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Help Why is cloning an android phone so difficult when IOS is so easy?

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peterh337

Android Enthusiast
I had an S6 for a year, then got the S7.

The S6 was rooted so a "clone" to another rooted phone is possible via Titanium Backup + Nova Desktop backup (and restore using these two). A lot of data (a few GB) but it does work.

But I didn't root the S7, partly to collect all the Samsung OS updates and fixes and partly because the specific requirements for rooting it had been moved to a rooted T705 tablet.

So I did the S6 -> S7 with the Phone Switch feature. That is near-useless. It copies over your Contacts and most apps, but doesn't copy SMS, Whatsapp messages, Firefox config, etc etc. Basically all app *data/config* is not copied over.

So I did SMS transfer using an SMS copy app, did Firefox with the "Firefox account" feature, Whatsapp via google drive. Maildroid config was done with the "Maildroid account" feature. ... what a mess! Chrome can be done with the google drive login... QuickPic and dozens of other apps had to be reconfigured by having the two phones side by side and comparing the Settings menus.

I work in IT, write code in C and assembler, build PCs, etc, but your average Joe Public will just not bother. They will re-enter the stuff manually, or buy an Iphone.

Of course a large subset of phone users, probably 90-95%, only care about Contacts being transferred... stuff like messages is transient, like most of their life :)

Then the S7 packed up, was replaced, and I had to copy the old S6 to the S7 again. Same process again! Took me about 5 hours.

The basic issue seems to be that android developers don't store config in a unified place which can be accessed by the OS for backups. Apple got that bit right, so you can restore and get an exactly identical phone (one exception being apps no longer in the appstore, for which a specific Itunes backup process has to be used, but most people won't have any of those).

I might root the S7 so I don't get this hassle again, but from what I read there is a certain risk of bricking it. Looking at various forums, very few people have rooted the latest S7 with the latest OS update.
 
What did you use to switch? I just loaded up Smart Switch on my Note2 and S7 Edge, and everything went through. Messages, Pictures, apps, etc. I let Google handle the contacts and calendar and Chrome, since I've already been using Google for those stuff ever since, and everything went well. Even WiFi passwords transferred.

Both phones not rooted.
 
I likewise, used Smart Switch to bring over my daughter's HTC info to a Galaxy S5 and it all transfered okay.

there is a way, we just don't have an independent app to do it for us.
 
Smart Switch never said it would. I transferred the apps data and their own settings via Helium.

Samsung Cloud allegedly says it does that, but never tried restoring from it. And that is only available on newer Samsung devices going forward.
 
Smart Switch claims to copy over the phone... but it doesn't.

You didn't mention Helium before. You merely wrote "I just loaded up Smart Switch on my Note2 and S7 Edge, and everything went through. Messages, Pictures, apps, etc. I let Google handle the contacts and calendar and Chrome, since I've already been using Google for those stuff ever since, and everything went well. Even WiFi passwords transferred." :)

I looked it up. How does it differ from Titanium, My Backup Pro, etc, on non-rooted phones?

I would like to do a complete backup of everything configurable, to the PC, but I don't think it is possible because how can an app running on a non-rooted phone access each app's sandbox?
 
peterh337 said:
Smart Switch claims to copy over the phone... but it doesn't.

You didn't mention Helium before. You merely wrote "I just loaded up Smart Switch on my Note2 and S7 Edge, and everything went through. Messages, Pictures, apps, etc. I let Google handle the contacts and calendar and Chrome, since I've already been using Google for those stuff ever since, and everything went well. Even WiFi passwords transferred." :)

I looked it up. How does it differ from Titanium, My Backup Pro, etc, on non-rooted phones?

I would like to do a complete backup of everything configurable, to the PC, but I don't think it is possible because how can an app running on a non-rooted phone access each app's sandbox?
Click to expand...
Helium uses a PC Bridge via ADB permissions. So it can get into app data repositories. Android does have permissions for PC access backup of data, for some reason no one uses it except for Helium. The difference between rooted is that there are some apps that don't cooperate with Helium. I have a few, like Bookari Reader, that Helium can't backup unrooted. However all of my apps that don't work with Helium have their own cloud save so it doesn't matter.

