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arrested for dancing in public.

nlsme said:
I would say that them dancing isnt unreasonable, and that they took action against an unreasonable law.
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Of course dancing isn't unreasonable. Even dancing on a National monument isn't unreasonable, possibly disrespectful, but not unreasonable. Standing up for one's principles against civil authority is not only not unreasonable, but commendable.

However, the officers involved believed (and upheld by the court) that they acted properly according to the law and performed their jobs to the best of their ability in that particular situation. To criticize them is unreasonable, as is continuing to claim there is a "law" against dancing.

The law you are claiming is unreasonable is the same law that prevents me from showing up with 50 of my friends and having a barbecue on your front lawn at midnight ... or should I pack up the grill?
 
noah way said:
We are intolerant of the wrong things. A guy with an anti-Bush t-shirt is dragged off to jail, a guy carrying an automatic weapon is allowed to stand in a crowd near where Obama speaks.

McCain sings, "Bomb bomb bomb ... bomb bomb Iran" in a televised speech, but say the word "bomb" in an airport or on a plane and you're going to interrogation and jail. Simply tipping your seat back and pissing off the guy behind you is enough to get the pilot to call in a terror emergency, get an air force escort, dump 15,000 gallons of fuel and make an emergency landing.

The Patriot Act allows search and seizure that violates the constitution. Protests on Federal property are illegal without a permit ("So, you want to protest? Fill out this form in triplicate, pay this application fee, ...").

At what point did we become a police state? And why aren't the conservatives who constantly trumpet the Constitution screaming about it?
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Please, do cite your references. Obama recently attended a gathering here in MA, and singled out a newspaper (The Boston Herald) from attending it-the ONLY newspaper denied access to his speech. Why? Because they were critical of his policies. Please point out where someone was arrested for wearing an anti-bush T-shirt. The individual was likely arrested for disturbing the peace, obstruction of justice, or something like that-I HIGHLY doubt he was simply arrested for wearing a T shirt. Hell, there is more anti-Bush stuff out there, to include songs (whole albums done by KMFDM for instance), T shirts, bumper stickers, etc-I dont recall ANYONE being arrested simply for stating their dislike for a president. I dont see it now with Obama ether-and there are plenty of anti-Obama things out there too.
As to carrying an "automatic weapon"-sorry, thats an uneducated statement. He had a rifle, which he can lawfully posess. If he was too close, the secret service would ask him to leave. I do recall that story-and, much to the media's dismay, he didnt shoot anyone with his "automatic rifle". To own an automatic weapon, you need a permit. He had a rifle; one pull of the trigger, one fall of the hammer. But, I dont expect the media, or most of the populace to understand that, because to research something for themselves takes up WAY too much of their time...

EDIT: Found this article: Arrested For Wearing Anti-Bush T-shirts [Archive] - Rhythmism.com
Again, they were arrested for NOT going to where there was a designated protest-NOT for wearing the shirt.
I also found this-seems it works both ways... YouTube - ‪Man Arrested for Wearing McCain Shirt at Obama Victory Rally‬‏
But, again, he was asked to leave, and was publicly drunk-he was aksed to leave several times...and refused. You are asked to leave, you leave. They were doing crowd control-not picking on him for his shirt.

People always cry their rights are being violated-how many of us carry a copy of the Constitution with us? I do-you can get it for free. Read it-it may enlighten you (not anyone in particular here, just a statement in general). Your rights arent being violated when you are creating issues for those around you. The good of the PEOPLE, not just you.
And, in that video, he stated he was going home AFTER he was being arrested. Too late. They asked you to do that for over a minute, and you were being beligerent. I dont care who you support-act like a jerk, get arrested. Then, have your day in court.
 
Civil resistance is - in democratic society that was founded on a declaration that recognizes the people's right of revolution - a fundamental party of our history, heritage and culture. Without it the Vietnam War would probably still be going on and blacks in the south still wouldn't be able to vote.

"Legislating" protest denies the rights itemized in the Declaration of Independence and is used to effectively squash protests altogether. "Designated protest areas" (a 1/2 mile from the event, or out of sight of a media which only covers the protests that align with it's corporate philosophy) are simply a means of stifling dissent. We don't like it when China does this to it's citizens, why don't we object when the government does it here?

There are plenty of laws about disturbing the peace, etc. that could have been applied at the Jefferson Memorial. We certainly don't need more restrictions on behavior, with ever more subtle distinctions between acceptable and unacceptable behaviors (no dancing?!), especially as defined by government.

