An Alarming Trend...

[zuben el genub]

I guess I'm confused as to what people define as "the cloud", then. If they're talking about paying $1 to buy a song, then lol, yes screw that. But I'm likewise talking about ripping mp3s and uploading them to "the cloud". They don't vanish from my computer when I do that and that functionality is the entire selling point of Google Music over Spotify, etc.

But yes, if you have no data I definitely understand storing mp3s on your phone. Either way, storage matters, a lot.

This article talked about books - I suppose music could also disappear.
http://gizmodo.com/travelers-beware-google-play-might-delete-all-your-boo-1159832224

If this is true - why can't Google just cut off storage for copyrights in the country that doesn't like the rules or whatever, and reconnect when you get back to where copyrights are supported instead of deleting everything?

 

[mikedt]

This article talked about books - I suppose music could also disappear.
Travelers Beware: Google Play Might Delete All Your Books

If this is true - why can't Google just cut off storage for copyrights in the country that doesn't like the rules or whatever, and reconnect when you get back to where copyrights are supported instead of deleting everything?

That backs up something I've always thought about any product that's got DRM. It's not actually yours, it's leased to you. And anything that's leased can be taken back or rescinded at any time, or in this case only work in certain countries.

There was Sony Connect DRM protected music. Any "purchases" that anyone made from Connect would no longer play after March 2008. As Sony discontinued the service and turned off the authentication servers. Same thing with any DRM'd e-books, company discontinues the service or you travel to a different country, all of your "purchases" go dead. Of course the DMCA makes a criminal of anyone who tries to circumvent DRM in the US.

If I bought any Android apps from Google Play when I was in the UK a couple of months ago, and if I had to reset the phone for whatever reason, I would NOT be able to re-download them in China.

Anything you have on Google Music would definitely disappear until you went back home. You just get a message telling you that Google Music is not available in this country. even though it might be your MP3s that you've uploaded. In fact it actually says as I'm looking at it now..."The Google Play music player is currently available in select territories."...so there you go. ...so if you're relying on the Google cloud for your tunes, don't travel outside of "select territories", or you'll be left in silence, and feeling very frustrated probably.

Thing with Google, it doesn't matter if you have say a US credit card and US billing address on your account, if you're in China, you get Google's service for China. Which basically means you don't get much, and looking at the Gizmodo story, include deleting your DRM'd e-books as well.

 

[JIMV]

He's correct about common music files; while you own the file itself, the content within is owned by someone else and they license the rights to you. He's wrong to imply that all files include that type of content; I have plenty of my own content. The issue I raised earlier which I think needs to be said in this context but perhaps needs less off-topic discussion is that if you import data that is illegal somewhere, regardless of your ownership or not, you could be subject to punishment like jail time -- and having it on an SD card is no better than downloading it from the cloud in that case, you're still doing hard time.

If you choose to go to a non free nation, then the theft of your property is your problem. Far more important to me is the potential for abuse in that cloud. The site can raise your use fees, can go out of business, can be attacked in a hack and be damaged or destroyed, and can be raided by the Feds for a snoop without your even knowing it. You are 100% reliant on the proper working of that site and 100% unable to control anything on the site. If the owners have a sudden greed attack or suffer spontaneous stupidity, your data or your wallet is in jeopardy.

Every time the owner fiddles with or 'improves' the cloud site, you have to live with the improvement. I use a 3rd party music software on my iMac that is reliant on Tunes for its operation. Each and every time iTunes updates its software (something completely outside my control), the music software develops a host of bugs and problems and takes days to weeks to function properly again. Cloud storage is this problem in steroids.

If you have the files you use on your device, then YOU are in control. If you change devices, that data goes with the change and no entity aside from you fiddles with it.

It is reliable...the cloud is simply expensive.

 

[JIMV]

This article talked about books - I suppose music could also disappear.
Travelers Beware: Google Play Might Delete All Your Books

If this is true - why can't Google just cut off storage for copyrights in the country that doesn't like the rules or whatever, and reconnect when you get back to where copyrights are supported instead of deleting everything?

