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Underlying tech in the Evo 3D - qHD, 3D, dual-core SMP

Yeah I really was talking about free as in whats free for the user to deploy for apps and the OS and such. Or really whats left after the bare min thats req for the hardware and reserved for it. That is all I was talking about. Again I know and understand that what we are discussing is really a mute point and I mearly was just speaking in theory b/c the more I thought about it the more I questioned. What would happen if a manufacturer was making their phone with beast hardware specs and upped the Memory but after seeing costs rise they cut the memory back to just slightly over the bare min req to handle the onboard hardware(GPU). Leaving the user with a slug phone or wanting/needing more memory to really be able to push the device. I was specifically speaking of hardware reserved memory nothing software at all as that can vary greatly i know.
To be honest since this discussion is kinda off topic some and all in theory I wouldn't be hurt if it just ended b/c my whole approach behined it is not in reality as I can't see a manufacturer doing what I'm suggesting really.
 
No - I'm with you.

Anything to put the discussion in the open so people think about these issues is best.

I love HTC, but we're consumers and the phone makers are all suppliers and if history's taught me anything, it's to never trust or assume anything where somebody getting my hard-earned dough is concerned.

Maybe we're defining terms differently, maybe we look at parts of the problem differently - but you're right, it comes down to this:

How do we know if we're really being sold the resources to do the job?

Example - why did the Evo, with more hardware features have less ram than the Desire?

Why does the Sensation, lacking the 3D feature, have so much less ram that the 3vo?
 
It probably comes down to logistics somewhere in the corporate decision making process. For instance, they might have been able to include more RAM but they couldn't have held the $199/$499 price point.

I often wonder things like this. If they can do something I wonder why they don't do it? Is it just to release a better upgraded version later? I feel like Apple does this most of the time. Or is there really a logical reason?

I was thinking about the Evo3D last night and wondering why it doesn't have double 8MP camera's instead of 5mp. I assume it's a space issue, but I'm not sure. I'm not that knowledgeable about this stuff, yet. ;)
 
ArmageddonX said:
It probably comes down to logistics somewhere in the corporate decision making process. For instance, they might have been able to include more RAM but they couldn't have held the $199/$499 price point.

I often wonder things like this. If they can do something I wonder why they don't do it? Is it just to release a better upgraded version later? I feel like Apple does this most of the time. Or is there really a logical reason?

I was thinking about the Evo3D last night and wondering why it doesn't have double 8MP camera's instead of 5mp. I assume it's a space issue, but I'm not sure. I'm not that knowledgeable about this stuff, yet. ;)
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It's probably a cost issue, but part of me is hoping that it's because they wanted to stick higher quality 5MP sensors in the Evo instead of the lower-sensitivity 8 MP sensors. (iPhone 4's 5MP is essentially the best camera sensor in the market now for non-cameraphones)
 
Sgt. Slaughter said:
Yeah I really was talking about free as in whats free for the user to deploy for apps and the OS and such. Or really whats left after the bare min thats req for the hardware and reserved for it. That is all I was talking about. Again I know and understand that what we are discussing is really a mute point and I mearly was just speaking in theory b/c the more I thought about it the more I questioned. What would happen if a manufacturer was making their phone with beast hardware specs and upped the Memory but after seeing costs rise they cut the memory back to just slightly over the bare min req to handle the onboard hardware(GPU). Leaving the user with a slug phone or wanting/needing more memory to really be able to push the device. I was specifically speaking of hardware reserved memory nothing software at all as that can vary greatly i know.
To be honest since this discussion is kinda off topic some and all in theory I wouldn't be hurt if it just ended b/c my whole approach behined it is not in reality as I can't see a manufacturer doing what I'm suggesting really.
Click to expand...

1. The memory advertised is marketing. It's a spec for the end user to compare. The Atrix has 1GB of RAM as well but a portion of it is locked for use of the desktop mode you see when you dock it with the laptop. Same issue.

2. A manufacturer could do what you are saying; strip RAM leaving very little left for the user. Why wouldn't they? Free market capitalism. You make a slug phone no one is going to buy it.
 
ArmageddonX said:
It probably comes down to logistics somewhere in the corporate decision making process. For instance, they might have been able to include more RAM but they couldn't have held the $199/$499 price point.

I was thinking about the Evo3D last night and wondering why it doesn't have double 8MP camera's instead of 5mp. I assume it's a space issue, but I'm not sure. I'm not that knowledgeable about this stuff, yet. ;)
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It is most likely combination of price points, power consumed, size of the device and profits tradeoffs.

