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Incredible, we're through. Android, you may be next...

93civiccpe said:
I by no means am an apple fan, mainly because I can't stand their arrogant figurehead Steve Jobs. He's a control freak and it leaks down through all their overpriced products. Apple's biggest strength in the past has been their advertising. (Apple copied Creative's mp3 player to get the ipod, but they advertised it better and made a killing. Creative had a video mp3 player when the first gen ipods came out. It is why Apple got sued and happily paid up.. they advertise well and create a loyal following).

That being said, we probably wouldn't have Android right now if it were not for Apple and the Iphone (well, I guess if it weren't for Creative and their first mp3 player to be more exact). Anyways, anyone who came from a windows mobile phone, a crackberry, etc. can tell you how bad smart phones have been in the past. They could barely do business functions and were painfully slow and crashed all the time. The Iphone changed the industry, and spurned competition bringing us android.

Now, it becomes a personal choice as to which path to go, but I do want to highlight one of your statements. You mentioned that you could always jailbreak the iphone (if it comes to verizon and you get it). With rooting the Incredible being so easy, and the unroot method also being very simple to put it back to stock, I would suggest you at least try it. The new 2.2 OS brought all sorts of problems for me, mainly with the bloatware. I rooted simply to get that bloatware off, which has made my phone run MUCH smoother and has taken away most of my problems. I'm running a 1500maH battery and can get through a full day with moderate use. I have seen where the new roms and custom kernals are extending battery life and running even smoother. I'm personally going to go down that path as soon as the roms and kernels get a little more stable / more polished.

The whole concept of the Android OS is being an "open source" operating system that you can do more with. That is how Google intended it. And quite frankly, HTC has shown they are perfectly fine with that. (The Nexus One had a one button option to run custom roms/root or to run the stock image). The problem is that the Service Providers want to charge for everything they possibly can to make every penny they can. And ALL of the carriers do this. Look at the functionality that AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile have either stripped out or found a way to lock unless you pay for the services that Google intended to be free. Sadly enough, the only way to truly use the operating system the way the designers at Google intended is to root it and take control of what you do or do not want. HTC has shown they have no problem with it, but they are not about to upset the providers as that would cost them money. And don't think it is just Verizon, ALL of the major providers are doing this. So I would advise you to at least consider looking around the "all things root" forum. There are a LOT of very smart developers in there that have been extremely helpful to me in rooting my phone and removing all the crapware/bloatware that was hanging up my phone. I truly believe that if you root, remove the bloatware, and run one of the newer roms and kernels you will see the true potential of android and might be pleasantly surprised.
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Thank you! I'll repsond later, however, this is the kind of debating I was talking about! I like your input! You didn't just tell me to leave or go away!
 
DroidsIsPerfecked!!! said:
For those who say "nononononoooo, Android is FREE", and really aren't getting rich from it, how stupid are you? How much did you pay for your Incredible? NOT less than you would pay for an equivalent-level Iphone, nor less than you would pay for Palm OS, nor Windows Mobile! Yeah, just try and prove that any corporate giant passes their cost savings back to the consumer!
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I am not even going to address the majority of your rant (I mean post :cool:) but this part amused me.

Android is SOFTWARE. Incredible is HARDWARE. Two very different things. Just like iOS is SOFTWARE, which iPhone is HARDWARE. So basically... I have no idea what you are talking about.

I will say this though. I paid less for my Incredible than every single person I know with an iPhone paid for their iPhone, iPhone 2, iPhone 3 or iPhone 4. My Incredible cost me $99 (and that's through Verizon, without corporate discounts) while the cheapest I know someone paid for an iPhone is $199 (and that was the iPhone 3). Most people paid a lot more than that for it.
 
Bisnicks said:
I've made up my mind with HTC. Android still has hope.

I want to see if any of you can give your side with the problems I've had. Not trying to argue.
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Sorry, that doesn't jibe with your "Android, we're through" title, not to mention that you state "the second the Verizon iPhone comes out (hopefully January), I'll have it."

You could have started a thread "I'm having problems with my Incredible and am considering dropping it if I can't find solutions", but you chose not to. You chose to be as inflammatory as possible.

You've clearly decided and now just seem to want to argue. I'm not sure why, but it's a waste of time. Good luck. And good bye.
 