It really does call the idea of property into question. I do not 'buy' anything with such strings and I keep my property on my devices. If one is using a service like Pandora, which I adore, then one knows one does not own that music, just like one did not own the music coming through ones radio. If, however, you pay for a file, then you are either buying it or renting it. I object to the current perversion of the language. Renting is not owning. It is like the misuse of such phrases as 'unlimited' data plans which are in reality, limited.

 

[mikedt]

It really does call the idea of property into question. I do not 'buy' anything with such strings and I keep my property on my devices. If one is using a service like Pandora, which I adore, then one knows one does not own that music, just like one did not own the music coming through ones radio. If, however, you pay for a file, then you are either buying it or renting it. I object to the current perversion of the language. Renting is not owning. It is like the misuse of such phrases as 'unlimited' data plans which are in reality, limited.

You can't even get around the geographical restrictions on Google's products with a VPN. It goes on the carrier or ISP. If your device instead of saying something like "Verizon Google Nexus", has "SingTel Mobile Google Nexus" or "China Telecom Google Nexus". That's it your stuff has gone, no e-books, no movies, no music, and you can't re-download your paid apps either., not until you return home. So backup those APKs.

I just will not "buy" anything with "strings attached", DRM or relies on the cloud. Because it's not truly yours, it's only rented or leased, and subject to IMO draconian licenses, which can be changed or revoked any time. "Google may remove from your Device or cease providing you with access to certain Products that you have purchased."

Something like Pandora or Spotify are also fine by me, because indeed you know it's not your music, no more than listening to songs from the radio. Same with renting a movie from Netflix.

 

[divinebovine]

Indeed that is true. It all comes down to how they are made. A removable battery phone can never be waterproof, while a sealed battery can be if made correctly. However the knock against it is if water can't get in, it usually means heat can't get out. Pick your poison I guess.

I don't see why a phone with a removable battery can't be waterproof. Plenty of waterproof electronic devices must have removable batteries. Point-and-shoot cameras come to mind.

often they use proprietary bits that you can't get at the Home Depot, as well

You're going to the wrong store.
100 Piece Security Bit Set

Aparently the HTC One requires a special tool that isnt available to the public

I've never met a fastener whose security bit requirement I couldn't defeat either by having the right bit (see link above) or by modifying one until it fits. It'll discourage the casual user but any mildly dedicated hacker will only be slowed.

I'm not defending the practice of trying to prevent owners from getting inside their equipment, just chatting about how to circumvent it.

 

[Hadron]

The point about the sd card lasting even if the phone is damaged beyond repair is a great point.

However, SD cards do fail (there's that huge thread about S3s and dead SD cards for example), so it doesn't remove the need to back up important data.

And as for waterproofing, I believe the S4 Active has a removable battery

 

[divinebovine]

However, SD cards do fail (there's that huge thread about S3s and dead SD cards for example), so it doesn't remove the need to back up important data.

There's no such thing as enough backups in enough different places on enough different types of media! Backup, backup, and backup more. I lost at least half a terabyte of data in a series of unlikely hard drive failures early this year. I call it the great collapsing hard drive disaster of 2013.

Also, after your phonepocalypse you must IMMEDIATELY backup the SD card and not trust it for a while. Although it probably survived unscathed, it might not be trustworthy until it has proven itself.

 

[zuben el genub]

Just saw this:
Rescuing an SD card with an Arduino

if it helps anyone.

I do back up in multiple places.

 

[zuben el genub]

Back on the original part of discussion:
The Internet: We’re Doing It Wrong | TechCrunch

I agree and that's what I'm trying to fight. After all, I buy most tools to make things easier the way I need them to. You don't buy a brush cutter to mow a lawn just because it's recommended by so-an-so. If your app doesn't fit, I don't care how much you want me to use it, I won't. The same goes for the system. If everyone was wholly for it, how come we have so many discussions on rooting and alternate apps?

