Will You Upgrade (Evo 3D)

[Internetpilot]

I've seen plenty of down/up sized ports but they always have gfx glitches. Some images might be scalable .9's but the ones that aren't need manual editing or replacing and there is a few thousand files to edit.

Also look at the ports we got awhile back from the Desire Z, they were the same resolution so no editing had to be done but look how long it took for them to get everything working. Almost 2 months. Evo 3D will have a even newer version of Sense probably requiring lots of kernel differences from the 4G, that stuff can take a long time to fix.

I'm all for having the newest firmware on my 4G even though I'm gonna have the 3D, but it takes a lot more work and time then your giving.

Well, just the new version of Sense is proving to be a deal-stopper for any single core processor phone, causing me to re-think my original "it will be ported" stance. I like Sense myself, but I'm not going to force it on to my phone if that comes with significant negative performance impact.

Which brings another negative to the Evo 3D (and other HTC Sense-based phones).. Sure, it has a beefier processor, but what's the point if all that beefiness is immediately taken away by a bloated Sense 3.0 (or whatever the version number will be). I mean, c'mon HTC -- it's a user interface (ie, Sense UI), not a whole other operating system.

 

[Internetpilot]

1. I wouldn't buy it for the 3D either, but I didn't buy the Evo for the HD camcorder. If it ONLY had a 3D camera, then it would be a drawback. Having it as a one-click option makes it a plus, in my book. In addition, as someone else stated, you don't need a 3D TV to take advantage of it. How anyone can say that the fact that the phone has a 3D option is a bad thing is beyond me. It is a moot point at worst.

Ask XBox 360 users how moot their HD-DVD drive is. I would venture to say it sucks royally for them that the BluRay standard won out, rendering the HD-DVD standard completely useless.

The same thing can happen to the 3D feature on the Evo 3D. No, it shouldn't be the primary reason why anyone would buy this phone, but, y'know, it is called the Evo 3D so HTC must think it's an important feature. Plus, how much of the beefier processor, OS upgrade, etc., is required due to the implementation of 3D in this phone? The Evo 4G is still a top-of-the-hill beast in the phone world. Why the need to for such a significant hardware upgrade? Because they can? Maybe. Because they had to with the implementation 3D? I would guess that likely had a lot to do with it. I also think that the ridiculous hardware requirements for Sense 3.0 (or whatever version it will be) was an afterthought. Meaning, HTC didn't say, "Let's upgrade Sense to the point that it requires a giga-core processor that isn't even invented yet." The HTC developer department got the hardware specs from their engineering department, and then decided what features to put in the new Sense. That's my theory anyway.

3D in its current formS (emphasis on the plural, because there are too many 3D standards out there right now) is working from zero standards. The TVs out there now are ridiculous -- none of them are the same standard. Some require glasses, some don't, some glasses require batteries, some don't, etc. And that's just TV's -- we're not even talking about the input devices yet -- cameras, disc players, cable, satellite, etc. It's just too new, and I laugh at all these people jumping head-first into it, because they have to be the first on the block to have it. In a year or two, I may end up with a 3D TV, but it will probably be because that's the only type of new TV sold, and by then a single standard will be nailed down so I won't be stuck with abandonware.

2. I will miss the kickstand as well, but I sure wouldn't let that small, easy to replace feature keep me from other more important goodies like image quality, speed, and upgraded user interface. Different strokes, though, I suppose.

Again, I highly suspect your speed from the new processor will be quickly negated by the bloated new Sense. If HTC is being honest that they cannot update the Evo to the new Sense because of it's "lowly" processor, then I can guarantee you that the new Sense is going to chew up most of your speed in the 3D.

But again, like you and others have said, different strokes for different folks. I came to the Evo game late, so that definitely explains a lot as to why I'm still happy with my Evo 4G. But if I was making my buying decision now instead of 5 months ago, I don't know if I would go with the Evo 3D, and that would predominately be due to the 3D feature for the reasons stated above.

 

[novox77]

Another con left off the list (though is only a rumor right now, but will be an incredibly massive con if it comes true) is the rumored encrypted bootloader.

It's not even a rumor. It's speculation, and there's a big difference. A rumor has a foundation of an anonymous source that claims something to be true. Speculation is just a bunch of people's guesses.

