Zenze
Well-Known Member
I don't see how you can say Obama is not a patriot. Just because he (or anyone else for that matter) had different opinions from you does not mean that he doesn't have love of country.
-
After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.
Americas Flag
- Thread starter Crude
- Start date
I don't see how you can say Obama is not a patriot. Just because he (or anyone else for that matter) had different opinions from you does not mean that he doesn't have love of country.
B
brab
Guest
What does it matter where he is when he honors our milatary dead?
Ronald Reagan and George Bush also missed the ceremony at Arlington. I suppose they were not patriots either. And before you say that is not true, look it up.
Ronald Reagan and George Bush also missed the ceremony at Arlington. I suppose they were not patriots either. And before you say that is not true, look it up.
Care to give us some credible proof that he is a patriot? Or do you think he is a patriot because he does things your way?
Since this thread is about our flag and patriotism.....
hakr100
Android Expert
Care to give us some credible proof that he is a patriot? Or do you think he is a patriot because he does things your way?
The poster who raised this question claimed Obama was not a patriot. You seem to agree. So...go ahead, make my day...prove your negative.
The photo you posted, by the way, proves nothing.
Crude
Android Expert
Nothing to do with my views, he is anti constitution and for that matter he it anti American. His decisions reflect a consistent effort to under mind our security and integrity to appease other countries. His first priority should be to side with American, not apologize for actions that were necessary at the time. Also the way he treats our ONLY true ally in the middle east gives me every reason to believe he is in fact a muslim. And if he's lying about that it's reasonable to believe he's lying about his citizenship also.
This guy is "wishy washy" everything he does is wack.
Zenze
Well-Known Member
Him being anti constitution is your view. I don't see anything he has done as going against the constitution. If here is something I'm sure the Supreme Court will step in and do something about it. All of the other things you mentioned seem to be views/opinions as well.
Also he goes to church and says he is a Christian. However, I don't think hes particularly religious at all. Even if he was a muslim I wouldn't care either way, what does that have to do with anything?
If he were lying about his citizenship that would be the biggest conspiracy/coverup in the history of the country. It would have had to be planned sense before his birth to pull it off, and so many people would have to be involved. Even the newspaper in Hawaii which showed his birth in the paper would have had to be in on it.
Au contraire...you made a claim that Obama is a patriot. Therefore the ball is in your court to prove that he is.
The photo shows how little Obama cares for displaying patriotism and respect for our country, despite Snopes trying to give excuses to the contrary. You say that is nothing. Hmmm.....patriotism......hate for America......
Someone mentioned that Obama is not the first president to miss visiting Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day and laying a wreath. Technically true.....but let's look at that.
In 2002 President George W. Bush was in France on Memorial Day. He attended and participated in ceremonies at Normandy, you know, where D-Day was? (whoopsie! guess Bush bashing missed!)
During his presidency, President George H.W. Bush did not attend ceremonies at Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day. However, President Bush (41) is a World War 2 veteran and hero, having flown a TBF Avenger and was even shot down and rescued by a submarine. I think President Bush (41) earned Memorial Days off, don't you?
In 1981 President Reagan spent Memorial Day at his ranch in Santa Barbara, having been shot in an assassination attempt just six weeks earlier. In in 1983 he was attending a summit meeting. In 1987 he spent Memorial Day at Camp David. Could have been due to lasting effects of having been shot in that assassination attempt. In 1988 President Reagan was again working on Memorial Day, attending a summit.
Obama, never served in any military branch, therefore not a hero by even the loosest sense of the word, and not out of the country like Dubya, or working like Reagan....or recuperating or suffering lasting effects of being shot in an assassination attempt, chose to have his thug party in Chicago. He has done nothing to earn this day off. He isn't working either. The only reasonable explanation is Obama took the opportunity to thumb his nose at our heroes.
Of course, visiting Arlington National Cemetery (when possible, as illustrated above) on this day by a president shows respect, gratitude, and reverence to and for this nation's heroes. Of course, Obama is not known for respecting our heroes, or anything else positive with our military either.
hakr100
Android Expert
Uh...that isn't how logical argument is carried on. It's up to you to prove Obama is not a patriot. You won't be3 able to do that.
The photo you offered proves nothing.
That's utter nonsense. There are many ways to be a hero. Military service is just one of them, and just being in the military does not confer "hero-hood."
Oh, and it doesn't matter which military cemetery one visits. We have heroic military dead buried everywhere. I'd like to see a POTUS visit Gettysburg or Antietam on Memorial Day.
I do find it mildly humorous that you bring up George W. Bush. But that's for another thread.
Um, no. In debate, you make a claim, you prove your claim. It's not for me to prove the claims you make. Not surprising that you can't and apparently don't want to even try to defend your claim. After all, we're talking about Obama.