For example Sharp brought to the market in Japan 3D superphone with 8 meg cameras but with single core processor. So it can be 8vs6 and single core vs dual core.
HTC did right choice, it is more to the camera than megapixels but dual core is sooo much more powerful.

If anything dual 1080p recording would be finer (than 720p).
 
The Sensation does 1080p video recording, a number of early blogs agreed.

Worst thing that happens is "specs subject to change" and you have to change your post - but I'll betcha it does 1080p recording. We have conflicting info on whether that's at 24 or 30 fps, but this will sort out quickly.
 
wirkfi said:
It is most likely combination of price points, power consumed, size of the device and profits tradeoffs.

For example Sharp brought to the market in Japan 3D superphone with 8 meg cameras but with single core processor. So it can be 8vs6 and single core vs dual core.
HTC did right choice, it is more to the camera than megapixels but dual core is sooo much more powerful.

If anything dual 1080p recording would be finer (than 720p).
Click to expand...

I'm curious... do you know when did that Sharp (keitai Model #?) hit Japan? There used to be such a disparity between here and there in hw prowess, but it seems to be less and less the case, particularly as feature phones there must continually compete w/ smarter smartphones.
 
EarlyMon said:
The Sensation does 1080p video recording, a number of early blogs agreed.

Worst thing that happens is "specs subject to change" and you have to change your post - but I'll betcha it does 1080p recording. We have conflicting info on whether that's at 24 or 30 fps, but this will sort out quickly.
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At this point I'm fairly positive it won't do 1080p video at launch. In the youtube comments on the wirefly video the reviewer actually said he couldn't find the 1080 option. It's also not listed as 1080p on Sprint's website anymore.

It's a real shame if you ask me. The Sensation records really nice looking 1080p video. Looks like the different camera sensor is causing an issue.
 
Does the 3d technology reduce saturation or brightness when in 2d mode ?

RedWingsFan said:
If the screen is anything like the EVO 4G, there won't be any problems using it outdoors. The brightness will auto adjust. I use my EVO 4G outside all of the time without a problem. Even with polarized glasses on I can see it no problem.
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With a small lens and small sensor, I'd be happy with good 480p, personally. (And I'm srsly ok with that - the Evo's 720p recordings are doggy on mine.)

Be it the sensor or whatever else, if a feature isn't acceptable and ready for prime time, I'd rather they leave it off. IMO - better to leave it off than have prospective customers thinking they're getting something, only to find it unusable.

If the 720p recordings are good, not jerky or frame rate limited by an over-sensitivity to perfect lighting conditions, then I'd be happy with the upgrade to a good HD, wide-screen recording capability.

But for those who demand 1080p recordings, then dropping the feature if it's not 100% ok is at least honest (something we could use more of with smartphones) and this will alert those users to assess other choices.
 
you2 said:
Does the 3d technology reduce saturation or brightness when in 2d mode ?
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Possible on brightness, but doubtful it would be noticeable. The parallax barrier is not fixed, it's an extra substrate of glass with LCDs that polarize to create the barrier - no reason that shouldn't be super-thin and completely transparent when not in use.

One of the 6 minute vids we have floating around here is showing remarkable clarity and color under 2D use while demoing Sense 3.
 
hakujin said:
Personally, I prefer 720p over 1080p when it comes to pocket recording. The space savings on my HDD > perceived visual difference at 10+ft viewing.
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That's a great point. Especially if we're talking anything out of direct sunlight. Plus, I don't often display my phone videos on anything other than my phone (rarely my computer screen).
 
That wirefly video also showed us that the 3D images are stored as MPO files. I did some googling and found an MPO Toolbox that can convert the MPO images into Anaglyph. Then I went on Amazon and bought some red/cyan glasses like these and now I will be able to view my 3D images from the 3vo on any 2D screen.

P.S. I did download a sample MPO picture and tested the toolbox first. Worked great.
 
you2 said:
Does the 3d technology reduce saturation or brightness when in 2d mode ?
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I've got a Nintendo 3DS -- the panel they use for the 3D screen isn't all that impressive -- terrible viewing angles and mediocre quality otherwise. However, I can say that at least between 2D and 3D modes on the same screen, I don't remember noticing a big difference in terms of the brightness or image quality otherwise when switching between modes. I'll check again later.
 
Jensen said:
I think you guys are downplaying 1080p.
This: (youtube above)

is not as good as this: (2nd youtube above)

You don't have to make excuses for the 3vo.
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Not sure who you're addressing that to - if in part me, I'm not making excuses for anything.

The increased file size and my general mistrust of amplifying sensor noise just makes 1080p not matter to me, personally.

