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(moved posts) Is it ok to put out wireless tether info?

So i'm there reading the news for the day, and slam, verizon is cracking down on illegal tethering. This has came along ways. Some beg ta differ but, what are the chances of other companies taking part on what seems to be a entrapment on those of us that enjoy our phones this way? Is this the end of fun or the beginnings of a new cyber revolution?

Bandwidth is limited and therefore, costly. Because it is limited, it will become more valuable as we move forward and more people are sucking up as much bandwidth as they can get.

Tethering is not necessarily illegal, but in many cases, it is a violation of TOS you agreed to.

The phone company can either fight to eliminate it through some technological legerdemain or simply start capping and increasing costs for us all.

Not sure where you get the idea that it is entrapment. In most cases, your contract is quite clear.
 
So i'm there reading the news for the day, and slam, verizon is cracking down on illegal tethering. This has came along ways. Some beg ta differ but, what are the chances of other companies taking part on what seems to be a entrapment on those of us that enjoy our phones this way? Is this the end of fun or the beginnings of a new cyber revolution?

I believe that ATT was the first to crack down on people gathering out of contract. I don't care if you tether for free or not. Just don't cry when they bust you for it. Remember big red has a team of lawyers on their side. Your defense of it isn't legal will just make them laugh.

I remember with the whole napster stuff people said they wasn't breaking the law asbthere was nothing in the law of making a digital copy of a song. How many people has paid damages to the record labels as of today.

Just because you think it isn't illegal doesn't mean your right. That's just your opinion and nothing more.

Worst that will come of it is if they bust you they will just terminate your service and pay the early termination fee.

Do what you will as it don't bother me one way or the other. I have said my views in previous posts. All you are doing is beating the dead horse. As you will have both sides arguing over something stupid. I will say it shows they are going to crack down on rooted phones in the future.
 
Bandwidth is limited and therefore, costly. Because it is limited, it will become more valuable as we move forward and more people are sucking up as much bandwidth as they can get.

Tethering is not necessarily illegal, but in many cases, it is a violation of TOS you agreed to.

The phone company can either fight to eliminate it through some technological legerdemain or simply start capping and increasing costs for us all.

Not sure where you get the idea that it is entrapment. In most cases, your contract is quite clear.

From all I've read, bandwidth really isn't quite the issue they make it out to be. It's bandwidth per tower. Meaning if they put up more towers, they have plenty of bandwidth to spare. I remember when cel service was far more expensive than it is now. They said it would only go higher then too. Competition forced prices down. Which is the real tragedy of the T Mo merger.
 
I believe that ATT was the first to crack down on people gathering out of contract. I don't care if you tether for free or not. Just don't cry when they bust you for it. Remember big red has a team of lawyers on their side. Your defense of it isn't legal will just make them laugh.

I remember with the whole napster stuff people said they wasn't breaking the law asbthere was nothing in the law of making a digital copy of a song. How many people has paid damages to the record labels as of today.

Just because you think it isn't illegal doesn't mean your right. That's just your opinion and nothing more.

Worst that will come of it is if they bust you they will just terminate your service and pay the early termination fee.

Do what you will as it don't bother me one way or the other. I have said my views in previous posts. All you are doing is beating the dead horse. As you will have both sides arguing over something stupid. I will say it shows they are going to crack down on rooted phones in the future.

Lol google is proof that going after napster was just delaying the inevitable. They have the lawyers to counter the recording industries greed. They've also addressed microsoft and apples monopolies. Google will eventualy tire of antics from big red and the blue deathstar, and either acquire someone like sprint, or roll out their own tech.
 
I am guessing once Verizon switches to the tiered data plans, it will complicate this discussion and peoples decisions even more regarding free wireless tether.
 
I have a question? I have at home a Verizon wireless network extender.
It is hooked up to my Time Warner Cable modem. Now I am paying TWC for the Data and I had purchased the network extender. If I tether in my own home through my equipment and my internet connection why does Verizon charge for tethering in that setup!! I also observed that they do log my data usage as their "own" reflected in the Verizon data usage app on my DX , I also made my own logs of data usage of the network extender at home and noted that 85% of my data usage was via the network extender.
I'm thinking about contacting the PSC and contacting Legal counsel in starting a class action Lawsuit! If they want to charge for tethering I want to be paid for them stealing my TWC data since they claim it as their OWN in the records!
 
I am guessing once Verizon switches to the tiered data plans, it will complicate this discussion and peoples decisions even more regarding free wireless tether.

I believe that doing away with unlimited data simplifies the discussion about free tethering.

While I am strongly in favor of free tethering, I could make a very good argument against it on an unlimited data plan. Wireless bandwidth is still an expensive and scarce resource. Some people who tether use excessive amounts of bandwidth, which can be argued to be unfair on a plan that was intended for unlimited mobile phone use.


