(moved posts) Is it ok to put out wireless tether info?

[SolidOrange]

"red flags"?

Unlimited is unlimited.

not true.

From the Terms and Conditions Page:

Unlimited Smartphone Plans and Features:
These Wireless Email plans and features cannot be used: (1) for access to the Internet, intranets or other data networks except as the device’s native applications and capabilities permit, unless you subscribe to Mobile Broadband Connect; or (2) for any applications that tether your device to laptops or personal computers other than for use of the Wireless Sync, unless you subscribe to Mobile Broadband Connect.

From the description of the "unlimited plan"
Unlimited Email & Web for Smartphones (personal email)
Get unlimited access to the Internet and your personal email accounts.

Check and send personal emails when you’re out and about.

The Email and Web for Smartphone Features are designed for personal, consumer use and are not compatible with some Internet email service offerings. These features cannot be used to tether your device to laptops, personal computers or other devices for any purpose other than syncing of data; any other use is not permitted using these features. Service is only available in the National Enhanced Services and Extended National Enhanced Services Rate and Coverage Areas. See information on roaming in Canada and Mexico at www.verizonwireless.com/naroaming.

this is exactly why i am weary of streaming tons of data over tether. will they ever catch you; probably not. however, nothing is stopping them from dropping your contract and charging you an ETF if they do.

 

[Dark Jedi]

"red flags"?

Unlimited is unlimited.

Yet another who didnt read the TOS.

 

[McLabia]

I can hit 5gb no problem without tethering, I'm trying not too tho

lol. Same. I looked at my data usage last month and it was a little over 5.5 gigs used and Ive never tethered.

The whole "Well, you pay for unlimited data usage from your phone, but you cant really use unlimited data or youre in trouble" bullshit is seriously lame.

 

[DannyB]

I do think some people are looking to use their "unlimited" plans as ISP replacements. They are trying to justify their decisions based on that unfortunate word, "unlimited."

I think you are exactly right.

I think that is the real problem. As I said, mobile data is an expensive and scarce resource.

Unlimited was also something the mobile operators never should have said if they didn't mean it. So they are, and I think rightfully, trying to fix it. The real way to fix it is to charge by the amount of data used. That is why unlimited data is going away. The thing that should logically go with that change in pricing is to eliminate tethering charges.

Once you have pay by the gallon data usage, it no longer matters how you use it and tethering charges should go away.

The person using mobile as a replacement ISP won't like this new pay by the gallon pricing. That person is not me. I'm perfectly fine with with limited data plans.

As it is, I pay for 2 GB and typically don't use over 100 MB. Rarely I'll exceed 200 MB, but not very often. So nobody can argue that I'm the one hurting anyone. I'm not even coming close to using the 2 GB I'm paying for.

So when people start to complain about this issue, they apparently do not read their contracts, and they start to justify their actions. It really does not matter if you only use tethering occasionally, or if you only use your unlimited plan (on your phone) occasionally and tethering to make up the difference.

The simple fact is, you agreed to abide by the rules and if you did not read the contract you signed, you should stop complaining. Rather, people should, not you specifically, DannyB. Smiley!

I agreed to a similar adhesion contract many years ago when I signed up for cable Internet service. No routers allowed. And I did read those unconscionable terms.

We all know how that went. Cable and DSL providers said no routers. Everybody used routers. In particular, I wasn't causing any problems with extraordinary bandwidth usage.

Here we are today where everybody uses routers on their Cable/DSL, those routers cost $30 at your local office supply store, and Cable/DSL has given up trying to prevent people from using multiple computers via a router.

I think this tethering charge will end up going the same way.


It might matter to some people, but having to sign an unfair contract is not an argument that I personally find very convincing. I would again point out my water analogy. The water utility could come up with with an agreement with outrageous terms to charge you extra money for cooking and drinking. They could. And you would agree because you need water. So would you abide by the contract not to use water for cooking and drinking?

A logical argument about tethering could convince me. Pointing out the agreement is unconvincing. So far, I haven't heard any real logical argument how I'm hurting anybody.

And as I said, I very much do consider people using mobile as a replacement ISP to be the problem users, and the mobile operators are rightfully trying to correct the problem.



Thank you very much for your polite replies. I appreciate it. We may simply have to disagree about on the issue of fees for tethering on a limited data plan.



Edit: add this: as for being concerned about "getting caught", I used my development tools to create a custom solution that is used by exactly one user on the planet.

 

[Bob Maxey]

not true.




this is exactly why i am weary of streaming tons of data over tether. will they ever catch you; probably not. however, nothing is stopping them from dropping your contract and charging you an ETF if they do.

How interesting that the part you quoted mentions that business email is not unlimited, just personal mail.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I'm not a lawyer, but my work includes a lot of working with lawyers.

So - I'd first like to mention - isn't it true if you violate a contract that that's a civil matter?

If I'm right on that, then I'd like to call people back from the ledge of charging others with illegal activities - civil and criminal matters are different, are they not?

Any lawyers in the house, or decent students with a few law courses, or anyone else, want to comment on that idea?

I am not a lawyer, but you might be correct. Perhaps it is not a matter of being illegal, just a violation of your contract which is not a crime punishable by jail.

So calling tethering illegal is perhaps not accurate.

It is a violation and you can be punished for it, however. For example, your service is cancelled and you need your service because you run a business. Forget jail, it would kill many of us to loose our phone number and be forced to change it.

Perhaps the provider decides to charge you for your transgression. Can most here afford a grand or two to settle the past due amount and if they refuse to pay, will the resulting bad credit report make it difficult to establish service with another company?

All that said, perhaps theft of service laws do apply in this case. You are getting for free, something that is forbidden by the terms of your contract. Again, I am not a lawyer, but it seems somehow reasonable. Or perhaps it is nothing more than a contract issue.

All I know is I do not want to be the test case.

Some members have indicated that they do not come close to using their allotment, so they tether and still, they do not use everything they pay for. But it is still wrong if you read the contracts.

Perhaps the way to go is to simply tell customers how they connect is no longer an issue. You will pay for every Mb you use past the amount stated in your contract.

 

[gemini846]

I know when these threads started, everyone thougth that surely when we are paying for data by the GB this tether charge will go away, but it hasn't. VZW has updated thier "new plan" sites to include an extra $20 if you want tethering.

If this was truely about data usage, then why charge an extra $20 when people know their data will be monitered?

 

[seethesvt]

How does it cost verizon more money if I use more data? I don't tether. I don't even have a computer. But if I use 2gb, or 7gb, how does that affect verizons overhead? They don't have to do anything... its just internet access right... someone explain to me why they care so much. Are they just money hungry, as if the arm and leg I give them every month isn't enough for them to eat...

 

[DannyB]

How does it cost verizon more money if I use more data? . . . . if I use 2gb, or 7gb, how does that affect verizons overhead? They don't have to do anything... its just internet access right... someone explain to me why they care so much.

Unlike wired internet access, wired data is still a somewhat scarce resource. There is limited spectrum. The bandwidth to stream a video is a lot more than the bandwidth used for a voice call, or for texting (or email for that matter).

They have a limited amount of bandwidth for data, and everybody wants some.

You'll notice I don't give any specific numbers.

This is also a reason why more (not less) competition is important. Competition tends to force prices down to the lowest level where everyone still is profitable. Lack of it tends to allow prices to rise to the highest level possible.

People who tether tend to not be aware of how much bandwidth they are using. Using your phone to provide internet for a PC tends to use more bandwidth than just the phone would use. (Although I am becoming highly skeptical of this -- since I can browse to anywhere, and increasingly do, using my phone instead of a PC.)

 

[dautley]

Here's something to consider, if discussion of unauthorized tethering becomes banned here will discussion of any aftermarket ROM that has it built in also going to become banned? Are developers of such ROM's going to be banned?
A large portion of Android Forums is dedicated to rooting and aftermarket ROM's so at what point would the forum be shooting itself in the foot so to speak?

 

[Bob Maxey]

Here's something to consider, if discussion of unauthorized tethering becomes banned here will discussion of any aftermarket ROM that has it built in also going to become banned? Are developers of such ROM's going to be banned?
A large portion of Android Forums is dedicated to rooting and aftermarket ROM's so at what point would the forum be shooting itself in the foot so to speak?

No.

Unauthorized tethering is a often a TOS violation and against your contract if it is not allowed by your contract. A ROM with that feature can likely be used by people that can tether.

The new Triumph offers tethering as does their cool new cradle for the iPod. So a new ROM when available is something I might want to discuss. I think the Triumph is quite cool because of the large screen and tethering to my devices is a good selling point for me.

As I understand it, tethering is possible with some phones offered by carriers that either do not allow tethering or charges more for the service. The idea that it is available means nothing; the contract you sign is all that matters.

It would be like banning discussions about the best way to hunt humans on a list about hunting. Or perhaps how to modify a particular gun so it becomes a fully automatic weapon on a gun site about guns.

That said, we are guests here and if the mods do not want tethering discussions, it is their call.

Unlike wired internet access, wired data is still a somewhat scarce resource. There is limited spectrum. The bandwidth to stream a video is a lot more than the bandwidth used for a voice call, or for texting (or email for that matter).

They have a limited amount of bandwidth for data, and everybody wants some.

You'll notice I don't give any specific numbers.

This is also a reason why more (not less) competition is important. Competition tends to force prices down to the lowest level where everyone still is profitable. Lack of it tends to allow prices to rise to the highest level possible.

People who tether tend to not be aware of how much bandwidth they are using. Using your phone to provide internet for a PC tends to use more bandwidth than just the phone would use. (Although I am becoming highly skeptical of this -- since I can browse to anywhere, and increasingly do, using my phone instead of a PC.)

Seems to me, if you use tethering to connect with your PC, you might spend far more time than you think on the web. As you pointed out. When you run your phone tethered, you might surf for hours and tie up the network. Especially if thousands do it at the same time.

Corrections are welcome on this, but I recall something about sharing and the cell phone network. Most people do not surf for hours and hours at a time on their phone. Some make a call or DL their mail and disconnect; others upload a video or view a few YouTube productions and let it go.

So there is no break, and large blocks of bandwidth are used by a handful of people, hour after hour.

Then there are downloads like video, film, torrents, etc. All suck up the assets of the phone company that likely assumes a few things like the general habits of a typical customer before they set the prices.

I pay 55.00 per month, unlimited, if I define that tricky term as to mean under a set amount of bandwidth and the speed Cricket allows before they cap me. Last month, I used 400 or so Mb.

Bob