And even the speculation around the bootloader is based on very uninformed or sensationalist (take your pick) journalism.

Some guy on androidpolice in mid-March made the "discovery" that the Thunderbolt bootloader was (gasp) locked. And that it enforced (gasp) signed images. That report got picked up by a ton of places, and all this speculation about the direction HTC is going with their bootloaders. "What, they're locked AND signed now? What's next? encrypted?"

Ok, take a step back. Every phone HTC has so far released has contained the exact same security measures. Our beloved Evo had a locked bootloader that enforced signed images. So did the Incredible. So did the Shift. There's NOTHING different about the Thunderbolt. There is NO trend toward more secure bootloaders. There's NO reason to think that HTC is moving in this direction.

Meanwhile, there are rumors in the industry is that manufacturers are leaning away from bootloader security because of how mainstream the rooting community has become with Android phones. Sony and Samsung are considering leaving bootloaders unlocked out of the box. Sources below. Motorola is the only company that built a fortress around their bootloader with the exception of the original Droid and the Xoom. There's no indication that any other company besides Motorola cares about locking up their hardware completely.

Sony:
Sony Ericsson To Unveil Bootloader Unlock Tools In The Coming Weeks - TNW Mobile

Samsung:
New Samsung Devices to feature Unlocked Bootloaders | Android Headlines

 

[EarlyMon]

As the guy who started the 3D rumor, I tend to agree, but once it gets a life in the net (see what I did there?) it's a rumor in any case. (I was clowning when I started it, for example.)

Best evidence for the truth is 100% as you say - an encrypted bootloader is baloney for the 3D.

But no one will say that now - alarmism breeds ad revenue clicks.

 

[lordofthereef]

Ask XBox 360 users how moot their HD-DVD drive is. I would venture to say it sucks royally for them that the BluRay standard won out, rendering the HD-DVD standard completely useless.

The same thing can happen to the 3D feature on the Evo 3D. No, it shouldn't be the primary reason why anyone would buy this phone, but, y'know, it is called the Evo 3D so HTC must think it's an important feature. Plus, how much of the beefier processor, OS upgrade, etc., is required due to the implementation of 3D in this phone? The Evo 4G is still a top-of-the-hill beast in the phone world.

Can't really compare HD-DVD add-on drive for the 360 to a feature built into a phone. People forked out a bunch of money for the drive and now there is no new content being created for it. If the 3D WASN'T built into this phone, the rest of the specs would likely be similar as they are on-par with the spec of phones coming out in this time period. Unless contract price is more than $200, we aren't paying anything more for the 3d feature than we would be for the next gen phone. Being that the 3D isn't actually going to be 3D all the time, running every day tasks outside of using the 3D pictures and video should leave all resources available to you.

Again, I highly suspect your speed from the new processor will be quickly negated by the bloated new Sense.

Who here is excited about the EVO3D and doesn't plan to run a custom rom anyway? If it's so bloated and bad, we will all just dump it for a custom ROM that is more efficient. In any case, you are basing your assumptions on the fact that prelimanry evidence indicates that Sense 3.0 will require a dual core processor? By those standards any software upgrade that has a higher than the current average hardware requirement should be assumed to be bloated and slowed down.

 

[bvbull200]

I know lordofthereef beat me to the punch, but I get my say, too.

Ask XBox 360 users how moot their HD-DVD drive is. I would venture to say it sucks royally for them that the BluRay standard won out, rendering the HD-DVD standard completely useless.

What a terrible, terrible analogy. Had the 3D option been a $50 add-on to the Evo 3D, then you may have a point, but even then it would still be weak. The HD-DVD drive was an extra accessory and when BluRay took the market, then you were stuck with only what you already had. With the phone, it is an integrated feature and, in the event that the 3D format it uses falls by the wayside, you can STILL take new pictures and enjoy them in 3D on your phone. How is that a losing proposition? Again, at worst, it doesn't reach its full potential. There is NO drawback to having the option to use 3D on the phone.

The same thing can happen to the 3D feature on the Evo 3D. No, it shouldn't be the primary reason why anyone would buy this phone, but, y'know, it is called the Evo 3D so HTC must think it's an important feature.