 

[jhawkkw]

I don't see why a phone with a removable battery can't be waterproof. Plenty of waterproof electronic devices must have removable batteries. Point-and-shoot cameras come to mind.

In order for a phone to be waterproof, the edges of the phone have to be sealed in order to prevent water from getting in. But if the phone is sealed, how can you take it apart to get to the battery? In point and shoot cameras, many of the motherboards are sealed in a separate area with the battery in a second area because they aren't prone to overheading. Smartphones are prone to overheating and thus in order to remedy the heat issue, the motherboard isn't sealed, even on non-removable battery phones. So thus, if water gets through the outer shell, it can get into the motherboard. Thus it's paramount that the outer shell is sealed.

 

[divinebovine]

In order for a phone to be waterproof, the edges of the phone have to be sealed in order to prevent water from getting in. But if the phone is sealed, how can you take it apart to get to the battery? In point and shoot cameras, many of the motherboards are sealed in a separate area with the battery in a second area because they aren't prone to overheading. Smartphones are prone to overheating and thus in order to remedy the heat issue, the motherboard isn't sealed, even on non-removable battery phones. So thus, if water gets through the outer shell, it can get into the motherboard. Thus it's paramount that the outer shell is sealed.

There are plenty of ways to seal edges that can be opened and closed by the user.

A phone motherboard sealed separately from the battery has no less cooling than one sealed with the battery in the outer shell; in fact the seal separating it from the battery could help insulate it from battery heat.

The S4 Active, as mentioned above, manages to handle the issue just fine.

 

[anmire]

Just for info, I am not wed to my carrier. I make maybe a half dozen calls a month, do not text, do 99% of my internet use using WiFi, and in general do not use any of the services Verizon offers except the phone. They are charging me a good $20 per call each and every month as they do not offer any plans for folk like me. My contracts are running out so I will most assuredly shop around for a more rational and less greedy carrier.

All I have to say to this, Boost Mobile.

No, seriously though. Boost is actually a pretty good solution, if you consider:

-No contracts
-$50 a month for unlimited everything (throttled monthly if you use over 2 gig of data...it's not that easy.)
-SD card support
-And pre-paid if you don't care for infinite texts and calls

I have a ZTE Warp, which if you navigate to that section of the forums here, you will notice an incredible amount of development. The phone itself straight off the market sucks. It comes stock loaded with bloatware and throttling software that is awful. However, It's *somewhat* high resolution of 800x480 is plenty enough for me, and actually quite clear. Rooting and Romming the phone leads to serious performance boosts. (If you happen to get it, look into warp oem, droidsmith, and warped jelly). A single core snapdragon processor with less than a gig of ram after adreno tweaks gets higher 3D scores than a few tablets, and is almost comparible to the performance of a galaxy s3...which happens to be somewhere around 5 times the price if you don't upgrade or enter a contract. By performance jump, I mean that the score of a stock warp in Antutu benchmark is around 4000-5000, whereas running a rom, it is ~8000. Rooting is also incredibly easy for the phone, I believe being a simple executable file.

Edit: Off topic from the warp though, because I realize that you are looking for lots of space and the phone only comes with 2 gig built in...there are plenty of other phones accessible on boost network. HTC One, and Samsung products, among others. Look into it! ^^

Since Boost piggybacks Sprint, coverage is similar. Check the coverage map just in case (if you are considering it). Also, 4G is spreading on boost...but you use WiFi most of the time anyway, so I don't think it would be a problem?

Really though. Consider not using a major carrier.

 

[IOWA]

Alright, honestly if you refuse to stream music you're just kind of a Luddite.

I disagree. My locally stored files in my S4 will always sound better than anything that's streamed. Not to mention I won't be reliant on wireless signal to make it happen. Also, most people don't have limitless data plans, so there is a financial concern as well.

Adopting and using different technologies to serve your purpose, making the technology conform to your personal needs is the exact opposite of a Luddite.

I have ~40,000 MP3s copied on 2 different hard drives in case one dies. The whole set is uploaded to Amazon. About half of them are on my Google Music.