When the network charges by the amount I use, it suddenly becomes none of the carrier's business how I use my 2 GB of data.

Suppose water in an area is scarce. In a desert climate for example. People still treat water like it is unlimited and free. Once you have to pay by the gallon, you start to conserve. If you're not using an excessive amount of water, then how you use it is none of your neighbor's, and none of the city's business. (And you're not hurting anyone else.)


When I tether, I have never come close to using 2 GB. I just use it occasionally. Even if I used more than my 2 GB plan, they are happy to charge me $10 per extra GB I use. So if (on AT&T) I use 4 GB, then I'm paying exactly what they would charge me for tethering. So why bother? If I don't use 2 GB in a month then I should be able to pay the lower 2 GB data plan. Whether I tether to my laptop shouldn't matter.

If Mr. Data Hog uses 40 GB of data, then he should pay for it. And if he pays for it, what does it matter how he used it. After all, maybe he has an app on his phone that used that much. (Tethering is done by an app - an actual APK file - that happens to use data.)
 
I believe that doing away with unlimited data simplifies the discussion about free tethering.

Are you saying leaving out those two words in this discussion or do you mean the carriers should eliminate their Unlimited Data plans?
 
Are you saying leaving out those two words in this discussion or do you mean the carriers should eliminate their Unlimited Data plans?

What I meant was that when a carrier does not offer unlimited data, it seems like they have just weakened any argument they could make to charge you extra to use your limited data for tethering.

If you have a limit (eg, you pay by the gallon), then why do they care what you do with it? (Other than because they feel entitled to more of your money.)

Hope that clarifies.
 
What I meant was that when a carrier does not offer unlimited data, it seems like they have just weakened any argument they could make to charge you extra to use your limited data for tethering.

If you have a limit (eg, you pay by the gallon), then why do they care what you do with it? (Other than because they feel entitled to more of your money.)

Hope that clarifies.

Yes indeed.
 
I would probably just NOT tether, but that's me.... I have too many things to play with as is, so tether isn't on my plate.
 
The only time I ever would use tether would be for an emergency or say in Vegas where all the damn expensive hotels charge an extra internet fee. (the hell with that). I haven't tried this updated tether app, but hopefully it works for me as I will be in Vegas this time next week. Even then, I only use it for a few minutes checking out shows and misc things to do on a nightly basis there, but it's still handy to have for 5 or 10 minutes. Verizon should have a small limit on tethering - say 30 minutes free per monthly bill. If you need more than that you then pay for it. $10 a month would be a reasonably fair fee IMHO if you use tether much.
 
I also only tether in am emergency, as I have a company-issued aircard. But, there have been times I have forgotten it and needed to get online. I'm going to stick with the Bluetooth tethering because I confirmed it still works with no hassle under GB.
 
I'm not arguing that anyone should use tethering as a replacement ISP. If you don't want to tether much, or only for emergency, that's great.

In my case, I want to tether, on occasion, without using a lot of bandwidth, when I am in a situation where I have time to kill and have bars on my phone. For my particular use case, you can see why I am against paying a separate tethering charge. As it is, knowing how to use my development tools, :-), I am more than capable of taking care of my own needs, without rooting, and without installing any of the popular tethering apps that can be found elsewhere. I'm advocating that since I have never ever even come close to using up my 2 GB monthly plan, it shouldn't be necessary to be so sneaky about it on occasion.
 
I think I can safely say, and most will agree with me, that everyone keeps saying tethering is illegal. Well tethering is not illegal. Tethering without paying for it is in violation of your tos. The subject of tethering becoming taboo for most on this site is not without merit.

Every topic on this subject always seems to get out of hand. While I will agree that we as customers of VZW, not me personally, will not get what we want because, as it has been said before, VZW is just another big company that gets to make up the rules as they see fit.

You have to admit VZW charges way too much for tethering. I have a few friends that use VZW's wireless modem to connect to the net while they are out on the road. I can't remember the exact cost but it's somewhere around 20 cents a kb for their overage charges.

Combine that with the usual 20 bucks a month for the plan itself and it gets expensive. Too expensive if you ask me. Data should not cost that much. I think THIS is the biggest gripe people have with VZW and tethering. Now some will try to defend VZW by saying they have all these huge overhead costs to make up for as being the reason they charge so much.

I will not agree with this because we know every company is in business to make money, not lose money. If they were truly losing money they wouldn't be giving you 500 dollar phones for 200 bucks or sometimes free. They would be charging you 500 plus for the phone so they could make a profit off it. After all, if they are losing money than all the profit they can make would help right?

If VZW would stop looking out for themselves and start working with their customers I don't think this would even be an issue. Personally I think some kind of legislation needs to be drawn up to cap these out of control data charges companies are allowed to make up at will.