Samsung Cloud specifically has 'app data' as a choice for backup, as opposed to 'applications' on Smart Switch. I also read somewhere that SmartSwitch only backs up the apk installer. Honestly if every app followed Google policy that they setup to have it save data to Google server, SmartSwitch would have been enough.
 
Many thanks.

I installed Hellium and it says the phone USB needs to be switched to PTP but it already is.
Maybe this is one of the many android apps which doesn't work on android v6?

Souns like others have found this too e.g.
https://github.com/koush/support-wiki/issues/87

I tried the MIDI option too.

Maybe there is an issue with win7-64 drivers... but adb.exe is running in the process list.
 
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Don't mind the notification. You can actually just leave it at MTP, plug it in to PC and it will activate properly.
 
The warning would not go away and the PC program didn't see it. So I uninstalled it and got the refund. This happens :)

I am currently backing up with MyBackupPro (£7) which I had used before (and had forgotten about it) and which seems to back up most of the data. And as you noted some stuff has its own online backup (Firefox, Maildroid, etc) even though that is a totally ridiculous way of doing it.
 
"Uninstall QuickPic. You won't regret it."

and the relevance is?? It actually works very well... once you discover that the "hidden" directories are ones with .nomedia files in them :)
 
QuickPic was a really good alternative to the default Android Gallery app. Arguably it still is a good photo library app but once Cheetah Mobile bought it, over a year ago, that brings into question a privacy issue that CM folds into all the apps it supports. CM is based in Beijing and once you install a CM-based app you're also opening your phone to a channel of communication with a server overseas. The issue being it's a complete black hole, as who knows just what's being done with the personal data of consumers who reside outside Chinese borders.
 
peterh337 said:
The warning would not go away and the PC program didn't see it. So I uninstalled it and got the refund. This happens :)

I am currently backing up with MyBackupPro (£7) which I had used before (and had forgotten about it) and which seems to back up most of the data. And as you noted some stuff has its own online backup (Firefox, Maildroid, etc) even though that is a totally ridiculous way of doing it.
Click to expand...
Weird. I'm on the free version on an S7 Edge and works fine. Oh well.
 
Thanks for that info, svim.

I have not enabled the cloud feature (no need for it anyway) but with android and IOS one has to assume everything on your phone gets potentially sent somewhere... so many apps which have absolutely no genuine need to see your contacts do still apply for the privilege... Why do satnav apps need access to Contacts? Etc. and if you block some of these privileges the app is likely to malfunction or crash because the programmer didn't handle the case. On a rooted phone one could block internet access to specific apps, or allow only come URLs (lmhosts kind of thing).

chanchan05- Did you not see the MTP v PTP issue on your phone? That alone would be interesting. As I said I get it only when the USB cable is connected so it could be an OS issue. What are you running on the PC?

I created a 16GB backup with MyBackupPro which does probably contain most of the stuff, leaving maybe just some app configs... Titanium is the best I know of but is almost useless unless the phone is rooted.
 
Satnav may want contacts access so that you can tell it to direct you to their addresses.

But yes, in general I am cautious about what apps I allow to access what data. Some don't need it but are just lazily programmed and ask for stuff they don't use. But there is no reason to be excessively trusting. However, there can be non-obvious reasons for permissions (e.g. flashlight apps usually neeed camera access in order to control the flash).
 
Yes; good point about satnav.

When in the past I blocked some of the requested access, the app would not work properly or just terminate. So I don't bother anymore.

I think "everybody" has your contacts nowadays. Whatsapp has real names and mobile numbers and now Facebook got all that. It's too late to worry about that now, other than by avoiding social media.