Just a quick comment for you DroidsIsPerfecked, How much did Google charge HTC, Motorola, LG, etc for their operating system?? You didn't pay Google, you paid Verizon, who in turn paid HTC. Just because all of the people between google and you upcharged the phone to meet the market demands does not change the fact that this is free software from Google. HTC adds their own proprietary software which I'm sure they are charging for, and of course Verizon has added their bloatware. But look at the facts and don't blame Google... they've never hidden that this is based on the Linux /open source concept... but while we are on that point, every Apple OS from OSX to now has been build off of a Linux Kernal, and they have one of the steepest charges for their OS... please compare apples to apples. Mac took the kernel for free, added a very nice looking and functional graphical user interface, and then charged the consumer a huge fee for it...
 
If there isn't improvement to my battery life soon (got a Seido 3600 which performs like my damned stock battery post 2.2 AND YES I DID THE [deleted by mod] FACTORY RESET) then I'll soon be right behind you.

Google has been nothing short of underhanded in witholding the word "Linux" from all of it's Android system hype, but the bulk of Android fanboys are no different from the mattress-stains who will waste your time as they solicit your donations, making themselves richer than you may think while still maintaining their "Hey, what do you want - it's free!" attitude. Had I known this fact (that Android is basically just another Linux distro) then there's no way in hell I would have paid Google for this.

For those who say "nononononoooo, Android is FREE", how stupid are you? How much did you pay for your Incredible? NOT less than you would pay for an equivalent-level Iphone, nor less than you would pay for Palm OS, nor Windows Mobile! Yeah, just try and prove that any corporate giant passes their cost savings back to the consumer!

Android has some features which beat the competing systems, but only when they work, which makes it no different from any Linux distro. Just like Android, Ubuntu Linux (the most popular Linux distro for desktops) is extremely sloppy at making it's purported features actually work for everyone, but at least it's designers have the excuse of a wider range of hardware to accommodate, while lacking the market power of either Google or Microsoft with the hardware developers. Google has no such excuses, but they do have the same rabid fanboys for experts who are just as happy to attack anyone who complains of problems for not wishing to screw around for hours, days, and weeks just to make their phones work reasonably well without causing more problems than their basic phones ever did. There is a thin line between options, customization, and wasting time, and most smart phone users (those who aren't high ranking on forums) actually have better things to do than to waste it solving the new problems, which are created for every problem solved.

It's not that there aren't any nice people on this forum who try and help, but it's a fact of life that tech gurus rarely understand the consumer view, and that business people who do understand how to make consumers happy haven't done so for several decades, as they have only been getting paid for helping their employers squeeze the consumers for short-term profits. This is why the Android can't cut it.
 
DroidsIsPerfecked!!! said:
Google has been nothing short of underhanded in witholding the word "Linux" from all of it's Android system hype, but the bulk of Android fanboy promoters are no different from any mattress-stains who will waste your time as they solicit your donations, making themselves richer than you may think, while still maintaining their "Hey, what do you want - it's free!" attitude. Had I known this fact (that Android is basically just another Linux distro) than there's no way in hell I would have paid Google for this.
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While it may be true that Google did not go out of their way to advertise that the Android OS is based on a Linux core, most everyone who did any research prior to buying an Android phone came across that information. I don't agree with your supposition that Google was underhanded or intentionally withheld the information. I also don't think that Linux is a bad word or a bad OS. In fact, I think and it appears that Linux in Android form, is ideally suited to the mobile phone platform.

There is no perfect computer or mobile phone OS. I do not feel cheated that the so called free OS savings was not passed on to the customers. I applaud Google for their ingenuity for invoking an open source platform. Kudos to Google, the emperor has clothes.
 
I'm glad to see others in this thread sharing their experiences with this phone instead of flaming me.

Clearly, this isn't a opinion held only by me but other Incredible/ Android users.
 
elborak said:
Wow. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
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Are you serious?? I work in this industry. I do use the term "linux" loosely, I will admit. Mac OS-X was a huge change for them in the fact that they went away from their original operating system and originally wanted to use UNIX, but didn't want to pay SUN microsystems for it. So in turn they bought a smaller company that had their own "Unix" kernal which most know of as a mix between Unix/Linux. I believe it was the mach kernal they used but I may be mistaken. In any case, it was not their own operating system that they wrote. They went away from their own operating system and it was one of the smartest moves they have ever made. Unix is by far the MOST STABLE operating system out there. Anyone who has ever used a SUN Microstation can attest to that. In any case, I have a lot of background in this field and do not like being called a liar by someone who has no facts and is talking out of their butt. If you do have something intelligent to say, please feel free to provide it, but I'd be extremely surprised at this point.
 
