Why do we still debate things like this?

[cmybliss]

We debate because people tend to distrust science and are willing be believe circumstantial data because it is endorsed by someone or they want to place blame on someone rather than accept things just happen sometimes.

Discussion links between vaccinations and autism specifically, numerous studies have shown there are no connections between the two but Jenny McCarthy thinks there is a link and went public about it so plenty of people must agree. Also when someone's child starts to show signs of the disorder around the time they are vaccinated the parent(s) may feel they are victims and want to place blame on another party than accept there are things in life that just happen, yes bad things can happen to good people. I think their hearts are in the right place but endorsement of something with good intentions without looking at what has been proven may not be a good thing.

Why I think they should be required and both my kids are up to date on theirs can be explained easily by looking at the news last year Measles outbreak from unvaccinated - USATODAY.com

A child can get measles before turning 1 year old but can't get vaccinated for it until they are 1 year old. If someone's child is disabled or killed before turning 1 because someone else decided not to have their child vaccinated for measles due to fears of bad things happening because of the vaccination who are the victims? IMO the victims are the less than a year old child, his or her parents, and the unvaccinated child who's parents chose not to have him or her vaccinated.

The only reason things like measles, mumps, and polio aren't the epidemics they were less than 100 years ago is due to vaccines. They all still exist and there are outbreaks periodically but for the most part if the vaccinations are required they will not be an issue for those areas.

I am also not saying that all vaccinations should be mandatory. Things like the flu vaccine should be optional. From what I understand the the flu vaccine is just a guess of what types of the flu virus may be prevelant this year.

Beautifully stated. As a parent of a child with autism, I do not blame vaccinations, and she is up to date on all of hers. I think the jury is still out on why autism numbers are up. It may be environmental, it may be due to an increased awareness of parents/doctors, or a combination of both.
I work in a public school, and am glad for the laws that require children to be vaccinated before being allowed to attend. There are enough nasty germs breeding in the classroom without adding polio and measles to the mix.
That being said, there are already rules in place, in my state at least, that allow parents to opt out of vaccinations for religious reasons, and still send their kids to school. They must sign a waiver and agree to keep their children home if they come down with something, or if there is a particularly nasty bug going around school. If a parent fails to follow these rules, their children will no longer be able to attend. I see no reason this cannot apply to others who choose to opt out.
Parents should have the right to choose what medical treatments their children receive. But with that right comes increased responsibility to keep the people who may come in contact with their unvaccinated children safe.

 

[Yeahha]

Beautifully stated. As a parent of a child with autism, I do not blame vaccinations, and she is up to date on all of hers. I think the jury is still out on why autism numbers are up. It may be environmental, it may be due to an increased awareness of parents/doctors, or a combination of both.
I work in a public school, and am glad for the laws that require children to be vaccinated before being allowed to attend. There are enough nasty germs breeding in the classroom without adding polio and measles to the mix.
That being said, there are already rules in place, in my state at least, that allow parents to opt out of vaccinations for religious reasons, and still send their kids to school. They must sign a waiver and agree to keep their children home if they come down with something, or if there is a particularly nasty bug going around school. If a parent fails to follow these rules, their children will no longer be able to attend. I see no reason this cannot apply to others who choose to opt out.
Parents should have the right to choose what medical treatments their children receive. But with that right comes increased responsibility to keep the people who may come in contact with their unvaccinated children safe.

My fear is not every parent will be responsible. My mother is a teacher in a rather poor area and it seems like many parent's of her students don't really care and look at school as a form of daycare. I know she has many students in her class who are here illegally and they still attend public school so I can't see the local school system here turning someone away because they have a religious belief and fail to meet a waiver they signed.

That is something I didn't think about what if it is against someones religious beliefs with vaccinations and brings up quite an ethical question "What is best for the masses vs what is best for the individual" as well as issues between freedom of religion and parental responsibilities. If my religion dictated that my child had to play Russian roulette it would be looked at as a form of abuse and putting the child in unnecessary harm so why would allowing you child to be at risk to getting a disease that could cripple or kill them be okay? Yes I know I am being rather extreme but IMO the only person being put at risk is the child without their consent. Yes if the child contracts one of the diseases and suffers for it the parent will suffer too but it was their decision after all.

 

[SUroot]

I agree with you that some vaccines should be voluntary.

That's not necessarily how post #1 comes across

 

[Drhyde]

Meh, my kid's vaccinated and I was all for it. I kinda wanna keep him around for a while. Maybe get some grandchildren out of the deal. Or I suppose I could have never vaccinated and thrown caution to the wind. Though agencies like the CPA look at you a little weird when your kid gets smallpox or polio.