My post was specific and clear, I'd thought - if that feature is important to you, then it's better they remove it if it's doggy so you can assess your phone choices properly.

Not sure how warning that this might not be the phone for everyone is somehow downplaying or making excuses - ditto that for those who look at the recording feature as I do.

For some people, camera performance in a phone is mega-important. Not for me. I care 100x more about GPS performance. If crystal-clear 1080p recording is important to someone, this may not be the right phone for them, maybe the upcoming (for the US market) SGS2 or Photon or the Sensation on T-Mo is the better choice (just grabbing examples).

We're all different people in our uses of things.
 
EarlyMon said:
Not sure who you're addressing that to - if in part me, I'm not making excuses for anything.

The increased file size and my general mistrust of amplifying sensor noise just makes 1080p not matter to me, personally.

My post was specific and clear, I'd thought - if that feature is important to you, then it's better they remove it if it's doggy so you can assess your phone choices properly.

Not sure how warning that this might not be the phone for everyone is somehow downplaying or making excuses - ditto that for those who look at the recording feature as I do.

For some people, camera performance in a phone is mega-important. Not for me. I care 100x more about GPS performance. If crystal-clear 1080p recording is important to someone, this may not be the right phone for them, maybe the upcoming SGS2 or Photon or the Sensation on T-Mo is better (just grabbing examples).

We're all different people in our uses of things.
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But the difference is that people that don't care about the increased resolution and thus file size have the option of lowering the quality. Those of us who do care now cannot raise the quality.

It's inherently worse.

I'm glad that you don't care about video resolution. I'm just voicing the other side of the argument to balance out the last couple posts of people that agree with you. :)
 
Jensen said:
I think you guys are downplaying 1080p.
This:

(video1)

is not as good as this:

(video 2)
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You want to provide some context there? I see two youtube videos; the first is a review of the Evo 3D. The second looks like a random video shoot. What exactly am I comparing? The youtube videos only go up to 720p, so how could this possibly represent a 1080p resolution comparison? Or are we comparing something else? Clarification please?
 
Jensen said:
But the difference is that people that don't care about the increased resolution and thus file size have the option of lowering the quality. Those of us who do care now cannot raise the quality.

It's inherently worse.

I'm glad that you don't care about video resolution. I'm just voicing the other side of the argument to balance out the last couple posts of people that agree with you. :)
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Well, I'll honestly apologize for my writing skills, srsly, no sarcasm.

My attempt was to show both sides of the issue by best examples, someone like me, and someone like you needing to assess this carefully.

(I mean, I used words like doggy and everything.)

My only real point was I'd rather they just drop claiming they have 1080p if they can't do it right - the feature is important to some or many, best to not be misleading.

Sure, it would be great if they have the feature and get it right - that makes it better for everyone.
 
Just speculating - it would seem to me that you can't have decent 1080p without a better/faster SD card. I wonder if this is a US/Sprint move to control costs and they're just including their standard 8 GB SD card?

The HTC web pages, both international and US/Sprint - are stunning in their uncharacteristic lack of specs for this particular phone. Hopefully, it's because it's coming soon and not a sign of things to come.

The Wirefly guy said he couldn't find the feature - not sure if that means it's not there, or he couldn't find it.
 
Actually I think class 4 cards are fast enough for 1080p much less class 6 or class 10. I'm not sure how much data the phone can actually move across the bus and the resolution does not actually define the bit rate; but a modest 1080p video can be had with 4 or 5mb/s. Obviously things can go up from there (and I suppose down). I think blue ray encodings are around 23mb/s. To be honest on a screen the size of a phone (esp if you do not still stop to examine each frame in detail) 2mb/s is probably more than adequate.

Anyways a class 4 card is 4MB/s (or 32mb/s). In practice I'm not sure you can actually get 32mb/s but since 4mb/s is plenty good....
-
A lot of folks mention the sdhc as being the bottleneck but i just don't see it. Maybe I'm missing something obvious or maybe it is the internal bus on the phone.
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Btw the bit rate impact the quality (details) found in the frames; but the encoding sets the resolution. One reason to use a low bit rate with a high resolution is so that the hardware spends less cyle on scaling.

EarlyMon said:
Just speculating - it would seem to me that you can't have decent 1080p without a better/faster SD card. I wonder if this is a US/Sprint move to control costs and they're just including their standard 8 GB SD card?

The HTC web pages, both international and US/Sprint - are stunning in their uncharacteristic lack of specs for this particular phone. Hopefully, it's because it's coming soon and not a sign of things to come.

The Wirefly guy said he couldn't find the feature - not sure if that means it's not there, or he couldn't find it.
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