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Apple suing HTC

My main problem with Apple is that most of the technology they have patented was already invented or thought of but they were just the first company to use it effectively.
 
SamuraiBigEd said:
Many of the patents are new, too new in fact. This was a case of Apple filing a patent for something already in widespread use, it is called "Patent Whoring".

As for the older patents let's pick one. I've said it in other posts, the object based gui doesn't hold up, they have already been slapped down on that when they tried to go after MS in the 90's.

I'll freely admit to being anti-Apple, but that dates far back before the iPhone was ever even a dream. Apple owners are the first to point out that MS is a big evil corporation, but they refuse to look in their own backyard. Apple is one of the worst companies when it comes to openness and fair market practices on the planet! And until the Mac's started shipping with Intel processors they were nothing more than overpriced toys, now they are just overpriced computers. Add to that Apple refuses to listen to customer requests about the iPhone, yeah Job's is really looking out for the customer.

Job's is running scared, he is attacking the single largest manufacturer of Android phones which represent a threat to his precious iPhone instead of doing product development and trying to top what is coming out against it.

As far as your Hero, I really can't understand what you mean by "working like a fiend on my phone to get this thing to work", is your phone broken? Other than a few bugs here and there that I remedied quite easily after a little research here and elsewhere and the obvious lack of real sync capability with Outlook (this is a problem with any non-WinMo phone apparently) my phone is working perfectly.
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I guess it is broken, as i cannot multiask, nor is youtube app working nor does the default weather update like it should. Working like a fiend to root this thing, to make it run smooth, etc etc.
truly I would like to be able to multitask without this thing lagging and freezing, I could live without the rest for now i guess. I would also like to use this thing without having to fiddle with it and change and experiment with settings and new programs from the market just to make it work like it should. All i ask. I am not a 16 year old kid who lives with mom and dad and has all the time in the world to play with it, i need it for work. Only rerason i am here is to find answers, and when i see pig piling well, I will call people out on it. I have the hero, it's got problems, sorry , glad yours works. there are far moore people complaining about apple and some others than people complaining about android. So I am not sure why it upsets you so bad.

I will defend any company whether it is apple, Ms or HTC when it warrants it. I defended htc's right to sue about their weather app too.

some people do not mind having these problems with their phones, but I paid a lot of money for mine. Others are able to root their phone, tho one should not have too just to make it work correctly. If I could I would root, it seems to be the end all be all answers to the problems with my phone.

some one informed me they have their cellular south phone rooted and I am waiting to see if they will tell me how they did it. Very few have done so without problems with features, he says all is working correctly, so we will see, hope it's true and hope he shares how he did it.
 
Unless it's an exact replica, there's not much HTC can do to copy cats. (beautiful widgets)
 
I didn't read the entire thread (shame on me), but I have been reading and listening (podcasts) and have listened to many different opinion about this. It seems the consensus is that Apple is screwing up with these lawsuits. Even Apple fanboys agree (Leo Laporte). They say if Apple wins, and HTC phones are stopped from coming into the US, there will be a lot of pissed off people. At the same time, if Apple looses, people will start to question Apple's intention with the lawsuit (ie. a frivolous or "marketing spun" lawsuit). I, like many others agree...This one is kinda a loose loose for Apple...
 
bbrosen said:
I guess it is broken, as i cannot multiask, nor is youtube app working nor does the default weather update like it should. Working like a fiend to root this thing, to make it run smooth, etc etc.
truly I would like to be able to multitask without this thing lagging and freezing, I could live without the rest for now i guess. I would also like to use this thing without having to fiddle with it and change and experiment with settings and new programs from the market just to make it work like it should. All i ask. I am not a 16 year old kid who lives with mom and dad and has all the time in the world to play with it, i need it for work.
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The assumption that anyone who knows how to use their Android phone is a "16 year old kid who lives with mom and dad" is amusing. You know, the only people who have to do that are usually very, very insecure.
 
bbrosen said:
I guess it is broken, as i cannot multiask, nor is youtube app working nor does the default weather update like it should. Working like a fiend to root this thing, to make it run smooth, etc etc.
truly I would like to be able to multitask without this thing lagging and freezing, I could live without the rest for now i guess. I would also like to use this thing without having to fiddle with it and change and experiment with settings and new programs from the market just to make it work like it should. All i ask. I am not a 16 year old kid who lives with mom and dad and has all the time in the world to play with it, i need it for work. Only rerason i am here is to find answers, and when i see pig piling well, I will call people out on it. I have the hero, it's got problems, sorry , glad yours works. there are far moore people complaining about apple and some others than people complaining about android. So I am not sure why it upsets you so bad.

I will defend any company whether it is apple, Ms or HTC when it warrants it. I defended htc's right to sue about their weather app too.

some people do not mind having these problems with their phones, but I paid a lot of money for mine. Others are able to root their phone, tho one should not have too just to make it work correctly. If I could I would root, it seems to be the end all be all answers to the problems with my phone.

some one informed me they have their cellular south phone rooted and I am waiting to see if they will tell me how they did it. Very few have done so without problems with features, he says all is working correctly, so we will see, hope it's true and hope he shares how he did it.
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I would suggest seeing about a replacement phone. I don't use YouTube so I can't say anything about that, but my weather app functions just fine, and I can multitask with no problems.

I would take more stock in your defense of Apple if it wasn't a case of what I had stated in my previous post. If Apple has a legitimate patent on something that they invented and it is not just a broad description, but rather a detailed specific claim then more power to them. These are vague, patent whore claims many of which were already in use before Apple filed the patent.

I am guessing the feature problems with Cellular South relate to native apps that are the equivalent to the Sprint apps. That is a problem with Cellular South software, not the phone. Although I was not aware that any other carrier had a branded Hero available.

Lastly, I am a 45 year old business owner and use my Hero daily as my main phone, to send and receive e-mails in the field, and numerous other uses.
 
I think apple is mad because it is loosing sales to HTC due to variety. Apple need to get off their butt and produce more phone that dont look like the iphone. This is just my thought on the matter. It just seem to me that Apple started and stopped with iphone.
 
Mamahnita said:
I think apple is mad because it is loosing sales to HTC due to variety. Apple need to get off their butt and produce more phone that dont look like the iphone. This is just my thought on the matter. It just seem to me that Apple started and stopped with iphone.
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+1

When all you've got is an apple, the whole world looks like an apple.
 
On another site someone called it razorburn in reference to the once hot clamshell device that folks simply got tired of.... Best term I have heard for this but yeah, they need to refresh the menu, no matter how much you love something you cant eat it but so many times before ya gots to have a change. They probably know this and are working on it if I had to bet. Meanwhile you have to come up with some method to slow down the competition....
 
The way I see it just knowing there are patent lawyers tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with the patent process.
 
crabman said:
The way I see it just knowing there are patent lawyers tells me there is something fundamentally wrong with the patent process.
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Then you don't know much about lawyers. Lawyers+Patent law = property right enforcement. There would be something fundamentally wrong if property rights were not enforced.
 
CriticalCritic said:
Then you don't know much about lawyers. Lawyers+Patent law = property right enforcement. There would be something fundamentally wrong if property rights were not enforced.
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The patent process should not require an attorney, and technically it doesn't, but try getting a patent without one, good luck.

The only time an attorneys services should be required is for enforcement when infringement occurs.
 
CriticalCritic said:
Then you don't know much about lawyers. Lawyers+Patent law = property right enforcement. There would be something fundamentally wrong if property rights were not enforced.
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I know too much about lawyers and the opposite is true. There would not be enough work to specialize in patent law if it was just protecting intellectual property and this is not the most important use of patents, its controlling and inhibiting competition. Thats where the meat is and the lions share of billable hours comes from. This is also where the most egregious abuses of the process happen.
 
crabman said:
I know too much about lawyers and the opposite is true. There would not be enough work to specialize in patent law if it was just protecting intellectual property and this is not the most important use of patents, its controlling and inhibiting competition. Thats where the meat is and the lions share of billable hours comes from. This is also where the most egregious abuses of the process happen.
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What its really about is lawyers sucking up money by doing no real productive kind of work, achieving no real results, and making things cost more for consumers.
 
`Ghost` said:
lol

the point is that the patents in question are complete crap and vague.

i just patented the letter E on keyboards. please refrain from using and making keyboards with this letter, thanks.
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Lipograms may constitute a difficult choice for wording a post on a forum.

Yay I did it.


What I really hate is the patents Apple are using that have literally just come through, like the slide to unlock one. I believe that matured in February, a week before they brought the charges on HTC.
 
IOWA said:
What its really about is lawyers sucking up money by doing no real productive kind of work, achieving no real results, and making things cost more for consumers.
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All true except for the productive part. Apples aim is to inhibit competition through force. Their patents are at best weak and mostly BS but they have a lot of money and the prohibitive cost of fighting these battles has already kept some from enabling multi touch and other features. This was their goal, to hinder their competitioin, so they have been productive but I do get what you mean about "real" productive work.
 
SamuraiBigEd said:
The only time an attorneys services should be required is for enforcement when infringement occurs.
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Agreed. Except I would also include they they are needed for defense against accusations of infringement.


crabman said:
I know too much about lawyers and the opposite is true. There would not be enough work to specialize in patent law if it was just protecting intellectual property...
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I never said that was all it was. But still property right enforcement is still a necessity and inherently demands that Lawyers be in this field. Of course there are a few unintended "abuses" though (if you want to call it that).

crabman said:
...this is not the most important use of patents, its controlling and inhibiting competition. Thats where the meat is and the lions share of billable hours comes from. This is also where the most egregious abuses of the process happen.
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So you're saying that if you spent $X,XXX,XXX.XX developing something that you were going to sell... you would be perfectly fine with someone else jumping in, ripping off your work, and selling the product for the same price (or less) than you for a pure profit. While you are busy trying to recoup the costs of development?:confused:

The most important use of patents is to protect the rights of the entrepreneur/developer. As you can derive from my previous example, if there were no enforceable patent laws in place, you would have absolutely NO reason to take the risk in developing a new product. The costs would far exceed the benefits (if there were any net benefits). ALL entrepreneurial endeavors, let alone the new technological developments, would cease to exist and our nation's wealth would quickly decline as a result (or best case scenario it would be 100% stagnant).

Sure, in order to protect the interests of the developer there is a necessary Limited amount of time where competition is inhibited (to an extent) by those patents. And the lion's share of billable hours comes from the marginal differences that copycats try to use to get around those patents. But I'm happy to put up with some marginal issues with the patent system if it means our national economy doesn't come to a screeching and irreparable halt. Aren't you?
 
CriticalCritic said:
Agreed. Except I would also include they they are needed for defense against accusations of infringement.



I never said that was all it was. But still property right enforcement is still a necessity and inherently demands that Lawyers be in this field. Of course there are a few unintended "abuses" though (if you want to call it that).


So you're saying that if you spent $X,XXX,XXX.XX developing something that you were going to sell... you would be perfectly fine with someone else jumping in, ripping off your work, and selling the product for the same price (or less) than you for a pure profit. While you are busy trying to recoup the costs of development?:confused:

The most important use of patents is to protect the rights of the entrepreneur/developer. As you can derive from my previous example, if there were no enforceable patent laws in place, you would have absolutely NO reason to take the risk in developing a new product. The costs would far exceed the benefits (if there were any net benefits). ALL entrepreneurial endeavors, let alone the new technological developments, would cease to exist and our nation's wealth would quickly decline as a result (or best case scenario it would be 100% stagnant).

Sure, in order to protect the interests of the developer there is a necessary Limited amount of time where competition is inhibited (to an extent) by those patents. And the lion's share of billable hours comes from the marginal differences that copycats try to use to get around those patents. But I'm happy to put up with some marginal issues with the patent system if it means our national economy doesn't come to a screeching and irreparable halt. Aren't you?
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Yeah but apples patents are vague garbage at best, and I have yet to see one they actually invented themselves.
 
IOWA said:
Yeah but apples patents are vague garbage at best, and I have yet to see one they actually invented themselves.
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This was my earlier post on the subject http://androidforums.com/android-lounge/49919-apple-suing-htc-5.html#post398883

I completely agree that most of them are BS and go completely against the purpose of patent law. It is abuse, but it's going to happen... especially in an area such as patent law that often depends on arguing subjective micro-margins of differentiation. But nonetheless... Eff Apple.:mad:
 
I am not against someone protecting their intellectual property that is fair and reasonable however the bulk of billable hours has nothing to do with protecting intellectual property. Most of those marginal differences you talk about are patent lawyers coming up with bogus patents to protect a companies position in a market or service but without any real substance, very much like the subject of this thread. The copycats you are talking about for the most part are the companies that have hired patent lawyers for this purpose. This is the bulk of all billable hours, this kind of work. It sounds like we are not going to agree. Last word is yours.
 
this seems like a pc vs mac, controversy.....
I'm a mac guy and have an iPhone.....
ATT service sucks, but the iphone is great and intuitive for NON techies.
We are getting an HTC droid tomorrow, in addition to my iPhone.
The soon to be (next week I'm told) integration with google voice and Navigation is outstanding.
But honestly as far as intuitive use, I think the iPhone has the upper hand.
lets be real, there are those that need simple and easy......this is not a detraction, not all of the end users are inquisitive geeks like us...:)))

I look forward to getting to know the Droid and learning about it.....
Sincerely
Dan
 
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