Replace the word "feature" with "selling point" and I may start to side with you. Heck, I might even give you "gimmick". The 3D is about as important as 4G is on the current Evo. People will want it mostly to say that have it and there is a solid chance that it won't see a whole lot of use from most users. If I use it as much as I use 4G (which isn't a whole lot anymore), then I will be glad that I have the "feature". That still leaves a real possibility that it is an AWESOME feature that I fall in love with.

Plus, how much of the beefier processor, OS upgrade, etc., is required due to the implementation of 3D in this phone? The Evo 4G is still a top-of-the-hill beast in the phone world. Why the need to for such a significant hardware upgrade? Because they can? Maybe. Because they had to with the implementation 3D? I would guess that likely had a lot to do with it.

I couldn't care less how much of the processor, OS, etc. the 3D implementation uses on the phone. When I take a picture with my phone, that is all that I am doing, so it could require 99% of available resources to take the picture for all I care, so long as I can still receive calls/texts. Are you somehow thinking that the processor has to continue to render/capture 3D images when you are just sending a text or browsing the web?

I also think that the ridiculous hardware requirements for Sense 3.0 (or whatever version it will be) was an afterthought. Meaning, HTC didn't say, "Let's upgrade Sense to the point that it requires a giga-core processor that isn't even invented yet." The HTC developer department got the hardware specs from their engineering department, and then decided what features to put in the new Sense. That's my theory anyway.

If the Evo 3D is slower, then I will eat crow, but I simply do not see that happening. I'd venture to guess that an Evo 3D out of the box will run quicker than my current rooted, custom ROM, bloatware free Evo.

3D in its current formS (emphasis on the plural, because there are too many 3D standards out there right now) is working from zero standards. The TVs out there now are ridiculous -- none of them are the same standard. Some require glasses, some don't, some glasses require batteries, some don't, etc. And that's just TV's -- we're not even talking about the input devices yet -- cameras, disc players, cable, satellite, etc. It's just too new, and I laugh at all these people jumping head-first into it, because they have to be the first on the block to have it. In a year or two, I may end up with a 3D TV, but it will probably be because that's the only type of new TV sold, and by then a single standard will be nailed down so I won't be stuck with abandonware.

That's just fine with me. A year or two you say, before a 3D standard is nailed down? That's fine with me. I will be eligible for 2 more phones beyond the Evo 3D and it will be "abandonware" for far more reasons than its chosen form of 3D implementation.

Again, I highly suspect your speed from the new processor will be quickly negated by the bloated new Sense. If HTC is being honest that they cannot update the Evo to the new Sense because of it's "lowly" processor, then I can guarantee you that the new Sense is going to chew up most of your speed in the 3D.

There is nothing to suggest that the new Sense and Android will cripple the new processor to a point that it is slower than the current Evo. Nothing.

But again, like you and others have said, different strokes for different folks. I came to the Evo game late, so that definitely explains a lot as to why I'm still happy with my Evo 4G. But if I was making my buying decision now instead of 5 months ago, I don't know if I would go with the Evo 3D, and that would predominately be due to the 3D feature for the reasons stated above.

What are the chances that the current Evo (Evo 4G) has its 3D format adopted by the industry?

 

[EarlyMon]

All we really know is that they advertised you could watch 3D movies from a source such as Blockbuster, and play content via the port.

If 3D really works over DLNA, and I don't know if does, then that would suggest a de facto standard.

But so long as it plays foreign content and can stream it via HDMI, then it's as future-proof as any of today's 3D gear.

Meaning: more than zero, less than certainty.

Fwiw, while final delivery through the tv varies, the tv inputs are standardized already. DirecTV, BD, etc, all work with the present TVs.

Whatever format the Evo 3D uses, guaranteed it wasn't created in a vacuum.

PS see also - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_television#DVB_3D-TV_standard

And note in the popular CTIA Evo 3D video, the Sprint rep explicitly said the beast supports left-right (SbS) and top-bottom formats in the input stream.

PS - After reading up on stream standards and 3D photo image standards - no reason it wouldn't work thru DLNA.