 

[kotoo7e]

Look what you just quoted were all general and mostly directly from the CDC that is mostly staffed with current and former Pharmaceutical executives. Bottom line, and you will have to study this for yourself (I've been doing this for 30 years) there is not documented case studies of a single vaccine doing anything but bring harm to the victims receiving them. They have not according to actual science and documented case studies saved a single life anytime in history. This may sound "outrageous' to you, but just shut me up by replying back with any documented actual scientific case study even indicating vaccines are beneficial to anyone. Just one.. Good luck in you search, but do not reply with more ignorant quotes from the corrupt staffed CDC, FDA, AMJ, AMA, or any other sponsored and supported by Big Pharmaceutical connected organizations.. You would have to be as ignorant as a tree frog to believe any of their $$ driven BS.

 

[kotoo7e]

you are being duped.. please research this subject

 

[Yeahha]

Look what you just quoted were all general and mostly directly from the CDC that is mostly staffed with current and former Pharmaceutical executives. Bottom line, and you will have to study this for yourself (I've been doing this for 30 years) there is not documented case studies of a single vaccine doing anything but bring harm to the victims receiving them. They have not according to actual science and documented case studies saved a single life anytime in history. This may sound "outrageous' to you, but just shut me up by replying back with any documented actual scientific case study even indicating vaccines are beneficial to anyone. Just one.. Good luck in you search, but do not reply with more ignorant quotes from the corrupt staffed CDC, FDA, AMJ, AMA, or any other sponsored and supported by Big Pharmaceutical connected organizations.. You would have to be as ignorant as a tree frog to believe any of their $$ driven BS.

So you say vaccines aren't beneficial because there aren't studies from unqualified sources? The reason studies are done by "big pharmaceutical" and govt agencies that are in medical fields is because of qualifications. I don't see a need for a study when you can look at the rates of children who suffer with diseases like polio, measles, mumps, smallpox...from before the vaccines were in use and since.

My aunt who was born in early 1950's had polio as a child and it was just a way of life. Last year 11 children in china were infected with polio and it made news headlines around the world. The drastically changed rate of infection is the vaccines work as intended.

 

[A.Nonymous]

That's not necessarily how post #1 comes across

I may have been unclear. Childhood vaccines should be mandatory unless someone can demonstrate a specific health risk. Adult vaccines like the flu shot should be voluntary. Not getting a flu shot poses no real risk to the population. Childhood vaccines have wiped out many diseases that are now starting to make a come back because people are skipping vaccines. That poses a serious risk to the public health.

Look what you just quoted were all general and mostly directly from the CDC that is mostly staffed with current and former Pharmaceutical executives. Bottom line, and you will have to study this for yourself (I've been doing this for 30 years) there is not documented case studies of a single vaccine doing anything but bring harm to the victims receiving them. They have not according to actual science and documented case studies saved a single life anytime in history. This may sound "outrageous' to you, but just shut me up by replying back with any documented actual scientific case study even indicating vaccines are beneficial to anyone. Just one.. Good luck in you search, but do not reply with more ignorant quotes from the corrupt staffed CDC, FDA, AMJ, AMA, or any other sponsored and supported by Big Pharmaceutical connected organizations.. You would have to be as ignorant as a tree frog to believe any of their $$ driven BS.

The statistics would seem to prove you wrong. The polio vaccine was introduced in the US in the 1960s. Prior to the vaccine, there were 20,000 cases a year. There has not been a single case in the US since 1979. There were 350,000 cases world wide in 1988 when WHO, Unicef and others started a massive effort to eliminate the disease. In 2007, 1600 cases were reported. Now, unless you're going to argue that in 2007, there were over 349,000 diseases caused by the vaccine, your argument falls to pieces. The numbers are the same for other vaccines as well.

Prior to the measles vaccine, it was a disease that everyone caught as kids. Now, it's only 1% of the population. Do 99% of the population deal with side effects of the vaccine? No. Mumps and Rubella have been eliminated the same way. I had Chicken Pox as a kid. I'm sure the vast majority of adults on this forum have had chicken pox as a kid. Yet kids today don't get it because there's a vaccine. Prior to '95, there used to be 4 million occurrences a year. There's been a 90% drop off since then. So yes, the stats do back up that vaccines are effective in preventing disease.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Look what you just quoted were all general and mostly directly from the CDC that is mostly staffed with current and former Pharmaceutical executives. Bottom line, and you will have to study this for yourself (I've been doing this for 30 years) there is not documented case studies of a single vaccine doing anything but bring harm to the victims receiving them.

Let me rephrase what it is you are saying: everybody who has been given a vaccine has been harmed. Is this what you are saying? Really? Seriously?

Here is your flipping case study: Bob, Me, Mr. Maxey. Never any problems and I've had them all including polio vaccine. Ditto my brother. Double-ditto everyone I know. Forgive me but either I am not understanding what you are saying or what you meant to say or you forgot the decimal point and your 30 years of experience should be changed to .30.

 

[scary alien]

Just a gentle reminder guys to keep things civil and pointed at the issues and not each other .

Thank you.

-SA

 

[A.Nonymous]

A county in my state is now dealing with four measles cases. Should be zero. But people have opted out of childhood vaccines and now their kids are suffering. I hope none of them end up losing their lives to a disease that a vaccine could've easily prevented.