I've personally tested 4 different Vibrant's and all of them had gps's that performed the EXACT same way. I'm not buying the "only some phones" had the problem line from either Samsung or T-Mobile.
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All Things GPS
- Thread starter Robinelli
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- samsung vibrant
I've personally tested 4 different Vibrant's and all of them had gps's that performed the EXACT same way. I'm not buying the "only some phones" had the problem line from either Samsung or T-Mobile.
I'm definitely not trying to blame GPS Test for users GPS issues, just pointing out it appears to not be 100% reliable. I've seen posts where the 0 in use # seemed to be used to conclude the device is broken. The in use # must be invalid, which makes the SW suspect.
There's a built-in test on the Vibrant that may be a better tool for indicating GPS performance. If you dial *#*#1472365#*#* and select Get Position Test you'll see something like this:
Using this should eliminate any 3rd party test SW questions.
As you can see this morning my device is seeing 10 sats and using 9.
I also have a standalone GPS unit, which uses the well regarded SiRFstar III chipset. I compared the number of sats, the signal strength, and location accuracy side-by-side and my Vibrant was at least as good on all counts, if not slightly better.
The only thing I've done to my out-of-the box Vibrant is all the steps described in the XDA post linked below, and disable wi-fi when I want a GPS lock.
[FIX] Updated: GPS Tracking Issues (Optional FIX) - xda-developers
There are too many variables for me to come to firm conclusions, but there appear to be several issues. There are likely some SW bugs, there may be units with HW problems, there are probably some 3rd party test SW errors, and there are some user issues. It's a complicated stew. I think Samsung does need to step up and get it resolved, and hopefully they will soon. I really like this device and am optimistic a few tweaks will make it that much better.
Robinelli
Android Enthusiast
Ok, before when I did the XDA fix on this phone I only did the MS based portion. I just changed the server and port. I ran the GPS again and it now shows 10 satellites. Even though it is showing 10 satellites my accuracy has not improved. It still shows that I am in my neighbors house LOL.
Edited to add- I just went back into the settings to change it back to the supl settings... and it still had the original server and port?? Why didn't it save the settings? It is on MS based, but the server and port did not change. So I am also at a loss as to why 10 sats showed this time. I thought to save the server and port I just had to change it then turn off the phone, battery pull, restart. Am I missing something?
Edited to add- I just went back into the settings to change it back to the supl settings... and it still had the original server and port?? Why didn't it save the settings? It is on MS based, but the server and port did not change. So I am also at a loss as to why 10 sats showed this time. I thought to save the server and port I just had to change it then turn off the phone, battery pull, restart. Am I missing something?
Not sure why it wouldn't save the port.
I make the port # change, then use the back button to get to the previous menu screen, then home button, and power reset. Just checked and the port # is what I set it to. I've never pulled the battery.
Did you also do the Delete GPS Data step in those XDA instructions?
The mapped GPS location will vary from your actual location. That's a limitation of all GPS devices, and the amount of variance will change as the specific sats the device is using move around, plus a bunch of other variables. My dedicated GPS unit shows me both the specific calculated spot it thinks I'm at, and the arrow icon which snaps to the nearest road. It's location spot matches nearly exactly with my Vibrant, which does vary over time from right where I'm sitting to the front yard, to my neighbors place, but that's not unique to the Vibrant. All GPS devices do that due to the inherent errors in accuracy. Google "GPS accuracy" if you want to see more scientific explanations of the variables involved. I think the real question for each user is whether the device does what they need it to do, not whether it's calculating a spot 5, or 10, or 50 feet from where they are standing.
I make the port # change, then use the back button to get to the previous menu screen, then home button, and power reset. Just checked and the port # is what I set it to. I've never pulled the battery.
Did you also do the Delete GPS Data step in those XDA instructions?
The mapped GPS location will vary from your actual location. That's a limitation of all GPS devices, and the amount of variance will change as the specific sats the device is using move around, plus a bunch of other variables. My dedicated GPS unit shows me both the specific calculated spot it thinks I'm at, and the arrow icon which snaps to the nearest road. It's location spot matches nearly exactly with my Vibrant, which does vary over time from right where I'm sitting to the front yard, to my neighbors place, but that's not unique to the Vibrant. All GPS devices do that due to the inherent errors in accuracy. Google "GPS accuracy" if you want to see more scientific explanations of the variables involved. I think the real question for each user is whether the device does what they need it to do, not whether it's calculating a spot 5, or 10, or 50 feet from where they are standing.
Amen.
Robinelli
Android Enthusiast
My old phone would not lock at all. My new one only locked when I was driving but worked fine otherwise (so only an issue when sitting in a parking lot trying to find something nearest you). After changing the setting to MS based it now locks even when I am sitting still. I haven't tried it driving, but I assume it will not negatively affect anything. I haven't had any trouble (with the replacement) with it getting me where I need to be.
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
OK so I would like to put a friendly end to this debate. Some are saying maybe GPS test app is flawed. No GPS TEST app is accurate. You see GPS TEST app is doing nothing more than just using your phones built in GPS test and putting it into a pretty visual format.
To access your phones native GPS TEST go to dial pad and dial *#*#1472365#*#* then choose position test. It will tell you the number of satellites in view and puts a star asterisk next to those you are locked onto. It also gives you accuracy in meters, which you can convert to feet by multiplying the number of meters by 3.2808399 ft. This accuracy will be basically the same accuracy as GPS test app.
Next the native GPS test gives you longitude and latitude. Go to your web browser, open up Google maps, put in those values, and you will see if your location is accurate or not. Of course my location was way off.
I hope people now believe that GPS TEST app is nothing more than a pretty visual version of VIBRANTS built in native GPS position test.
update edit:
Oh I didn't see other people like robinelli are using this native gps test, awesome. See the GPS is still shitty as always. Just confirms GPS TEST APP has been accurate all along. Robinelli accuracy of 49 meters? Yikes thats 161 ft accuracy
Also robinelli your test on one shows 2 sats, on the other shows 3. You don't have any star asterisks next to any of those sats in view, meaning you locked onto zero SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
Boy what was I smoking this morning, all of you already posted this before I posted it. LOL
hey, you said you are locked onto 9 out of 10, actually you don't have any star asterisks next to any of those sats. It should show a star asterisk next to the sats that its truely locked onto. So looks like you are locked onto zero. I dunno though, I might be wronged. On my phone it puts an asterisk onto the ones i'm locked onto. The information in this native GPS test matches almost exactly the GPS TEST APP.
Today is a lucky day for me, I'm now viewing 11 sats, all week I could only see 2. Both GPS TEST APP and the native built in GPS test show 11 sats with GPS TEST APP showing 1 locked in, and the native APP showing 1 sat with an asterisk. Accuracy on the GPS TEST APP is 138 ft. Accuracy on the native GPS test is 44 meters which is 144 ft.
GPS Test APP is basically just putting the phones internal native gps test into a pretty visual format and converting meteres to ft. They are the same thing. No difference
VegasTouch
Android Enthusiast
Well i am in the house and it took 83 seconds for the ttff/tft , locked on to two Sats, ... then couple minutes later 3...using the * theory anyways. Otherwise i have 10, but accuracy was better when the 3rd one popped up with a * .. Accuracy is 8 meters or about 25-26 feet.
Again, in the house. Still not good because it is slow.
Again, in the house. Still not good because it is slow.
I think you're wrong, at least about the meaning of the *. It's not possible to get a location fix from 1 GPS bird. Takes at least 3 for 2D location, and 4 for 3D location (altitude). If position and altitude are being specified then at least 4 sats are in use. At least that's my reading of the articles that I find through a Google search on GPS.
It's very possible that the Samsung Galaxy S phones are not putting a * next to sats it's using, and other phones may be, which could account for the 0 in use by GPS Test. But, clearly it's not reasonalbe to assume a position is being determined by using no sats, so GPS Test would appear to be at least misleading. It may be accurate on other counts. (note: I'm running the GPS Position Test as I'm typing this and it's showing a * next to a sat with a 0DB signal. That does not appear to be indicative of a lock.)