I still don't understand why android doesn't di an IOS-like backup. So many people lost their Iphones an restored a new one from Apple's servers and it worked the same. Admittedly they probably didn't use 3rd party apps much for major functions (3rd party email apps are more known for needing to be reconfigured again, IME with an Iphone4 and Ipad2) but still it is a much better solution. Maybe android programmers are too lazy in where they store data.
 
I've blocked accesses without problems. I guess it depends on the app.

iOS started doing backups by siloing to a computer, with them subsequently extending this to the cloud. It all developed from the iPod/iTunes backups really (and 1990s PDAs, which the iOS interface always reminds me of ). Google didn't have that starting point of backing up the whole device to a computer, and always thought in terms of clouds. They also didn't start by having your media collection (via iTunes) either, though they've since tried to get you to use them for media. So I think history plays a role here. They do have an option to back up app data to their servers, but I don't think they've worried too much about stuff like homescreen backups (some launchers do that, but there's always a little faffing). I don't use it, so don't know how well it works. I've migrated data between phones using manufacturer's transfer tools without much trouble though.

Mind you, the iOS interface doesn't have much to back up: wallpaper, number of home pages, list of folders, that's it really. So if Apple have the list of installed apps and some app data it's probably easier to make it "the same". There's more variety in Android, so it's less likely that you would end up with "the same" anyway as it's likely your devices will be more different than 2 iPhones.

Personally I do my device backups locally rather than rely on any corporate server, but then I root my devices and install custom recoveries which gives me more options in that respect.
 
@peterh337 Actually on my phone I did encounter that. The device was asking me to set it to PTP, I actually have it on MTP. I ignore that prompt (i don't press cancel, I just leave it alone) and turn on Helium's PC progran and and it gets activated anyway.
 
Hadron - I think it may be more specific. I am not an android/ios programmer but a colleague of mine is and he says all the config stuff should go on a thing called a keychain... I am sure you will recognise what I mean. And Apple are more forceful in enforcing where apps store data. Clearly the app needs to store it where the OS can get at it *knowing* what it is.

The IOS backup does re-download apps from the appstore but it does it very cleanly so most people aren't aware of it. If you want to restore apps no longer there, or restore older versions of apps, you have to use the Itunes-PC backup option (which will obviously create a huge file - easily 10-20GB).

Of course android apps generally do much more than ios apps, but that isn't an obvious reason why app data+config should be stored in strange places which only a rooted solution can get at.

I would root my phone if I had a really safe method but from online reports there isn't one right now for the S7. Also can a rooted phone be restored fully to factory state if I need to take it back under warranty? My S7 has just been in for a repair, so this is not an unlikely scenario...

Chanchan - thanks I might give it another go. Am I right that Helium's backup should be as "total" as a root+Titanium one?

Reading the MyBackupPro notes, they imply that their non-root backup does pretty well everything except obscure stuff like market links. I wonder how that can be right.

FWIW, I find the backups of Nova Desktop to be totally superb and faultless; one of the best phone apps ever! If one can restore the apps and their data, restoring the Nova backup does return you to an identical-UI phone, and IIRC this includes the wallpapers for both the app screen and the lockscreen.
 
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Well no not as total. AFAIK the root option lets you get at everything. I mentioned in a previous post that some apps are classified as inaccessible to Helium in the nonrooted version. The app will show you which ones. Hopefully they'll all have their own cloud backups.
 
peterh337 said:
I am not an android/ios programmer but a colleague of mine is and he says all the config stuff should go on a thing called a keychain... I am sure you will recognise what I mean.
Click to expand...

I do, it's an iCloud-specific option in iOS. I don't think it applies to Android.

The reason for Android having no "imaging" backup feature is likely hardware-related; restoring a complete backup from one device to another completely different one is fraught with problems. Apple have it easier as the hardware is a known quantity.

For ease-of-use the manufacturer's own backup solution is invariably best. As an example I backup my own "daily driver", a Sony XZ, to Sony's own cloud service. I recently reset my old Z3 and, without thinking, told it to restore from the same backup. Everything, down to wallpaper and UI theme, was replicated! Very efficient but not what I actually wanted. :oops:
 
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