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Apple and other mega-corporations and the U.S. economy
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cds0699
Android Expert
No way, its ridiculous (in my opinion) to think they should just up and donate money because the company is doing well. They have overhead, employees to pay, and a ton of investors to answer to.
This thread kinda belongs in politics and current events, so I'm gonna move it there. If a mod disagrees they're welcome to move it back to the lounge.
This thread kinda belongs in politics and current events, so I'm gonna move it there. If a mod disagrees they're welcome to move it back to the lounge.
noah way
Android Enthusiast
Apple paid $2.7 billion in taxes worldwide on $18.5 billion in profits in 2010. That's a 14.6% tax rate. If Apple paid the actual US corporate tax rate of 35% they would have paid $6.5 billion.
I don't think they should donate the difference, I think they should be forced to pay it ($3.8 billion), as should ever other job-killing deficit-raising corporate tax evader.
I don't think they should donate the difference, I think they should be forced to pay it ($3.8 billion), as should ever other job-killing deficit-raising corporate tax evader.
i agree big companies should pay their share of taxes... but there has to be a balance..
a lot to consider... in the bigger picture.
companies provide jobs.. and economic movement.
if we raise taxes or force less outsourcing to cheaper countries.. etc...
these things raise the cost of the product..
they have to compete with oversea products...
would it be good in the long run for USA companies to close their doors???
i am not an expert in economies .. micro and macro...
but if you squeeze something.. it has to inflate someplace else.
action and reaction... be careful of the end result might be worse.
a lot to consider... in the bigger picture.
companies provide jobs.. and economic movement.
if we raise taxes or force less outsourcing to cheaper countries.. etc...
these things raise the cost of the product..
they have to compete with oversea products...
would it be good in the long run for USA companies to close their doors???
i am not an expert in economies .. micro and macro...
but if you squeeze something.. it has to inflate someplace else.
action and reaction... be careful of the end result might be worse.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
If they were forced to pay it, you would be forced to pay more in taxes yourself because Apple follows the rules as do you. We have tax laws and there is no evidence that Apple is in any kind of violation of the rules. They should be "Forced" to pay exactly what they pay now.
What about you? If you pay 2500.00 per year in Federal/state taxes, I think you should pay more money to help the country. You simply do not pay enough. If you have kids, the tax exemptions should be taken away from you because it is not fare that you can use your children as loopholes.
Apple pays what it is supposed to pay and that is how it must work.
NO, Apple pays what they pay, because they (not neccesarily Apple, but big bussiness in general) has paid off the politicians to give them favorable tax laws. Not the way it should work.
cds0699
Android Expert
Please let me correct this...
1) Yes I think Apple should pay the proper taxes as any business should.
2) No I don't think they should simply donate some of their profits because the overall economy is suffering.
The US could not get involved in wars and save a ton of money, but that's another topic, for another time
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
I seriously doubt it would lower the pay of execs, but you do bring up a good point. Manufacturing in the States would raise the cost of producing products significantly. Apple (or whatever company) would have to recoup the costs one two ways. They are either going to raise the prices of the goods/services they're providing (which is bad for the economy) or they're going to cut costs by cutting salaries and jobs (which is also bad for the economy). Neither of those options is really palatable IMO. They are not going to simply accept lower profits and go on their way. Their stockholders would not stand for it, nor should they.
You are right, they could lower the salaries. Of the execs, you know, the ones that have exponential increases in their pay over the last 30 years.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Apple does pay the proper amount in taxes. They do not cheat. Or are you an insider with secrets to share?
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
The could, but they won't. Expecting they would is unrealistic to say the least. And honestly, how do you tell a guy who is just as productive as he always was that he needs to take a pay cut?
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
You can take it up with Apple's Executive Compensation Board and perhaps if the shareholders vote on executive pay, you might see if you can bring it up at the next shareholder's meeting.
That is, if you own Apple stock and you own enough stock to be taken seriously. If not, you will not get very far because it is none of your business. Or my business, for that matter.
cds0699
Android Expert
I honestly have no idea about the business dealings of Apple tax wise. I am just saying as a general statement to clarify my post.
My point is, the reason the jobs were outsourcing was not to make the products cheaper. Name one product that decreased in price after outsourcing. The reason they were outsourcing, is so the exec could inflate their pay exponentially.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
Apple is a public company. Everyone is therefore a potential investor. I think it is everyone's business what a publicly traded company pays their executives.
Did you just tell me to shut up on a public discussion board? Or, did you actually have something insightful to say?
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Interesting point. Chances are, if those that think Apple needs to reduce executive pay because it is too high, would likely object if they were told their wages will also be decreased. Then the idea is not so good.
What would employees say if their corporate president making five hundred grand a year had a salary cut of 10 percent and so would every employee? Would they say, good idea, we all must do our part or complain because the exec will still make more money than the workers make, how unfair?
Someone like Steve Jobs simply cannot be easily replaced. Your typical $8.00 per hour Apple worker can be replaced in a heartbeat because they are not worth as much as a Steven Jobs.
And if you start a company, you deserve to be paid whatever you want. Do you want a law that limits what you can be paid? Some think it is a good idea if Apple were forced to do this but then we all suffer because we could be told the exact same thing. Then the idea is not such a good idea.
Some questions people need to ask is what does a highly paid executive bring to the company? Some are worth what they are paid. and some are not. For example, Steve Jobs is paid a dollar a year. Certainly, he is worth far more.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
No, I never told you to shut up.
If you are unhappy with Apple's executive pay, take it up with Apple's Executive Compensation people. If you are a shareholder, they might listen to you. If not, it is really not your business. Raise it at the next stockholder meeting. But again, you wont get in if you have no business being there.
Not telling you to shut up, just pointing you in the right direction. I say Grrrrrrr go get 'em, Jobs, at a buck a year, is really overpaid.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Apple is indeed a public company, and no... unless you are a shareholder, it is really not your business. It has always been this way. The financial data is there to read. Ask Apple for a copy of their Annual Report and they will be glad to help you. They will also send other documents.
Or visit your broker.
The annual report is designed to help people evaluate a corporation before investing. Until you do, you have no say. Except to complain about what you think is unfair. If you think Apple execs are over paid, not much you can do about it. You are not a shareholder, you are an outsider, and you have no vested interest in how the company does what it does.
Then again, should what you think is unfair prove to be a violation of the law, yes, it becomes your business because most crimes are the public's business.
I will say this: if Apple were to pay their executives a billion dollars a year, or purchase new cars, boats, and dirigibles for board members, it becomes the business of the shareholders, their lawyers when they sue, and the SEC to some extent. Then, in some regards, it becomes the public's business, because the government goes after them in court. Then it is the public's business.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Certainly a good guess.
You seem to paint everyone with the same color guess. Some outsource to make a bigger profit, but that is what manufacturers need to do and that is what stockholders demand be done.
You look at outsourcing as a bad thing which is sometimes true. But sometimes it is needed because of laws in this country.
noah way
Android Enthusiast
Corporate tax rules, especially for big corporations, are vastly different from the rules applied to sole proprietors and individuals. That's why GE, Exxon, Verizon and others paid NO taxes. I don't wish that their tax rules applied to me; I wish that the tax rules applied to me applied to them.
Because corporations don't pay their share, I am forced to pay MORE taxes. And so are you. Somebody has to make up the difference.
Unfortunately, you are so blinded by ideology that you dismiss out of hand any evidence contrary to it.
A.Nonymous
Extreme Android User
I can cite several examples where the cost of goods goes up because the cost of producing goods goes up. Look what happened right after the Japan earthquake. There were lots of electronic components that OEMS either couldn't get or couldn't get in the quantities they needed. This caused shortages in retail and after market prices were driven up temporarily at least.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
I really do not know how to explain how things work to someone who quotes sites like you, but I will try.
Simple fact, you are free to use the same rules and laws large corporations use. The things EXXON, or Apple, or Google, or other world-wide corporations can do will not apply to you because I know you are not running a large world-wide company.
I can deduct the costs some things you can't because your business is different than mine. For example, some costs associated with importing celluloid can be deducted. You can't because you do not import explosive materials or truck them across state lines. So it is not unfair I get a better deal at tax time; it has nothing to do with how unfairly you think life is.
It is not that I am given a tax break and you are not; it has to do with you ain't me and you do not do what I do. When you do, you have access to the same "Loopholes" I have access to. And should I have problems and I fail, I can deduct many of my losses and decrease my taxes.
Grow bigger and become public and then you can speak about such things. Run a company in thirty countries and you can speak. Deal with ultra-complex tax laws and you can speak. Deal with complex industries like the oil business, then you can speak. When your tax returns are measured not in pages, but in twenty pound increments, you can comment.
Because you (or if) are likely working for someone else, your tax returns are but a few pages long and you can't say how unfair these "Loopholes" are because your tax life is uncomplicated compared to an EXXON.
Until you know what it is like to run a vast business with tens of thousands of shareholders, the laws in dozens of countries, corporate tax laws--local and international, tens of thousands of pages of complex documents, you really do not know.
They need to deal with tax laws that do not apply to you because you do not have interests in other states or other parts of the world. They must deal with corporate law and rules of each state and the laws of each country. They must deal with international law and local laws of each country they work in. Things are complex; stop looking at it like you are being cheated and treated unfairly.
They can take deductions you cannot take because their business is vastly different than your "business." They are vast and complex business structures you know nothing about. And neither do I, for that matter. At least not at that highly complex level.
and for the record, i am NOT saying all large corporations play fair and always follow the laws. Bob is not a Bunny. What I am saying is wear a cup. Some have access to laws you dso not because you do not do what they do. wne you do, then you do.
Bob Maxey
Android Expert
Very true. I have first hand experience with that. One specific part was made in Japan and without it, we were stuck.
Incidentally, the California earthquake delayed the opening of our last production facility. The company that provided our ESD floor was in California.
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