Additional reading of GPS articles indicates different manufacturers report their error rates very differently, since it's quite complex. Just check the Wiki on GPS accuracy. My accuracy is as good or better than my standalone GPS, which I've used happily for several years driving around the country. Hopefully the Vibrant won't change for the worse, although some have reported it working well for days, then not. We'll see.
Bottom line for me is still does it do what you need? If not, then I would recommend hounding Samsung and T-Mobile. If it does, then enjoy.
robo21
Android Expert
Thanks for posting WB, your results are the best I've seen so far. I have not tried the fix yet but your post has inspired me to try that. Who knows I might be able to lock more than the 4 maximum I've had so far.
Thankfully, your veracity has not been assailed as mine was when I reported that my GPS was functioning. Some people will never believe that 3rd party software might possibly have issues. Especially, when it comes to accuracy estimates. I mean the first clue that I had that GPS Test might be flawed was when it was showing my Vibrant locked on only 3 birds with 50 feet of accuracy while simultaneously Google Maps pinpointed my EXACT LOCATION to within inches.
Using the Vibrant's onboard GPS test I'm currently locked on between 3 and 6 birds indoors while I'm sitting here at my computer. I have not yet applied "the fix."
Once again, thank you for shedding light rather than heat (as some have done) on this subject. Open minded thinking, questioning, investigarion, experimentation and discussion are all elements that will help us to better understand this issue.
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
I think you're wrong, at least about the meaning of the *. It's not possible to get a location fix from 1 GPS bird. Takes at least 3 for 2D location, and 4 for 3D location (altitude). If position and altitude are being specified then at least 4 sats are in use.
Bottom line for me is still does it do what you need? If not, then I would recommend hounding Samsung and T-Mobile. If it does, then enjoy.
The asterisks are in fact reflective of the number of satellites fixed. Yes it is odd the native app locks onto satellites with O signal. However GPS test app does the same thing I'm getting a lock on a satellite with zero signal. Clearly the native GPS test and the one from market place are the same thing...the GPS test app is just visualizing the native test data into a visually appealing app.
The issue clearly is not the GPS test app. ....I think the better question we should be asking is...why is the vibrant locking onto satellites it gets virtually zero signal from. This is clearly proof that both testing aps are fine..instead something fishy is going on with the GPS on these phones.
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
Okay here are 4 ways to test your GPS. Some have falsely said the GPS TEST APP in market place is not accurate, however it is accurate because it gives the same results as the native built in GPS test.
First Method:
go to dial pad, dial in *#*#1472365#*#* click position test. this lists your lat and longitude that you can put into google maps and get your location. it shows number of satelites, those sats that are fixed will show an asterisk. Accuracy is displayed in meters, convert to ft by multiplying meters by 3.2808399ft. I believe TTFF/TTF is the time it takes(time to first fix -ttff ?)
Second Method:
Download "GPS TEST" from the market, developer is Chartcross Limited. Basically it gives you the same results as method one, just in a visual format.
Third Method:
Download "GPS Status" from the market, developer is EclipSim. Again gives same results as method 1 and method 2 above, just displays info visually.
Fourth Method:
Download "GPS" app from market by developer Andrea Baccega. This app only shows lat and longitude which you can place into google maps to get your location. Speed, and Accuracy in meters. Again results are same as method one.
I'm sure someone is still going to insist that the Vibrants GPS is fine, and that all 4 methods above must be flawed including the native gps test built into the phone.
Maybe none of the methods above are accurate, including the built in native test, then that shows there is clearly some software or maybe hardware problem going on with the galaxy s phones.
First Method:
go to dial pad, dial in *#*#1472365#*#* click position test. this lists your lat and longitude that you can put into google maps and get your location. it shows number of satelites, those sats that are fixed will show an asterisk. Accuracy is displayed in meters, convert to ft by multiplying meters by 3.2808399ft. I believe TTFF/TTF is the time it takes(time to first fix -ttff ?)
Second Method:
Download "GPS TEST" from the market, developer is Chartcross Limited. Basically it gives you the same results as method one, just in a visual format.
Third Method:
Download "GPS Status" from the market, developer is EclipSim. Again gives same results as method 1 and method 2 above, just displays info visually.
Fourth Method:
Download "GPS" app from market by developer Andrea Baccega. This app only shows lat and longitude which you can place into google maps to get your location. Speed, and Accuracy in meters. Again results are same as method one.
I'm sure someone is still going to insist that the Vibrants GPS is fine, and that all 4 methods above must be flawed including the native gps test built into the phone.
Maybe none of the methods above are accurate, including the built in native test, then that shows there is clearly some software or maybe hardware problem going on with the galaxy s phones.
VegasTouch
Android Enthusiast
We know it is messed up. Dont need to run a bunch of tests. I just hope it gets fixed by the time 2.2 comes to us. Mine works eventually. Just wish it were faster.
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
I think the reason for multiple tests is to put an end to continued efforts from 1 or 2 people that the vibrants gps is fine and that the real problem was the GPS test APP. Obviously the app is working as it should, but the vibrant isn't
robo21
Android Expert
I have to differ with you Sammy on your assumption that just because the resident accuracy estimates within the Vibrant happen to agree with the accuracy estimates in GPS Test that both are correct. Logic would dictate that if they are the same, they either could both be correct or they could both be incorrect. IF the results on Google Maps (real world test) are precisely indicating the devices position (while simultaneously the testing software is showing large error estimates) then logic would further be leaning toward BOTH TESTING PROGRAMS ARE INCORRECT. This could be because the apps like GPS Test and GPS Status, etc., are drawing off of the native algorithm for determining accuracy which is in itself flawed. If all of these are in agreement this is very likely the case.
After all, it is the real world results we are after anyway, at least I hope. Why would anybody want to huddle around there phone running GPS Test or the Vibrant GPS test for accuracy. A far better, more meaningful test is Google Maps, especially since that's how we use our GPS in day to day activity.
Bingo!
robo21
Android Expert
I assume you are including me in your allusion when you say "1 or 2 people." But Sammy, I have NEVER said that the GPS is "fine!" I've said that I am not locking as many birds as I'd like, it's not locking as fast as I'd like BUT that it gets me from point A to point B with no problems once it locks.
The only problem I have with the GPS Test app is the accuracy estimate because it (like the native Vibrant GPS accuracy estimates) are so far from reality - "reality" being defined as the pinpoint location on Google Maps.
Maybe an example will help: Let's say that the GPS Test and the native Vibrant accuracy estimates both say 40 meters or about 120 feet. Let's say that I go to Google Maps and the blue locator pipper is directly on my EXACT LOCATION. Now let's say I walk 300 feet and Google Maps still shows my EXACT LOCATION on the map indicated by the pipper, but the GPS Test and native Vibrant GPS test are still showing an error estimate of between 30 and 40 meters (90+ to 120+ feet).
Which are you going to believe? The map showing your EXACT LOCATION or either GPS Tests' estimates - remember these are "estimates" for a reason. I know that this may be difficult for you. You have a Vibrant that will not lock birds with any regularity. Some of the photos you have posted are horrendous in terms of the ability of your device to locate you or lock birds. So I can totally empathize with your incredulity when you attack my thinking on this. But you cannot defeat logic.
Keep in mind, I have tried this on several occasions. And that's why I say the testing software algorithm for estimating accuracy is generating misleading results.
Please don't assume that because my GPS is working at a functional level and the same with several other posters that I believe that there is NO GPS ISSUE. I fully acknowledge that many Vibrants are having horrendous GPS issues. My point is that is meaningless and complete folly to look at accuracy estimates as being a touchstone to reality. Look at the map if you want reality. If the map is way off NOW you have a real indicator of the true extent of your accuracy or lack thereof.
robo21
Android Expert
I just ran the native Vibrant GPS tests after doing "the fix." I am locking more birds faster but my accuracy estimates in both GPS Test and the Vibrant native tests' accuracy estimate are still HUGE and must be in error. They are ranging between 20 feet and 40 meters.
Yet reliably and repeatedly the GPS pipper on Google Maps is indicating my precise location to within a few feet at most deviation.
One thing I noticed that improved dramatically after "the fix" is the amount of time to lock is now 4-5 seconds where before it was 10-15 seconds.
Thanks again Wildblue for the info you posted. And especially posting your image showing a lock of up to 9 birds. Remarkable performance for a Vibrant with allegedly completely defective GPS!
Yet reliably and repeatedly the GPS pipper on Google Maps is indicating my precise location to within a few feet at most deviation.
One thing I noticed that improved dramatically after "the fix" is the amount of time to lock is now 4-5 seconds where before it was 10-15 seconds.
Thanks again Wildblue for the info you posted. And especially posting your image showing a lock of up to 9 birds. Remarkable performance for a Vibrant with allegedly completely defective GPS!
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
I just ran the native Vibrant GPS tests after doing "the fix." I am locking more birds faster but my accuracy estimates in both GPS Test and the Vibrant native tests' accuracy estimate are still HUGE and must be in error. They are ranging between 20 feet and 40 meters.
Yet reliably and repeatedly the GPS pipper on Google Maps is indicating my precise location to within a few feet at most deviation.
One thing I noticed that improved dramatically after "the fix" is the amount of time to lock is now 4-5 seconds where before it was 10-15 seconds.
Thanks again Wildblue for the info you posted. And especially posting your image showing a lock of up to 9 birds. Remarkable performance for a Vibrant with allegedly completely defective GPS!
Dear Robo21, I don't know why you are thanking wildblue. He shows 10 satelites, and zero are fixed in, not 9. Only sats with asterisks are locked in. Which explains his 19 meter accuracy, which is about 63 ft.
There is an entire discussion about this at xda developers where some developers are suggesting it is infact hardware. You see his phone is seeing 10 sats, and using them that is how he gets 63 ft poor accuracy, but he has no definitive locks. The developers are suggesting something about using the sats its sees, but getting no locks, and something about buffers. I don't know its too technical for me to understand. In short the phone is "kinda" using the sats it sees, but theres a buffering problem or something, and it can't get a deffinate lock.
The proof is infront of your eyes, there are no locked on sats, and accuracy is 63 ft, I don't know why you continue to thank him as if he proved all of us wrong.
Today when I run the native gps test my phone is seeing 11 sats, with 1 locked in asterisk, and my accuracy is 160+ ft.
Apparantly the phone is using the sats in view, picking them up momentarily to gain momentary information from the sats, but never forms a stable lock, something about buffers, I don't understand my self.
Again, he has NO LOCKED IN SATS, zero not nine.
chrisinsocalif
Well-Known Member
I have been waiting for the Vibrant to be released, now reading all the GPS problems i will not buy one. If there isn't a fix in a month or two, I will just buy the Nexus one from Google. GPS problems is a deal breaker for me. Please keep the forum updated if there is a firmware fix for the GPS and hope its not a hardware problem.
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
just a quick fyi google stopped selling the nexus one. Maybe you can find it on ebay. As far as googl.com sales its discontinued
Thanks again Wildblue for the info you posted. And especially posting your image showing a lock of up to 9 birds. Remarkable performance for a Vibrant with allegedly completely defective GPS!
Sure, no problem.
The number of sats I'm seeing and get usable signal from varies minute to minute just like all GPS devices, so I'm not claiming the one snapshot I took is what I see most of the time, but it does indicate some of these units are certainly capable of good performance.
If I leave the GPS off for a while it can take a minute or two to get a lock again, but that's still much better than my standalone device.
I agree that map location, and using driving directions, are the only tests that matter, at least to me, and on that count my Vibrant is working just as I would expect right now.
I'm certainly not dismissing anyone else's experience.
chrisinsocalif
Well-Known Member
No, you can still buy it.
SamsungVibrant
Android Expert
How? Google has stopped sales of nexus one unless you are a registered developer...then you can only purchase via brighstar.
Visit... Nexus One Phone all the info is the
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