!!

(I had unlimited on AT&T previously but didn't use much back then.)

 

[Yeahha]

Thanks for the welcome!

The home phone thing is funny to me. Growing up in the area I did, our local service was very limited. The entire dead end road we lived on was one 'party line'. Once that finally changed, our next 'plan' was limited to 200 minutes each.

I can also understand about the buffet thing with one point of exception.
If the fine print isn't there and I've only had seconds and thirds, I don't want to be told, "You eat too much. You leave now."
Yeah... Happened. Three plates and get out. No 'fine print'.

It all goes back to one person's idea of excessive versus what most people think.


If I watch two movies, send some pictures, listen to some (internet) radio and share some emails, that just doesn't seem excessive to me.
But Verizon calls me a data hog and throttles me all the way down to mobile dialup for two months.

In Paris IL, Verizon's "tower" still has its trailer under it, including the wheels. It has a woven wire fence streched around it with what looks like tent stakes holding the fence up.

Yeah, can you say "temporary tower" boys and girls?
And it's been that way for over a year.


But because the network isn't able to handle the traffic, I get throttled.

Sorry for the long post/venting/etc.

No need to be sorry. I am not a fan of throtting either.

If VZW didn't have the fine print it would be illegal but they do and have for a while. It sounds like they need to build up the network more in your area honestly.

With how moble data use is rising I don't think the 2GB limit that is almost standard will remain, as phones get more and more powerful 2GB is less and less use. VZW has released a phone that will play video in 1080p but you will be limited to use that feature almost only on wifi if you don't want to exceed your tier or throttle threshold.

 

[AntimonyER]

No need to be sorry. I am not a fan of throtting either.

If VZW didn't have the fine print it would be illegal but they do and have for a while. It sounds like they need to build up the network more in your area honestly.

With how moble data use is rising I don't think the 2GB limit that is almost standard will remain, as phones get more and more powerful 2GB is less and less use. VZW has released a phone that will play video in 1080p but you will be limited to use that feature almost only on wifi if you don't want to exceed your tier or throttle threshold.

Except Verizon offers bigger plans, they just cost more. Tiered data may not have cost more for most people now, but Verizon knew what they were doing. Just like how data plans became mandatory $30 per month surcharges, eventually the higher tiers will become the mandatory levels for superphones.