Why is illegal immigration bad?

[hakr100]

I think there are two major issues in re: the immigration discussion.

The first and most important issue is the protection of our borders, and not just the border with Mexico. Our country is wide open on all of its borders. We've never in our history defended them properly. The thought has been all along that it simply would cost too much.

The second issue is what to do with those who are here illegally. I don't know what a humane, equitable solution might be, but I know rounding up "illegals" en masse and deporting them is not the answer.

Perhaps if we hadn't wasted a trillion dollars waging unnecessary wars against Iraq, we'd have the wherewithal to seriously start defending our borders.

 

[byteware]

Perhaps your state flag has become the equivalent of the old Confederate States battle flag, a symbol of bigotry and hatred to many, many Americans, including me.

I imagine that to a lot of ignorant people, that is probably true.

 

[sEA]

Perhaps if we hadn't wasted a trillion dollars waging unnecessary wars against Iraq, we'd have the wherewithal to seriously start defending our borders.

On that same note, maybe we shouldn't have spent a trillion dollars to bail out banks and major corporations, either. Wasteful spending, unfortunately, seems to be a major trait of the administration in power at any given time.

 

[Rota]

Perhaps if we hadn't wasted a trillion dollars waging unnecessary wars against Iraq, we'd have the wherewithal to seriously start defending our borders.

And the trillion spent on the completely useless "stimulus" isn't wasted money?

How about the wasted taxpayer's money spent suing Arizona over a completely necessary law? Or the wasted money we are paying the Border Patrol to basically look the other way and grant quasi-amnesty to the illegals that are not only felons for being here, but also are breaking more laws in the process?

I'm going to drive to San Diego tomorrow, and there will be at least three Border Patrol roadblocks where I will have to stop, show my ID to verify I am an American citizen, and have my truck sniffed by dogs to confirm I am not smuggling any illegals or illicit items across the border. How is that not any LESS intrusive than Arizona's original law?

 

[xjestersdeadx]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is what gets almost no coverage: that because the U.S. has allowed illegal immigration to become a problem, there is a virtual slave trade going on.

Desperate people are taken advantage of and put in danger by scum who want to make money off of their suffering.

It's easy to point fingers and call everyone who says they're concerned about illegal immigration a bigot, but my question would be- what is you're answer?

Let's take the premise that we have a general amnesty and say that every person here is now legal. Now what? As long as we need a way to orderly and securely allow people to enter the U.S., there will be a new waiting line, and those scum I mentioned above will take advantage.

There are only two ways I can think of to stop (or at least slow) this mistreatment:

1. Have no control whatsoever, an open road where anyone can drive across the border. This eliminates the "market" for those unsavory characters who want to take advantage of those who become victims without realizing what they're getting into.

2. Control the border. The only way to stop the human traders is to catch them at the border.

Beyond all the issues about taxes and benefits and everything else, I really believe this issue gets the least coverage. The other issues can be debated forever, but there is a human trading market that is going on. It can't be denied. If we only have the two realistic choices I mentioned to stop it, which do we choose?

 

[hakr100]

On that same note, maybe we shouldn't have spent a trillion dollars to bail out banks and major corporations, either. Wasteful spending, unfortunately, seems to be a major trait of the administration in power at any given time.

I agree. That trillion dollars should have been spent solely on saving middle class jobs and helping create new ones.

I do think we will get our money back out of the GM bailout.

I would have let the big Wall Street institutions go down the drain.

 

[Isthmus]

I would have let the big Wall Street institutions go down the drain.

While that sounds great in a populist sort of way, you do realize that those "big wall street institutions" have a FAR greater impact on the economy and on the lives of every day people all over the country than any automotive manufacturer right?

 

[byteware]

While that sounds great in a populist sort of way, you do realize that those "big wall street institutions" have a FAR greater impact on the economy and on the lives of every day people all over the country than any automotive manufacturer right?

Seriously, can you imagine what would happen if the larger institutions failed and took, let's say half of, the smaller institutions with them. Think, no direct deposited pay checks. No check cashing (can't trust that the institution is still operating). I mean, we are literally talking TOTAL chaos. Rioting. No, however unpopular it was, they did the right thing.

 

[sEA]

I mean, we are literally talking TOTAL chaos. Rioting.

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

 

[Martimus]

My understanding is that the U.S. government believes the Arizona law usurps and intrudes into the legal turf of the federal government.

I do like the line in your post about numerous liberal news services, and special interest groups. It's the job of the media to call attention, and it is the job of special interest groups to protest or promote within reason. I dislike the propensity of the conservative media to drive wedges between Americans, and to promote hate, fear, and outright lies. But there's nothing I can do about it.

Well I'm sorry to say your understanding is wrong! SB1070 follows FEDERAL LAW... it does not override Federal Law... it does not usurp Federal Law. It does not circumvent Federal Law. In many places it specifically quotes and references existing Federal laws on record but rarely/inconsistently enforced by the United States Federal government.

Maybe you should consider reading the law before commenting on it?

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Ya see... the specific problem here isn't that SB1070 is bad. The problem is that it highlights the fact that the Fed's have chosen to ignore the problem. That causes Obama embarassment and, as we all know, his political style was developed in Chicago... and causing the "capo di tutti capi" embarassment is never a good thing!

There was a great scene in the movie "thirteen days" which focused on the Kennedy's and the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy and his aide Kenny O'Donnell were discussing cancelling a visit to Mayor Daley in Chicago.

"President Kennedy: Have you canceled Chicago and the rest of the weekend yet?
Kenny O'Donnell: You don't show for Chicago, everyone'll know there's something going on.
President Kennedy: I don't care! Just cancel...
Kenny O'Donnell: Forget it!
[Kennedy glares at him]
Kenny O'Donnell: I'm not calling and canceling on Daley!
[Kennedy glares again]
Kenny O'Donnell: You call and cancel on Daley!
President Kennedy: You're scared to cancel on Daley?
Kenny O'Donnell: You're damn right I'm scared.
President Kennedy: Well I'm not.
Kenny O'Donnell: [to Bobby] Watch this.
[cut to Kennedy's arrival in Chicago] "

The end result... the President met with Mayor Daley. Chicago politics... worked well in Al Capone's day! Still works today! LOL

Funny thing... Many of the more outspoken opponents of SB1070 in Washington D.C. have freely admitted they never read the law. Just more proof, I guess, to the old joke:

Know how to tell when a politician is lying?

Their lips are moving!!!!

 

[hakr100]

Well I'm sorry to say your understanding is wrong! SB1070 follows FEDERAL LAW... it does not override Federal Law... it does not usurp Federal Law. It does not circumvent Federal Law. In many places it specifically quotes and references existing Federal laws on record but rarely/inconsistently enforced by the United States Federal government.

Maybe you should consider reading the law before commenting on it?

I've read the law. It is racially-ethnically motivated. BTW, I read where the ditzy governor of Arizona has recanted her claims of "headless in the desert."

 

[Martimus]

I've read the law. It is racially-ethnically motivated."

Nah... your glaring mis-statement in your response tells a much different story Hakr! Like Barrack Obama, Janet Napolitano, and Eric Holder you talk the talk but see little value in walking the walk.

Have a wonderful Labor day holiday Hakr!

 

[Thefoodman52]

By far, I think, the shortest answer here.

It's illegal.

 

[Snow_Fox]

I would just like to put in my 0.02$....

First.. I welcome any immigrant who wants to come here legally. I welcome them with open arms.

Anyone who is willing to follow the laws and pay taxes is *just* as American as I am.

However, I do think we need to be very clear about a few things.

One of which is here in louisiana.. The government gets paid from my work *BEFORE* I do. by the time my check is deposited into my bank account, uncle sam already has his portion of my hard earned work.

Now.. in addition to that everyone in L.A. pays 9% on everything.. However, an illegal immigrant isn't going to pay state or federal taxes which are taken straight out of the paycheck. They may contribute to the local economy in the form of buying whatever is a necessity and possibly some luxuries.. But, that doesn't mean they are putting the money in the bank, buying their kids clothes *here* and raising a family *here*.. it means they are living here.. and paying for their families who live in other countries.. mexico, honduras, puerto rico, ect ect.

Which means money *is* leaving the economy.. and I am not trying to 1-up anyone here but, they do earn their money.. Think 110 in a desert is bad? here.. not only is it hot.. but, its humid.. sweat doesn't evaporate it sticks to you.. making you feel even hotter.

Now.. I do feel bad for them.. I do realize they don't all "live the high life" but, I assure you, they do have a negative impact on our economy.

In regards to those who are here at the mercy of drug runners.. well... I'm about to make a thread on that..

 

[Isthmus]

I'm not for illegal immigration, but I do want to shed a little light on a point that keeps on being raised incorrectly - that illegals pay no taxes. While that may be true of those working under the table (even though they still pay lots of non-income related taxes), for a while now, most of the US businesses that used to hire the bulk of illegal immigrants in the US have been under heavy pressure to verify their paperwork (or at least make sure that some paperwork was provided at hiring). In a great many cases the paperwork is real, just not belonging to the person providing it. a very large portion of illegals in this country actually use real identities illegally and pay very real income taxes and social security taxes on that income, and get no benefits from them in return.

I'm not saying that Illegals should get any more favorable treatment because of this. however I just wanted to clarify that to say that all illegals here contribute nothing to our tax base is actually way off.

Here are a few articles illustrating the point a little better:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/04/AR2006060400965.html

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

just stick to their facts and draw your own conclusions.

 

[Snow_Fox]

One problem I have with your "light" is that while they may be paying taxes and what not... they are now stealing identity which is another crime. So now they are no longer just illegal immigrants but, identity theives.

If they cane work under someone else's name/social why not use that same info for other purposes?

 

[ElasticNinja]

Just to point out something:
Most of the illegal immigrants into the EU come from countries that the developed world's companies exploit and keep poor.


Anyway before complaining, you should try and end this explotation by telling your congreesman/MEP/MP what you think

Just my

 

[Polishdog]

We can't go on paying for all of these anchor babies, its going to catch up with us eventually. LA county spent over 52 million dollars on anchor babies, its completely out of control.

 

[hakr100]

We can't go on paying for all of these anchor babies, its going to catch up with us eventually. LA county spent over 52 million dollars on anchor babies, its completely out of control.

The term "anchor baby" is right-wing hate speech, in case you didn't know.

 

[copestag]

yes anything that points out the truth is hate speech...... FFS

 

[Chidori602]

Frankly, I welcome hard-working Mexicans who want jobs here and their families. I see these folks almost every day, working their butts off for little pay and typically miserable working conditions.

To make room for them, I suggest we deport all the fat-assed, lazy Americans and their families who show up at rallies to express their hatred for Mexicans and other latinos. These whiners seem to do nothing more than show up at Sarah Palin/Teabag rallies with their misspelled signs and whine, whine, whine. Most of them don't look like they could pick up a broom, much less push it. Oh, and let's get rid of the wall street fraudmeisters, too.


Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't deport any illegals who commit violent crimes or engage in criminal conspiracies, but that's not a large percentage of immigrants.

Your logic is flawed, along with many other bleeding hearts on here.

Illegals drain our economy plain and simple. They pay no taxes yet reap the same benefits as taxpayers, they work for well below minimum wage therefore taking away jobs from all of us. Illegals need to be deported and the people who employ them need to be fined AND jailed. There are legal routes to come in this country, if your not willing to go those routes then you do not deserve to live here. Perhaps the immigration process should be streamlined, but we should absolutely not just rollover for the illegals that are here now or that come here in the future.

Also, we should not deport any illegals who are criminals, they need to be jailed just as any other criminal then deported upon completion of their sentence.

By putting them in jail you are wasting taxpayers money to keep them in and feed them. Go talk politics somewhere else little girl.

 

[JAL]

Illegal immigration is a unique issue in this country, in that it is mostly an issue that people have strong opinions on even though it doesn't affect them in any way at all. I find that interesting - how people can be so angry and vociferous about a "problem" that has no affect in their lives.

 

[Snow_Fox]

Illegal immigration is a unique issue in this country, in that it is mostly an issue that people have strong opinions on even though it doesn't affect them in any way at all. I find that interesting - how people can be so angry and vociferous about a "problem" that has no affect in their lives.

Do you honestly believe that there are no negative impacts on society due to a massive amount of people entering the country illegally?

I find discussion on illegal immigration to be a better cause for conversation/possible concern than paris hilton being in possession of cocaine..

While there is racist views out the fact is illegal immigration does have an impact.

I do think at the moment everything discussed has some degree of validity and is very important.

IE. If Immigrants are working *and* paying income tax due to using someone elses social.

What is to stop them from spending on the persons social.

If they are being paid under the table what about the fact they aren't paying social security?

If they aren't being paid minimum wage they are giving one company an advantage over another.

It affects us all in some way or another. I would like solid evidence illigal immigration has no effect. No matter who is right/wrong in this thread.. it ultimately *ALL* has an effect :/

 

[JAL]

Do you honestly believe that there are no negative impacts on society due to a massive amount of people entering the country illegally?

Do you honestly believe that are no positive impacts?

Better yet, have you performed that analysis, and are you ready to post the spreadsheet with your results, here, in this thread?

 

[copestag]

Do you honestly believe that are no positive impacts?

this argument is ridiculous at best....... there are positive impacts to EVERYTHING

**this example is not a comparison to illegal immigration so dont get all excited looking for a reason to flame**

if there is an outbreak of rapes or murders all of a sudden..... sales of personal protection products increase...... this has a positive impact on the economy....... so we should look the other way and not worry about rapists or murderers?

**

now back to illegal immigration...... to argue theres a positive impact so it shoud somehow be OK ...... like I said... ridiculous

regardless of whether they commit other crimes while they are in the US...... every ILLEGAL immigrant is a criminal ..... period

there is a process for entering this country legally...... I have no problem with every one of them becoming citizens if they follow the process