 

[novox77]

Just to address the whole "lack of a standard for 3D" nonsense:

If you look at regular old 2D video formats today, what's the standard?

AVI?
MPG?
MP4/M4V?
WMV?
MTS?
FLV?
MKV?
...

If you look at audio files:
MP3?
OGG?
WAV?
RA?
WMA?
AAC?
M4A?
...

If you look at images:
JPG?
BMP?
TIF(F)?
GIF?
PNG?
TGA?
PCX?
...


We're talking about software here. This isn't blu-ray vs hd-dvd or VHS vs betamax, which are hardware-dependent. A bunch of formats are going to appear, and some will be more useful than others depending on their application. A good player is going to support most if not all formats.

And even hardware doesn't require standards. iPhone proprietary connector definitely isn't a standard. Yet cars now come with "ipod" connectors. The smarter cars ALSO come with a standard USB port for non iDevices. But remember which came first: ipod? or ipod connections in cars?

First movers get a chance to define the standard.

 

[Internetpilot]

Who here is excited about the EVO3D and doesn't plan to run a custom rom anyway? If it's so bloated and bad, we will all just dump it for a custom ROM that is more efficient.

The VAST majority of Android phone users do NOT root their phones and flash new ROMs/kernels. For that matter, the VAST majority of Android phone users never see this forum.

In any case, you are basing your assumptions on the fact that prelimanry evidence indicates that Sense 3.0 will require a dual core processor? By those standards any software upgrade that has a higher than the current average hardware requirement should be assumed to be bloated and slowed down.

You mean the preliminary evidence straight from the horse's mouth (HTC)? Directly from HTC's official Twitter account:

"...due to Sense's hardware requirements, only our newest devices (Flyer, EVO 3D, Sensation) will be able to support it"

Add that to all the other bloat that Sprint will put on it that runs at first boot, and that dual core will be quickly whittled down to nothing. Sure, people can root it, freeze/delete apps, and/or put a different ROM on there, but, again, MOST people do not root their phones.

 

[Internetpilot]

Dejavue....it feels like I've responded to this post before....almost like it was re-written or something....hmmm.....

What a terrible, terrible analogy. Had the 3D option been a $50 add-on to the Evo 3D, then you may have a point, but even then it would still be weak. The HD-DVD drive was an extra accessory and when BluRay took the market, then you were stuck with only what you already had.

It's an excellent analogy.

What you said is not entirely true -- new Xbox 360's were being sold with the HD-DVD drive installed. I know this because when I bought one for my son, I opted to buy an older one that had the regular DVD drive instead. This admittedly wasn't due to my foreseeing the eventual market dominance of BluRay as much as we already had a PS3 with a BluRay drive and I saw no reason to invest in two different high def DVD technologies before I saw which standard would become the most supported. I admit that I didn't think one of the technologies would go away completely, just like most HD-DVD owners didn't think that.

The exact same thing is happening to 3D technology -- in still and video cameras, TVs, portable devices, etc. There is no current standard, and until there is I will not be buying anything with 3D on the feature list because it could just as easily be a similar waste of money as it would've been to buy the XBox with the HD-DVD installed.

Replace the word "feature" with "selling point" and I may start to side with you. Heck, I might even give you "gimmick". The 3D is about as important as 4G is on the current Evo. People will want it mostly to say that have it and there is a solid chance that it won't see a whole lot of use from most users. If I use it as much as I use 4G (which isn't a whole lot anymore), then I will be glad that I have the "feature". That still leaves a real possibility that it is an AWESOME feature that I fall in love with.

I use 4G on my Evo every single day. I made sure there was 4G coverage in my area before I bought it. Just like I will wait to see what type of 3D technology emerges as "THE standard" before I invest in anything 3D.

That's just fine with me. A year or two you say, before a 3D standard is nailed down? That's fine with me. I will be eligible for 2 more phones beyond the Evo 3D and it will be "abandonware" for far more reasons than its chosen form of 3D implementation.

I used my last phone for 4 years -- it's still working fine. Not everyone upgrades their phone every 1 to 2 years. Those people have high potential to take a big hit if this fabulous 3D feature on the Evo 3D turns out to not be the standard the rest of the industry goes with.