I know I'm probably just rambling here but this is how I fell about this subject. I have said in the past that I would tether if I wanted to and screw those that don't like me for it but Metfanant changed my mind. What he said about hurting everyone is something I just cannot do. I would not feel right knowing my actions have cause EVERYONE to suffer.

So if you have not read Metfanants comment, read it. And think about the people you would be hurting if you choose to violate your tos by tehtering without paying for it.
 
Personally I think some kind of legislation needs to be drawn up to cap these out of control data charges companies are allowed to make up at will.

I'm on AT&T myself. But the tethering issue is still relevant. I agree that there have to be limits on corporate behavior just as on individual behavior.



I have said in the past that I would tether if I wanted to and screw those that don't like me for it but Metfanant changed my mind. What he said about hurting everyone is something I just cannot do. I would not feel right knowing my actions have cause EVERYONE to suffer.

So if you have not read Metfanants comment, read it. And think about the people you would be hurting if you choose to violate your tos by tehtering without paying for it.

You got my interest. I would be very interested to know if or how I'm hurting someone.

I did some searching in this thread for the user name, and found some messages. (I'm assuming you mean in this thread.) I was unable to find a message that I thought you might mean.

Could you kindly identify the message? I would be interested to read it, if I haven't already.

Thank you.
 
Oh god. You,re gonne make me try and find his post on that? Its been awhile since he posted that and I can't remember which thread he posted it in......ill look for it though.


EDIT: I can't find it but if he sees this I'm sure he might dig it up for you. But he basiclly talks about, well, how a few bad apples can spoil the whole bunch. If the few that keep using so much data to tether they are gonna screw it up for everyone. And VZW isn't going to take things away from just the few, they wont raise prices on just the few. They will do it across the board and even those that didn't abuse the system will suffer.

To put it another way, do YOU want to get stuck paying an extra 15 bucks a month because I wouldn't stop using tethering and sucking up 30 gigs of data a month and didn't pay for it?
 
Please don't go to a lot of trouble to find it. I was then going to suggest you summarize it, but you did.


To put it another way, do YOU want to get stuck paying an extra 15 bucks a month because I wouldn't stop using tethering and sucking up 30 gigs of data a month and didn't pay for it?


You're right!

That's exactly why I am an advocate of not charging for tethering when you have a LIMITED data plan.

Mobile data is a scarce and expensive resource (but getting cheaper). It is not a replacement for your ISP.

If Mr. Data Hog wants to use 30 GB per month, then he should pay for that privilege.

If I have a 2 GB plan, and never come close to using 2 GB, even when I use my tethered notebook, then I'm not hurting anyone. So why have a fee for tethering?

If I am using the data I pay for, or even less, then why should it matter how?

In short, I agree with you that it is bad for people to use extraordinary amounts of data when it is a scarce resource. I might also agree with Metfanant, but can't say since I haven't seen his post.



Edit: to add to my 'Tasting' analogy. If I am not using an extraordinary amount of water, then why should it matter that I use some for drinking and cooking? Why would the additional 'Tasting' plan fee be necessary to allow use of water I paid for, for cooking and drinking?
 
Edit: to add to my 'Tasting' analogy. If I am not using an extraordinary amount of water, then why should it matter that I use some for drinking and cooking? Why would the additional 'Tasting' plan fee be necessary to allow use of water I paid for, for cooking and drinking?

The simple answer to that question? Because VZW isn't going to make that distinction. Its easier for them to nail down the whole system then it is to monitor the select few.
 
The simple answer to that question? Because VZW isn't going to make that distinction. Its easier for them to nail down the whole system then it is to monitor the select few.

The even simpler answer is that it is not only easy, as you say, but they have a financial incentive to charge you a second time to use the limited data plan you have already paid for.
 
The even simpler answer is that it is not only easy, as you say, but they have a financial incentive to charge you a second time to use the limited data plan you have already paid for.

There are very few truly unlimited plans as far as I can tell. All plans seem to have a cap at some level. Call it misleading advertising, or something else if you wish, but most of us do not have a truly unlimited data plan.

I sometimes wonder if some phone company specifically told their customers that they actually do not have truly unlimited data and they will be charged half a buck per megabyte if they go past a certain point, would people would go to another company that says they do offer unlimited data? Even though, in the the boilerplate, a cap is mentioned, and therefore, they really do not offer such plans, either.

My cap is 7.5GB, but there are no additional costs if I use more than that; my speed is (or could be) capped, however. I think AT&T charges you a whopping .45 cents per megabyte of additional data. At least with my plan, I know no matter what I do, I'll pay only 55 dollars a month.