Is there a problem with your monitor? It clearly shows Obama showing disrespect. Might as well of just put his hands in his pockets and spit on the stage.
Well he sure as hell isn't Lassie and just saved Timmy from getting lost in the cave. Obama is nowhere near a hero. Failure, yes. Hero, no. Unless you mean the sandwich.
Unless you have served our country in the military, I don't think you are any authority to proclaim whether anyone in (or was in) our military a hero. Combat works for me, but there are other areas. Someone may have an MOS that is supportive, yet their actions can sometimes be most heroic. Like the guys in an E-2 Hawkeye. I knew a few guys that flew in those. Did an amazing job.
Thing is that the presidents I mentioned that missed Arlington National Cemetery on this day had very good reasons like being out of the country, getting shot, working at a summit, being a WW 2 hero, are very understandable. Obviously Obama knows the tradition, importance, and expectation of him to visit Arlington or he wouldn't have sent Biden to fill-in. Obama just plain doesn't care. That is what makes the difference and shows his hate for America.
Yes, me too. Very sacred ground. July 1st or even the 4th of July (when you have your date with Scarlett Johansson
) would be a great time for President Obama to visit Gettysburg and hold a ceremony.Hey, I work with what I've got!
hakr100
Android Expert
"Um, no. In debate, you make a claim, you prove your claim. It's not for me to prove the claims you make. Not surprising that you can't and apparently don't want to even try to defend your claim. After all, we're talking about Obama."
The reality is, I responded to a post made from your side of the aisle in which the claim was made that Obama was not a patriot. No proof was offered, and still hasn't been. It's a b.s. claim.
"Is there a problem with your monitor? It clearly shows Obama showing disrespect. Might as well of just put his hands in his pockets and spit on the stage."
Once again, the photo shows nothing, and it has a history, as you know, including the Snopes reference. Further, putting one's hand over one's heart is not necessarily an indicator of anything beyond honoring a custom.
"Unless you have served our country in the military, I don't think you are any authority to proclaim whether anyone in (or was in) our military a hero. "
Your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But that doesn't mean it has any particular validity. Again, because someone was in the military does not make that person a hero. Further, there are plenty of ways to be a hero without being in the military.
The reality is, I responded to a post made from your side of the aisle in which the claim was made that Obama was not a patriot. No proof was offered, and still hasn't been. It's a b.s. claim.
"Is there a problem with your monitor? It clearly shows Obama showing disrespect. Might as well of just put his hands in his pockets and spit on the stage."
Once again, the photo shows nothing, and it has a history, as you know, including the Snopes reference. Further, putting one's hand over one's heart is not necessarily an indicator of anything beyond honoring a custom.
"Unless you have served our country in the military, I don't think you are any authority to proclaim whether anyone in (or was in) our military a hero. "
Your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But that doesn't mean it has any particular validity. Again, because someone was in the military does not make that person a hero. Further, there are plenty of ways to be a hero without being in the military.
However, I did not make the claim that Obama is not a patriot. You though did make the claim that he is. Therefore, I have asked you to prove your claim. It's not my responsibility to prove the claims of others regardless of which side of the aisle, but it is required that you prove yours.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this point.
For myself, I have no need for anyone to ever consider me a hero, regardless of my MOS and what I did. But there are other people that would not be regarded as "heroic" yet proved they had what it takes when events like an ambush, an IED, etc. happened. You wouldn't know of their bravery, but that's always the way it is. It's life.
Edit: Additionally, any member of our military, regardless of branch, that is KIA is someone that I (and every vet I know) would consider to be a hero. When the ultimate sacrifice is given, nothing can surpass that. Those men and women deserve the respect and gratitude they earned by giving their lives.
You might get a chuckle out of this:
Remember Darva Conger from that "Who Wants To Marry A Millionaire?" show back in 2000? She claimed she was a Gulf War vet. She was a nurse and no one doubted her initially. Some time after the show and the ensuing "marriage" and annulment mess Conger was exposed as never having served in the Gulf. Her explanation? Something like "anyone that served in uniform during the Gulf War is a Gulf War vet, regardless of where they actually served!"
Crude
Android Expert
I suppose, but the constitution is very clear about some issues but Obama doesn't see it that way. Also the SC isn't exactly unfailing either. After all they are just humans....very disconnected humans.
And before that he was muslim. It holds relevance with the way he treats our allies the Israelis?
No it wouldn't have, all you need is a few "experts" to make it believable. What about his SS#? You don't think our politicians are capable of deceit at this level?
hakr100
Android Expert
Wait, wait, don't tell me...are you questioning whether Obama has a Social Security number? Is this something new, or is it an adjunct to the so-called "birther" movement?
hakr100
Android Expert
What about firefighters and police killed in the line of duty? Are they heroes, too? What about peace workers killed in action? Are they heroes, too? How about frontline social workers killed in some of the tough neighborhoods they work? Are they heroes, too?