There is nothing to suggest that the new Sense and Android will cripple the new processor to a point that it is slower than the current Evo. Nothing.

Nothing except that it apparently won't run well at all on the current king-of-the-hill phone specs like the Evo 4G. That suggests to me that it requires a lot of power. Will the dual core be whittled away by that requirement? Time will tell.

*** OPINION WARNING! OPINION WARNING! ***

I think when you add the new Sense and all the other usual Sprint bloatware, you're going to have a bogged down dual core that won't show much, if any, better performance the Evo 4G on the current version of Sense. Remember, most Android phone owners don't root/flash a custom ROM. So they're stuck with whatever Sprint/HTC gives them. It's the regular customer that dictates the lifecycle of a phone model -- not the rooters.

 

[lordofthereef]

What you said is not entirely true -- new Xbox 360's were being sold with the HD-DVD drive installed.

This is off topic, but they never sold an XBOX 360 with an HD-DVD drive installed. Some stores (ie Best Buy) may have had a package deal, but the only HD-DVD drive for the 360 is the external one. This I know is 100% fact.

If my saying this is out of bounds, apologies. Please delete.

 

[lordofthereef]

The VAST majority of Android phone users do NOT root their phones and flash new ROMs/kernels. For that matter, the VAST majority of Android phone users never see this forum.

You are absolutely right, and you will see that I have said this very same thing many times. But we are talking about if we (the people in this forum) would upgrade. We aren't talking about the people that don't see this forum, hence my statement; being that we here are educated enough to know if a phone is filled with bloatware, we can make the educated and informed decision to use a ROM that has been provided to us by a dev that eliminates these issues.

The VAST majority of Android phone users do NOT root their phones and flash new ROMs/kernels. For that matter, the VAST majority of Android phone users never see this forum.



You mean the preliminary evidence straight from the horse's mouth (HTC)? Directly from HTC's official Twitter account:

"...due to Sense's hardware requirements, only our newest devices (Flyer, EVO 3D, Sensation) will be able to support it"

Based on the size of the install (which I hear is approaching 600 megs), it could very well be that other HTC devices don't have the onboard ROM capacity to install it. To my knowledge, they didn't specifically say what those hardware limitations were.

 

[bvbull200]

And here goes the part of the post that is relevant to the thread:

The recent banter is certainly on-topic (aside from the HD-DVD "analogy", that HAD to be addressed ). The problem that the Evo 3D is going to have, is that there will be so much focus on the 3D aspect, that the performance of that single feature will be over-valued. If you've met anyone that says they wouldn't get an Evo 4G solely because they don't have 4G coverage, you could see how absurd that is. Personally, so long as they deserve it, I want HTC to be very successful with this phone as it encourages more goodies down the line. It will be a damn shame if it flops because people are worried that the camera won't fit the 3D standard 2 years from now. It's crazy to think that someone might say, "I would have bought that phone, but I'm not sure about that optional camera function...."

 

[EarlyMon]

It will be a damn shame if it flops because people are worried that the camera won't fit the 3D standard 2 years from now. It's crazy to think that someone might say, "I would have bought that phone, but I'm not sure about that optional camera function...."

Srsly?

I don't see that as crazy - I see that as good consumerism: be informed before you purchase.

Honestly, I have the strong opinion that had people thought like that at the beginning of last year, we'd have complete 3D video standards, no wiggle room, and the terrible evil that is the active shuttered 3D glasses might have never occurred.

I do get your point - had people heard a rumor last June that Sprint might go with some other 4G standard in the future, maybe the Evo 4G would've suffered in sales.

But I think this case is different.

I think I and novox77 (and others) have shown that maybe the concern of future-proofing on this device isn't so great a problem (maybe even more so in the Evo 3D forum, not sure) - but - this is tech.

The new rule in tech is, hit the market hot, change things up, hit them with the upgrades later.

So - by any of us giving these assurances that the E3D vids and cameras will work, and that the standards problem isn't great (it does exist tho) - we're really doing HTC's job for free.

Maybe in a perfect world, they'd step up to the plate and just explain it to people, beginning like already (!!), because pre-launch is the time to do just that.

So - if people do say, "I would have bought that phone, but I'm not sure about that optional camera function...." and the Evo 3D tanks - that won't be the fault of posters on the interwebs, even tho it will sure look like it.

That will be HTC's fault for not following thru at this point in the marketing phase.

In my opinion.

 

[JunBringer]

Like I said before I'd like to see it marketed as the next Evo with all of the cool new Sense stuff shown off and also add the 3D as icing on the cake. I know a lot of people who don't like 3D, including myself, that might not get it cause they think it's all about the 3D, when that's actually a very small part of the phone.

 

[bvbull200]

I'm not blaming the posters on the site, by any means, but consumers, in general, are a bunch of dumb oafs. Here is the point I have been trying to get at this whole time:

Let's assume that the 3D implementation on the Evo 3D is about as poor as it could possibly be. What does that really cripple other than that specific gimmick? If it were a turd phone that had nothing going for it beyond a 3D camera, I could see how that would be a huge issue, but it looks like the Evo 3D will have a host of other things to offer.

 

[bvbull200]

Like I said before I'd like to see it marketed as the next Evo with all of the cool new Sense stuff shown off and also add the 3D as icing on the cake. I know a lot of people who don't like 3D, including myself, that might not get it cause they think it's all about the 3D, when that's actually a very small part of the phone.

Bingo.

 

[EarlyMon]

Others are bringing out 2-cores, others are bringing out 3D, but the Evo 3D is bringing a lot to the table with a higher-speed dual-core, glasses-free 3D, Sense 3, HTC OnLive gaming, MHL port with full HDMI mirroring, HTC Watch for movie streaming...

So - in marketing terms for the Evo 3D - we are living in interesting times.

BTW - HTC - Products - HTC EVO 3D ? Overview

 

[EarlyMon]

Let's assume that the 3D implementation on the Evo 3D is about as poor as it could possibly be. What does that really cripple other than that specific gimmick?

It would cripple credibility and credibility is mega-important.

We own Evos, we like HTC. But, we're not everyone.

I expect a lot of 3D HDTV owners new to Android and new to HTC to notice this device - if they were to somehow blow the 3D, they'll blow a lot more than a gimmick.

 

[lordofthereef]

It would cripple credibility and credibility is mega-important.

We own Evos, we like HTC. But, we're not everyone.

I expect a lot of 3D HDTV owners new to Android and new to HTC to notice this device - if they were to somehow blow the 3D, they'll blow a lot more than a gimmick.

IDK how badly it would cripple credibility. Look at the hero. I hear and read more complaints about that thing than many phones, yet it hasn't seemed to hurt HTC's name (sales-wise anyway).

 

[JunBringer]

quick n00b question: The dual-core processors that are being put in phones now, like the one in the 3D, do they do 1.2ghz on each core? So it's kind of like two processors? Please pardon my ignorance.

 

[lordofthereef]

quick n00b question: The dual-core processors that are being put in phones now, like the one in the 3D, do they do 1.2ghz on each core? So it's kind of like two processors? Please pardon my ignorance.

Yes, 1.2ghz each core. Any time you have a multi core processor, each core is clocked at that speed. Let's say you had a 2ghz quad core. You would have 4 cored running at 2ghz a pop. Make sense?

 

[EarlyMon]

In the 8660 in the Evo 3D, they clock asynchronously - so each core can run at independent speeds up to 1.2 GHz each.

Very big deal where power consumption is concerned - if one core can still run slow while the other needs to run fast, it's way better.

 

[JunBringer]

Yes, 1.2ghz each core. Any time you have a multi core processor, each core is clocked at that speed. Let's say you had a 2ghz quad core. You would have 4 cored running at 2ghz a pop. Make sense?

Perfect sense. Thanks a lot!

 

[EarlyMon]

Wait - let's be clear on the speed thing.

What LOTR said is true of desktop CPUs.

It's not true of mobile SoC (system on (a) chip) processors. These beasties are way cooler than the old Intel DuoCore approach - they don't run at a constant speed like the desktop CPUs. (Your Evo doesn't run at 1 GHz all of the time, btw.)

Speed scales automagically based on the load - and in the Evo 3D's case, each processor scales independently - not true of all mobile dual-core SoCs out there today, afair.