If I downloaded a hundred songs per month, watched a movie every night, surfed for hours per day, hourly updates of Twitter and Face Book and uploaded hundreds of photos and videos, I am sure my data cap would be exceeded.

As always, corrections are welcome; I have not read every carrier's contract. I would guess some phone company indeed gives you truly unlimited data, with zero caps. I think T-Mobile does, but I am not a T-Mobile customer. And as far as I can tell, AT&T allows tethering, but they charge about half a dollar per megabyte of data if you exceed their limits.

My carrier (Criket) does not allow tethering, so if I need to tether my iPad or laptop, I'll simply pay forty dollars or so for a month of 4G/3G service and use a mobile hot spot. I find with my iPad, I have less need for a fully featured Android phone and I am thinking of cutting my bill in half by eliminating my need for an Android phone altogether. My iPad is always handy and it is easier on my eyes.

The "unlimited" plans you pay X dollars per month for generally applies to your phone, not some external device or purpose, like tethering to your PC. In many/most cases, tethering is specifically discussed in the contract. For most of us, it is specifically not allowed. Also, the word "unlimited" is often contains an asterisk and it is discussed in your contract. And unlimited actually does not mean unlimited.

So when people start to complain about this issue, they apparently do not read their contracts, and they start to justify their actions. It really does not matter if you only use tethering occasionally, or if you only use your unlimited plan (on your phone) occasionally and tethering to make up the difference.

The simple fact is, you agreed to abide by the rules and if you did not read the contract you signed, you should stop complaining. Rather, people should, not you specifically, DannyB. Smiley!

If you are capped at some point, you will know why. If tethering becomes a big deal, our phones will be locked down to such a point, we will all suffer, if we root and such. Or our rates will increase and some of us will be faced with huge phone bills.

Bob
 
Beaten to death on both sides, so lets try to think of some different solutions plz :)

I would assume almost everyone uses tethering just when needed, not as ISP replacement. Now for anyone that wishes to use tethering for a few mins a day or at most 1-2 hrs per month $20 is just ridiculous. The way to satisfy both Verizon and people tethering would be a chuck of tethering included with a data plan, say half a gig to a gig.

If this solution was applied i think this board would be become 95% nice again ;)

I do think some people are looking to use their "unlimited" plans as ISP replacements. They are trying to justify their decisions based on that unfortunate word, "unlimited."

And some people I suspect are looking for a way to eliminate the ISP charges by letting the phone company provide their Internet services for "free." They think as long as they are paying for unlimited data, they can tether their PC/Laptop and it should be considered part of the plan they pay for. Forgetting for a moment that their contract applies to using their phone for accessing data on their phone and not tethering to other devices.

The phone company knows just how much people use their phones and they introduce great new phones with video capabilities, for streaming music, for watching TV and movies, and other uses and they know full well these activities suck up bandwidth.

These companies do not want to tell us that we will be charged for data that exceeds their definition of unlimited; they simply redefine what unlimited means.

All I know is when it becomes a problem for them, we will pay for it, one way or another.
 
I think I can safely say, and most will agree with me, that everyone keeps saying tethering is illegal. Well tethering is not illegal. Tethering without paying for it is in violation of your tos. The subject of tethering becoming taboo for most on this site is not without merit.

(Snip a Tad)

I know I'm probably just rambling here but this is how I fell about this subject. I have said in the past that I would tether if I wanted to and screw those that don't like me for it but Metfanant changed my mind. What he said about hurting everyone is something I just cannot do. I would not feel right knowing my actions have cause EVERYONE to suffer.

The word "illegal" is tricky. We could argue that it is theft of bandwidth or other services or we could argue that it is strictly a contract law issue. I think we should agree that neither one of us is a legal expert in contract law, so forget the word illegal because it might not apply to tethering. Or it might indeed apply.

One might argue that the 5GB you pay for applies to phone only use and if you start tethering, you are "stealing" bandwidth. Or not.

If someone hotlinks to some image on your web site it drives your costs up because it consumes your bandwidth without any benefits to you or your site. I recall this is illegal because it is considered theft. Does the same thing apply in the situation we are discussing? Not sure it does, just sure that it might.

I suppose one thing the cell phone company can do is cancel your account if you become a problem. If you run a business, losing your phone number might prove problematical.

Bob
 
i personally use Wireless Tether but Barnacle is also very popular. can't really comment on data usage, as i only tether to my tablet when there is no wi-fi. my data has never been throttled, and i have not been charged any extra so far, but i imagine every day usage on multiple devices would throw up some red flags.

also, VZ has recently blocked Wireless Tether (among others) from appearing in the market. luckily, it is easy to get around their block; simply turn on airplane mode, then enable wi-fi, and you will be able to find any of them.

"red flags"?

Unlimited is unlimited.
 
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