You don't have to be wearing a military uniform to be killed "in action."
Zenze
Well-Known Member
Like what out of curiosity.
If your going to say hes a muslim, provide some kind of proof. How does it hold relevance with the way we treat Israel? I still don't see how what religion he follows makes a difference.
I didn't ever say that only military personell are or could be heroes. Tell me, do you consider Obama to be a hero? If so, why?
hakr100
Android Expert
To me, a hero is someone who exhibits extraordinary bravery, firmness, fortitude, or greatness of soul, in any course of action, or in connection with any pursuit, work, or enterprise.
I believe Obama will be judged a heroic figure.
But that is not an answer to my question. Do you consider Obama a hero (now)? If so, why?
hakr100
Android Expert
To stand for the highest political office in this country as a black man in 2008 with all the loonies who apparently want to see him dead? Sure.
I'd say you have a very loose definition of what a "hero" is then. Obama did nothing even remotely heroic before he was elected and hasn't since, either.
This is what I don't get about Obama fanbois. He ran for office because and was elected because of his skin color (you admitted to that) by libs that were tripping over themselves to prove they aren't racist. Any dissension or criticism of Obama is called "racist" and you even say "loonies" want him dead. Death threats are part of every president. But you hold Obama as special because of people that may want him dead? Dead is dead, regardless of reasons. Look at Hinkley and Reagan. Would the real reason have mattered if Hinkley had been successful? By your logic Reagan was a much better president than Obama because Reagan was actually shot by a loony.
hakr100
Android Expert
Usually, I'm a pretty polite guy. So, please don't take offense at this. I don't give a tinker's dam about what those on what I consider the far right think or say.
I don't try to convince readers of these sorts of groups to agree with me. I don't care if they do or they don't. I also don't pay much attention to the opinions of those on the far right. It's not that I have a closed mind; I don't. I do read some conservative writers. But the far right...not so much.
I'm a moderate, by the way, but probably not by your standards.
I understand where you're coming from, because I'm the same way. Example: I have been called a racist by a black woman while in line at Wal-Mart because myself and a black friend were discussing Obama. I criticized Obama, my friend concurred, and she overheard. Called me a racist, but not my black friend. So I told her she was actually the racist. She sputtered because by the rules of libs, I was supposed to slink off, say nothing, and feel badly. I didn't because I don't give a flying fark what liberals thing of my views. Far lefties or otherwise.Usually, I'm a pretty polite guy. So, please don't take offense at this. I don't give a tinker's dam about what those on what I consider the far right think or say.
I don't try to convince readers of these sorts of groups to agree with me. I don't care if they do or they don't. I also don't pay much attention to the opinions of those on the far right. It's not that I have a closed mind; I don't. I do read some conservative writers. But the far right...not so much.
I'm a moderate, by the way, but probably not by your standards.
I'm more of a moderate myself, but that word has several definitions politically. With libs that I am acquainted with, it means "You have to agree with me then or you're a neo-con" Yeah, big deal. Labels like that from a lib mean just so much to me.
I remember watching some TV show where a black family just moved into the neighborhood. There was a black guy in his 20's as a part of the family and he was this angry guy. A white guy also in his 20's was trying to befriend him and the black guy kept finding every way to make the white guy be the bad guy. Finally the white guy just called the black guy out, saying that that black guy focused more on skin color than anyone else there. People didn't want to hang out with him not because he was black but because he was a pissed off bitter guy that was mean to everyone.
I also taught a student in my class that kept viewing herself as a victim. She was mix black and latina and always spent time complaining about how the system is prejudiced against her and unfair. While I agreed with her that the system is not fair I told her very firmly that life is a bitch. You can either whine about it and play the victim and be the victim or fight and get out of the hell hole you are in. Who knows if she will listen.
I know there are still racist people around for sure. But as a culture, race, group whatevers, people gotta stop pigeon holing themselves as being the victim. This is probably taboo to say this but I feel like blacks (and other races as well) completely limit themselves from every becoming better by keeping on playing the victim and seeing persecution everywhere. You are only as strong and powerful as you make yourself to be. If you keep on wanting hand outs and support for everything "to help you improve your life" you will just depend on it for the rest of your life.
Crude
Android Expert
the 2nd to start with....
I have no proof what he is or isn't. It's a well know fact that he was muslim before he converted to christianity, which if I might add, a muslim changing his religion is within the odds of winning the lottery. And if you can't figure out how this hold relevance with how our relationship with Israel has changed in the last couple months then all reasoning is lost on you.
Do you really like the guy or some thing?