93civiccpe said:
Are you serious?? I work in this industry. I do use the term "linux" loosely, I will admit. Mac OS-X was a huge change for them in the fact that they went away from their original operating system and originally wanted to use UNIX, but didn't want to pay SUN microsystems for it. So in turn they bought a smaller company that had their own "Unix" kernal which most know of as a mix between Unix/Linux. I believe it was the mach kernal they used but I may be mistaken. In any case, it was not their own operating system that they wrote. They went away from their own operating system and it was one of the smartest moves they have ever made. Unix is by far the MOST STABLE operating system out there. Anyone who has ever used a SUN Microstation can attest to that. In any case, I have a lot of background in this field and do not like being called a liar by someone who has no facts and is talking out of their butt. If you do have something intelligent to say, please feel free to provide it, but I'd be extremely surprised at this point.
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I was not aware that the MAC OS-X core OS is UNIX / LINUX based. Thank you for the information.
 
93civiccpe said:
Are you serious?? I work in this industry. I do use the term "linux" loosely, I will admit. Mac OS-X was a huge change for them in the fact that they went away from their original operating system and originally wanted to use UNIX, but didn't want to pay SUN microsystems for it. So in turn they bought a smaller company that had their own "Unix" kernal which most know of as a mix between Unix/Linux. I believe it was the mach kernal they used but I may be mistaken. In any case, it was not their own operating system that they wrote. They went away from their own operating system and it was one of the smartest moves they have ever made. Unix is by far the MOST STABLE operating system out there. Anyone who has ever used a SUN Microstation can attest to that. In any case, I have a lot of background in this field and do not like being called a liar
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Well, this is my last word on this as it's not really relevant to the thread.

There is no Linux in the OS X kernel. None. It's not a "Unix/Linux mix". It's based on Mach, which was based on BSD.

I went to CMU and know the guys who developed Mach, and I've been running Linux continuously since version 0.12 (and have contributed code since 0.92 and am listed in the CREDITS file). I know this stuff inside and out. And you're wrong.

And I never called you a liar. I said that you had no idea what you were talking about. And based on your response, I've not changed my mind.
 
93civiccpe said:
Are you serious?? I work in this industry. I do use the term "linux" loosely, I will admit. Mac OS-X was a huge change for them in the fact that they went away from their original operating system and originally wanted to use UNIX, but didn't want to pay SUN microsystems for it. So in turn they bought a smaller company that had their own "Unix" kernal which most know of as a mix between Unix/Linux. I believe it was the mach kernal they used but I may be mistaken. In any case, it was not their own operating system that they wrote. They went away from their own operating system and it was one of the smartest moves they have ever made. Unix is by far the MOST STABLE operating system out there. Anyone who has ever used a SUN Microstation can attest to that. In any case, I have a lot of background in this field and do not like being called a liar by someone who has no facts and is talking out of their butt. If you do have something intelligent to say, please feel free to provide it, but I'd be extremely surprised at this point.
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Cool, you defended yourself from the ranting troll! Always fun to watch :D

To confirm, yes, they went with the mach 3.0 Kernal for the latest OS which is, as you describe, derived from a Unix/Linux mix.

At the end of the day, none of this matters anyway. 90% of users wouldn't even understand what you just said, let alone care. And for the ones that do, they generally don't know what the hell they are talking about, like Mr. DroidsIsPerfecked. They read one article online and suddently think they are experts.

I am not sure if it makes me wanna laugh or cry... :(
 
elborak said:
Sorry, that doesn't jibe with your "Android, we're through" title, not to mention that you state "the second the Verizon iPhone comes out (hopefully January), I'll have it."

You could have started a thread "I'm having problems with my Incredible and am considering dropping it if I can't find solutions", but you chose not to. You chose to be as inflammatory as possible.

You've clearly decided and now just seem to want to argue. I'm not sure why, but it's a waste of time. Good luck. And good bye.
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Right, it's plain to see that you have no purpose in this thread other than to put somebody down, which makes you feel superior.
 
elborak said:
Hmm... I really don't think anything I've posted to this thread could be called ranting or trolling, but I guess perspectives can differ.
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I think that the majority of this thread is ranting and trolling, starting with the OP.


But anyway, I am done now. The OP clearly has his mind made up, so there is no need for discussion there.

And I refuse to get into an argument/debate with someone who knows a guy who knew a guy who developed a Kernel over 15 years ago.
 
The answers to your problems are on this forum Bisnicks, just do a search or just read some of the thread titles, most of the problems you have, other people have too. If think you are going to be glitch free with an Iphone, think again....

everyone I know that has an Iphone has their share of issues too, and just read any of the macintosh/ipod/iphone forums and look at ALL the problems people have with it. And as far as battery life, I'm using the stock battery and my phone outlasts my friends Iphone. And at least with my phone if my battery runs out I can just put a new one in, try doing that with an Iphone, oh and if I need more storage just pop a new SD card in.

BUT Android is not for everyone, some people can't handle all the options(yes, options lead to issues) you have. If you really want a problem free phone go back to a dumb phone, a problem free "smartphone" does NOT exist.
 
The cool part is . . . you can go or you can stay. No debate is necessary. I've never had any problems other than battery life out of my phone, once I realized it's a smartphone and it's up to me to manage it, I have no issues. The only reboots I experience is when I flash an unstable ROM. Easy fix . . . I flash a stable one. Want to have different ROM choices? Better not run to the AppPhone, err iPhone. The wall around that garden is so high that even if you did climb it Groundskeeper Stevie would likely sue you for trying to get out with secrets to sell to the hated HTC. You're not a spy are you . . . anyway . . . I digress.

If you are having all of the problems that you say you are might be for the best to go. Toyota, Honda, GM, Ford and Chrysler all sell a lot of cars. You always hear of someone getting a lemon. Heck there are laws in place for lemons in most states. Perhaps you got a lemon. Perhaps you have no idea about how to use your phone and are causing MOST of the problems with "ill gotten apps" or tweaks you've done. I don't really know, what I do know is that this thread is pretty much useless and should be closed before it becomes a TROLL haven.
 
What's to debate here again?

I love my Dinc. I've never owned an iPhone, but I can't really say the Incredible has any downfalls. I get my gmail synced, I chat on gtalk, I can customize the look of the homescreens and make use of alternative apps from the basic stock ones (handcent and droid 2 keyboard for example). It's a wonderful device for MY needs and it meets my expectations for owning a smartphone.

I just rooted last night because I wanted to play with more features. I removed all the bloatware, so I'm already enjoying root! Now the fun begins with roms...

@OP, sounds like you don't enjoy your phone. If you want to hate it, go get another one. Instead, try creating threads that have a clear outline of your issues so the wealth of knowledge here or at any other forum can help you out.
 
sdrawkcab25 said:
The answers to your problems are on this forum Bisnicks, just do a search or just read some of the thread titles, most of the problems you have, other people have too. If think you are going to be glitch free with an Iphone, think again....

everyone I know that has an Iphone has their share of issues too, and just read any of the macintosh/ipod/iphone forums and look at ALL the problems people have with it. And as far as battery life, I'm using the stock battery and my phone outlasts my friends Iphone. And at least with my phone if my battery runs out I can just put a new one in, try doing that with an Iphone, oh and if I need more storage just pop a new SD card in.

BUT Android is not for everyone, some people can't handle all the options(yes, options lead to issues) you have. If you really want a problem free phone go back to a dumb phone, a problem free "smartphone" does NOT exist.
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You are correct, there are issues on the i-phone as well but % of problems to phones I would have to think it's much higher on the incredible.

If you really think the Inc. battery life is better than an I-phone you are flat out wrong. Using both it is not even close. I did not have to bring a charger to work with me with my I-phone. If I don't bring one with my Inc. I am dead by 3:00-4:00. FWIW, I do use it more than the avg. user but no more than my I-phone.
 
Websurfer said:
While it may be true that Google did not go out of their way to advertise that the Android OS is based on a Linux core, most everyone who did any research prior to buying an Android phone came across that information. I don't agree with your supposition that Google was underhanded or intentionally withheld the information. I also don't think that Linux is a bad word or a bad OS. In fact, I think and it appears that Linux in Android form, is ideally suited to the mobile phone platform.

There is no perfect computer or mobile phone OS. I do not feel cheated that the so called free OS savings was not passed on to the customers. I applaud Google for their ingenuity for invoking an open source platform. Kudos to Google, the emperor has clothes.
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Linux is actually one of the most beautiful systems ever created, but just how beautiful it is depends on whether you can get it running on the hardware which you have. The Linux promoters claim that their system runs on "most" PC hardware, but if you bought a non-Dell or non-HP to save money, and your ACER works as fine with Windows as any Windows hardware, you may not get the same results in Linux. Linux has some great ideas, and on actual SERVER computers it may actually be more stable, but I don't run servers, and I had a few crashes while running Ubuntu Linux. Some of the distros, being created by hobbyists, are just downright sloppy, and all too many applications which get accepted on the Linux repositories will do nothing but waste your time. Audio and video problems may never be resolved without buying expensive, new hardware. Linux has great ideas, but for all too many users the quality just sucks @ss, while the developers are too hung up on their own egos to deal constructively with their quality issues.

If you don't feel cheated that the "Emperor" (Google) did not pass it's free-system-savings on to you (as if any system ever developed really was free), than please don't invoke the argument which so many here have that Android is free. We, the consumers, don't like being lied to.
 
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