I don't give a damn if they "belong to me" because they're sitting in my house in two different places and unless Google or Amazon or whoever breaks in, uh, I still physically possess them.

So in addition to being able to stream my entire music collection from any device at any time, and not having to pick 0.5% of it to clog up my phone storage, I have the all-access Google Music deal. I suppose if they end that then I can't stream their library anymore, but those bazillion songs were never mine to begin with, so... ok.

Why I would resign myself to dedicating my entire device to redundant mp3s, I have no frickin' idea. Maybe if I'd fallen for Verizon's "hey, wanna give up your unlimited data?" scam, but that's about it.

So wait, you spend the first two paragraphs boasting at your redundant storage, but then blast redundant storage later on? Which is it?

As an IT professional, redundant storage is a good thing. On top of that, no networked storage(Which is exactly what "cloud storage is" will ever be as reliable as storage that's sitting in the palm of your hand. Ever.

The bottom line, having the ability to listen to tunes on the go reliably is more important to me than the space it takes up on my device. Different strokes for different folks. I don't want my library interrupted because the power goes out at a Sprint/Verizon/[Insert carrier here] data center. As someone who's lived on the bleeding edge for nearly two decades, there's nothing wrong with technology just because there is something newer around the horizon. Personally, I like to use the strengths of all available technologies, and conform them to my needs to make my life easier and more pleasant, which is the purpose of technology in the first place.

Yeah, streaming music has its benefits. I use it all the time. I *love* my slacker radio for times when I'm jonesing for something new. There have also been times slackers gone down, and without my (rather extensive) local library, I'd have been stuck musicless, and that would have driven me bonkers during a typical work day.

 

[JIMV]

"Google may remove from your Device or cease providing you with access to certain Products that you have purchased."

They cannot remove what they did not sell you....I do not buy music or books from Google.

 

[Thatdad]

They cannot remove what they did not sell you....I do not buy music or books from Google.

You are storing it on a device that Google has control over.

 

[zuben el genub]

If you back up on an external hard drive used with a Linux box, Google has absolutely no control.

You simply get a wifi tablet and leave the wifi disabled. Put the card with your books and music in and enjoy.

 

[divinebovine]

They should not remove what they did not sell you....I do not buy music or books from Google.

Fixed that for you.

 

[divinebovine]

Just had another thought about removable batteries...has any company ever sold an extended battery for devices with non-removable batteries? They're commonly available with 2-3x the capacity for phones with removable batteries.

 

[anmire]

Just had another thought about removable batteries...has any company ever sold an extended battery for devices with non-removable batteries? They're commonly available with 2-3x the capacity for phones with removable batteries.

I know I have a pack that works like a secondary battery when my battery gets low...Is that what you're talking about? It's like a portable charge pack for the cell-phone, and plugs in via the charge port. It's actually pretty nice, but it was given to me so I don't know where to get one.

 

[mikedt]

Fixed that for you.

Yes the choice of modal makes a lot of difference.

 

[Thatdad]

Just had another thought about removable batteries...has any company ever sold an extended battery for devices with non-removable batteries? They're commonly available with 2-3x the capacity for phones with removable batteries.

I think Amazon sold one for the iPhone 4.

 

[divinebovine]

I know I have a pack that works like a secondary battery when my battery gets low...Is that what you're talking about? It's like a portable charge pack for the cell-phone, and plugs in via the charge port. It's actually pretty nice, but it was given to me so I don't know where to get one.

No, I'm talking about a higher-capacity replacement battery. They tend to be thicker and come with a rear cover that has extra room.

 

[jhawkkw]

No, I'm talking about a higher-capacity replacement battery. They tend to be thicker and come with a rear cover that has extra room.

Someone on XDA made a guide about adding a second internal battery to the Nexus 4 at the cost of Qi charging. It's sort of what you mean.

 

[funkylogik]

Theres battery charging cases available. Basicly a fat heavy case that charges the battery when it gets low :thumbup: