Phases
NO LONGER ADMIN
Yes, also removed (well, hid) indefinitely. If we bring back with a plan fine, but for now all that could go in there can just as easily go in Android Lounge.
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Where's the news
- Thread starter artman540
- Start date
Yes, also removed (well, hid) indefinitely. If we bring back with a plan fine, but for now all that could go in there can just as easily go in Android Lounge.
Roze
Hiding behind a mystery
Wow...I feel so lost atm. I thought it was changed to having the News Forum as people do use it but disable members the ability to create threads. Are we not doing this anymore? Is the News Forum completely disabled? I tried looking for it without much success.
Roze
Hiding behind a mystery
Ok, got it!
NowVoyager
Android Enthusiast
Pre-bot - We members could post news (that really was news) to the forum. Then when the bot was added our posts were moved. Hated that.
I love the dailies. Hate the "Bot Only" posts. The pleasure of interacting with other members on topics of the day was why I joined.
I don't care for the topics being moved to someone's blog rather than on our forum.
The games are fun. But what drew me here day after day were the friendships and that I could find all of my Android news in one place on the forum. Being able to post to the forum when we found something newsworthy was what made it live. So, I'm on the side of returning the topics to the News And Talk section and allowing News *and* Talk on the forum...instead of off on someone's blog. And I don't really need a forum where only a Bot can post, with no interactive component - I can simply use my RSS aggregator instead.
I love the dailies. Hate the "Bot Only" posts. The pleasure of interacting with other members on topics of the day was why I joined.
I don't care for the topics being moved to someone's blog rather than on our forum.
The games are fun. But what drew me here day after day were the friendships and that I could find all of my Android news in one place on the forum. Being able to post to the forum when we found something newsworthy was what made it live. So, I'm on the side of returning the topics to the News And Talk section and allowing News *and* Talk on the forum...instead of off on someone's blog. And I don't really need a forum where only a Bot can post, with no interactive component - I can simply use my RSS aggregator instead.
My Nemesis!!
You make a couple good points but it's not just 'some dudes blog'. Phandroid and AndroidForums are the same entity. Same owner, same administrator, heck even some of the same moderators.
But I do agree that posting the articles in there was useful to some. And i will say that the commenting on Phandroid is off the hook sometimes and with so much content and so many people commenting it is hard to keep track when things get 'heated'
For the news people used to post in there we have been trying to funnel that into more specific places. If its partial to phones move to phone section, general android news then move to android lounge, app news move to application section, etc...
Still wish I understood the whole duplicate search engine penalty (the reason bot was taken away).
I do also believe that the news articles in AF format is cool.....
_mw_
Android Enthusiast
@NightAngel79,
I hope I don't cover anything you already know about the subject, but to summarize duplicate content is kind of a web developer old wives tale. It was and still is a panic button for a lot of site owners due to the huge piles of misinformation being provided about it all over the web, but the reality is that it's hard to trigger and very rarely is except in obvious attempts of search engine spamming. The filter is in place to make sure that you never receive a list of search results that contain nothing but the same page over and over again; this means it checks everything down to the document structure. If it didn't, places such as news aggregate sites would almost cease to exist.
There's no actual penalty, it's just a filter. Every page is still ranked based on the same mystical algorithm using keywords, markup, backlinks and a variety of other criteria to do so. You actually have to work really hard to be filtered, and in the case of a site such as phandroid.com/androidforums.com it would do nothing to hurt the ranking of their main search site. What is more likely is that in a generic search, you would find phandroid.com 9 times out of 10. In a more qualified search that includes a particular subject being discussed in the thread, you'd find androidforums.com. It still wouldn't be entirely improbable to see both depending on the keywords you were looking for.
Matt Cutts has tried to dispel the myth a number of times, but even he gets buried under the sheer number of people who post blogs and tutorials to the contrary.
I hope I don't cover anything you already know about the subject, but to summarize duplicate content is kind of a web developer old wives tale. It was and still is a panic button for a lot of site owners due to the huge piles of misinformation being provided about it all over the web, but the reality is that it's hard to trigger and very rarely is except in obvious attempts of search engine spamming. The filter is in place to make sure that you never receive a list of search results that contain nothing but the same page over and over again; this means it checks everything down to the document structure. If it didn't, places such as news aggregate sites would almost cease to exist.
There's no actual penalty, it's just a filter. Every page is still ranked based on the same mystical algorithm using keywords, markup, backlinks and a variety of other criteria to do so. You actually have to work really hard to be filtered, and in the case of a site such as phandroid.com/androidforums.com it would do nothing to hurt the ranking of their main search site. What is more likely is that in a generic search, you would find phandroid.com 9 times out of 10. In a more qualified search that includes a particular subject being discussed in the thread, you'd find androidforums.com. It still wouldn't be entirely improbable to see both depending on the keywords you were looking for.
Matt Cutts has tried to dispel the myth a number of times, but even he gets buried under the sheer number of people who post blogs and tutorials to the contrary.
Thanks for the explanation.....
Seems like I recall a nosearch or noindex meta tag that could be hung on that forum page then.
NowVoyager
Android Enthusiast
@Nightangel, my Nemesis! LOL - The overall point I'm making is that what makes a forum *live* are the people and our interactions (even heated ones) with each other. While bots are convenient, I'd much rather interact with a person who can respond beyond the original post.
And while the blog is perhaps useful to some, I find it an unnecessary evil, LOL. Originally, all comments remained in the forum. Now, the post will begin there and we are lead off to the blog where I'm sure that our posts count toward "hits" for the blog (thus a way to attract advertisers for a "popular" blog). Which in a sense is sneaky because we were lead there and not necessarily organic participants of the blog. For example, I never go to read it unless I am taken there by a post in the forum that says ---more---
I do understand boosting readership of the blog. But most of us originally came here for the forum. I guess I just miss the real reason that I came here...News and Talk. It got down to just News, and our "talk" was rerouted elsewhere and then it disappeared altogether. While I confess that I don't understand why it was done, it sure felt like a shoot yourself in the foot move: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
*** I do "get it" that one of the company goals is to attract more advertisers (thus more revenue) I just don't think that the News/Talk forum has to die to accomplish that.
And while the blog is perhaps useful to some, I find it an unnecessary evil, LOL. Originally, all comments remained in the forum. Now, the post will begin there and we are lead off to the blog where I'm sure that our posts count toward "hits" for the blog (thus a way to attract advertisers for a "popular" blog). Which in a sense is sneaky because we were lead there and not necessarily organic participants of the blog. For example, I never go to read it unless I am taken there by a post in the forum that says ---more---
I do understand boosting readership of the blog. But most of us originally came here for the forum. I guess I just miss the real reason that I came here...News and Talk. It got down to just News, and our "talk" was rerouted elsewhere and then it disappeared altogether. While I confess that I don't understand why it was done, it sure felt like a shoot yourself in the foot move: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
*** I do "get it" that one of the company goals is to attract more advertisers (thus more revenue) I just don't think that the News/Talk forum has to die to accomplish that.
woop
novacane (OFWGKTA)
I don't think you understood NA's post above. That blog (Phandroid) and this forum (AndroidForums) are ONE entity. What makes this boat run here is supported by what is done over there and vice versa.
As for the News forum itself, other than 2-3 posts a MONTH, the rest of the threads created in there were NOT news, thus defeating the purpose of that forum and undermining other forums (device specific or places like Android Lounge).
NowVoyager
Android Enthusiast
There was nothing to misunderstand. I simply have a difference of opinion regarding what drew me here as a participant. The response and opinions of the members to a great degree drove the forum. It was our reaction *to* the news that made it interesting. While the outlying areas of the forum (games etc) are entertaining, it was not why I came here. I wanted a place where I could discuss the Android topics of the day and read the opinions of others. I fully understand that the two entities are ONE. However, the former format here was where I turned for my Android News And Talk fix.
It is my understanding that a forum is not to merely dispense information but to spark conversation and debate among the forum members in the forum itself, where the conversation was begun...Not to be transferred over to a yet another place (even though you say that they are one) that moves the discussion away from the original forum post. The bot took over the News And Talk after a time and was the only one allowed to originate posts, which was a great disappointment. That one move killed News And Talk. That area was dubbed News And Talk for a reason. If we're merely to read and not originate our own posts about the news of the day, the forum might as well move solely to RSS format where we can read it all offline and have no input whatsoever.
woop
novacane (OFWGKTA)
You can still read all that news on Phandroid, and many user-posted articles in Android Lounge
As I've mentioned about the News forum in my previous post - no one was posting news. Since that was the case, it defeats the purpose of device forums (many were phone questions) or Android Lounge (general Android questions). If more people posted actual news in the News and Talk (talk as in talk about NEWS) forum, then I'm sure there wouldn't have been so many threads being moved. If we didn't move those, whats the point of keep all the other forums? Might as well just bunch everything together and have 1 huge catch-all forum.
In the end this is all nay-say as the decision was made by the only person that matters - the one that pays the bills.
Edit: For the record, I also did like having the forum there but preferred it only be bot threads for the reasons I just posted. I was just trying to give reasoning for what Rob has decided as I can see where he is coming from; not trying to start an argument or anything
NowVoyager
Android Enthusiast
I'm sure that you mean well but that is not entirely true. I and others have posted the exact content that the bot came along later and posted. It became a bot-run and thus dead (non-interactive) area. Before it was changed into a bot spewer it was a very vibrant area where everyone participated at one time or another. And let's get real: It is no doubt difficult to court a particular brand as an advertiser if your viewership is beefing about it on the front page. As I said previously, it was supposedly formed for news AND talk but all of it got eliminated. And since the decision was made as you say by "the only person that matters" I just thought I'd voice my opinion as a forum contributor. But since we participants don't matter...it's a moot point.
While I get what both of you are saying I think there has been a little bit of a communication break down.
I *think* what woop meant by 'the only person that matters' is that the decision is ultimately up to Rob Jackson(the owner) and that he 's not an unreasonable person. It is he who needs convincing, not woop, me, or anyone else.(though woop and myself were both in favor of keeping that section)
He has posted in this thread and I'm sure will read it through and take everything into consideration yet again.
I know generally speaking Rob (and phases) have been known to be swayed in their opinions if enough people like/want something to stay/be changed. Woop wasn't implying that 'the only person that matters' meant the topic wasn't open for discussion at all.
You made some really good points nemesis, best thing I would think is to convince others to pop in here and weigh in on this.
I *think* what woop meant by 'the only person that matters' is that the decision is ultimately up to Rob Jackson(the owner) and that he 's not an unreasonable person. It is he who needs convincing, not woop, me, or anyone else.(though woop and myself were both in favor of keeping that section)
He has posted in this thread and I'm sure will read it through and take everything into consideration yet again.
I know generally speaking Rob (and phases) have been known to be swayed in their opinions if enough people like/want something to stay/be changed. Woop wasn't implying that 'the only person that matters' meant the topic wasn't open for discussion at all.
You made some really good points nemesis, best thing I would think is to convince others to pop in here and weigh in on this.
woop
novacane (OFWGKTA)
Glad someone took it the correct way. All I'm saying is, trying to get your point across to me doesn't do much
And 2-3 "news" threads a month (as I mentioned in my earlier post in this thread) versus the 90-100 NON-news threads a month in that forum does not constitute well. So, if viewed from the big picture (which I'm trying to do - as someone who has moved threads out and understands the ratio of non-news versus news), it wasn't beneficial to leave users access to creating threads (not saying the forum should be deleted but my point is letting users create threads in a forum that they aren't correctly using [MOST, but apparently not you, which is good and I respect that] is not a good starting point)
NowVoyager
Android Enthusiast
Thanks Nemesis. My points weren't made to sway woop one way or the other. I was merely responding to what he wrote.
Hopefully the take-away is that it is seen that people *do* care and have an interest in participating in discussions about Android topics of interest within the forum itself. Yes, we will sometimes get emotional or even a little over-the-top (or a lot if you're me, LOL). But the point is that we were engaged, and we were engaged here. Things are so disbursed now that it is difficult to know where to look for topics. News And Talk (in its original format) was a great "water cooler" for us to meet and chat or even argue our points. I hope that the powers that be - will reconsider. In its best iteration, it was a fun place and where I looked forward to starting my day. Thanks guys!
Hopefully the take-away is that it is seen that people *do* care and have an interest in participating in discussions about Android topics of interest within the forum itself. Yes, we will sometimes get emotional or even a little over-the-top (or a lot if you're me, LOL). But the point is that we were engaged, and we were engaged here. Things are so disbursed now that it is difficult to know where to look for topics. News And Talk (in its original format) was a great "water cooler" for us to meet and chat or even argue our points. I hope that the powers that be - will reconsider. In its best iteration, it was a fun place and where I looked forward to starting my day. Thanks guys!
LoyalServant
Android Expert
I liked it because we could comment and discuss the news in question.
Now you have to use that 'disqus' thing.... I liked the old way better.
I am hoping it will come back!
Now you have to use that 'disqus' thing.... I liked the old way better.
I am hoping it will come back!
cds0699
Android Expert
I recently figured out another reason i liked the bot posted threads.... There's A LOT less trolling and flaming in the threads as opposed to the comments part of the phandroid news area. Its so bad that i stopped reading the coments part of the news section (esp since i can't see a way to report trolling/flaming in the comments) :-(
Stuck on FF until they figure that one out (not everybody wants to use Google Reader).