Better would have been not to make such a big deal about it. If it gets out of hand, fine, arrest them for disturbing the peace, drag them off to jail and fine them accordingly. The public will decide - if they are ever made aware of it - if the action was justified or not.
 
Bob Maxey said:
I think police need to do whatever they need to do to protect themselves and the public.

Here is the amazing thing: if you do not want to suffer at the hands of the police, do not be an ass. Do what the cops tell you to do and if you think they are in the wrong, go to court.
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don't be biased, we all know you have a law enforcement background. lifting that man up and then slamming him onto the concrete, followed by CHOKING him when his arms were up was UNACCEPTABLE. not necessary at all. if someone breaks the law, it doesn't give police officers the right to physically abuse them. the fact that you and darkjedi take an issue like this so lightly and valiantly defend excessive force by police for a non-violent crime disturbs me.

Dark Jedi said:
Better look again. Jefferson Memorial is federal government property. Thank you for playing. :rolleyes:
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it's ran by the national parks service, it's a public memorial. of course it's owned by the government, but it's a public area. and we have the right to assemble.

Dark Jedi said:
May 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals upheld the arrest and conviction, confirming a lower court's finding that "the Jefferson Memorial is a nonpublic forum reserved for the tranquil commemoration of [President] Jefferson's legacy"
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id say silently dancing is pretty tranquil... and ironically the original dancers were CELEBRATING PRESIDENT JEFFERSONS BIRTHDAY hahaha


lunatic59 said:
The law you are claiming is unreasonable is the same law that prevents me from showing up with 50 of my friends and having a barbecue on your front lawn at midnight ... or should I pack up the grill?
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no... its most definitely not the same law.
 
nlsme said:
About the burning the flag. That is the approved method of disposal for it.
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However . . . most flag burners could care less about the flag and what it represents. So do not confuse the proper way of disposing of the Red, White, and Blue with the protesters that burn the flag; their motives are much different.

Bob
 
Bob Maxey said:
However . . . most flag burners could care less about the flag and what it represents. So do not confuse the proper way of disposing of the Red, White, and Blue with the protesters that burn the flag; their motives are much different.

Bob
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Motive aside, it is their right.
 
Bob Maxey said:
The red, white, and blue flames; the hatred and public spectacle gives it away.
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US flag burning in foreign lands is another issue.

Flag burning here was a principle form of protest and dissent during the Vietnam war. Since the end of the war, the main cause of flag burnings has been protest over flag burning laws.
 
nlsme said:
About the burning the flag. That is the approved method of disposal for it.
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Not really. You as an individual can not burn a flag to dispose of it. You have to take it to a proper place. Like a military installation or to a group like the VFW. They will then give it the proper respect and hold a ceramony to burn it. I watched one once and brought a tear to my eye.

noah way said:
US flag burning in foreign lands is another issue.

Flag burning here was a principle form of protest and dissent during the Vietnam war. Since the end of the war, the main cause of flag burnings has been protest over flag burning laws.
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Anyone who would burn their own country's flag for protest shows no loyalty and respect for their nation. Should be shot on site. Too many brave soldiers both men and women since the birth of this nation have died defending this flag and our way of life. So its the ultimate insult to their memory. To have a citizen burn it and not a foe.
 
Dark Jedi said:
Not really. You as an individual can not burn a flag to dispose of it. You have to take it to a proper place. Like a military installation or to a group like the VFW. They will then give it the proper respect and hold a ceramony to burn it. I watched one once and brought a tear to my eye.
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Umm, wrong. The flag code says NOTHING about having to take it anywhere. It only states the proper method is to burn it. Plus, it may be a federal law, but there is NO punishment for not following it. NOT ONE person, has EVER been arrested for not following it. It is more of a guideline.

Dark Jedi said:
Anyone who would burn their own country's flag for protest shows no loyalty and respect for their nation. Should be shot on site. Too many brave soldiers both men and women since the birth of this nation have died defending this flag and our way of life. So its the ultimate insult to their memory. To have a citizen burn it and not a foe.
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So someone excercising their RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH, should be "shot on sight". Really? Is that not what those soldiers gave their life for?
 
noah way said:
US flag burning in foreign lands is another issue.

Flag burning here was a principle form of protest and dissent during the Vietnam war. Since the end of the war, the main cause of flag burnings has been protest over flag burning laws.
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Rather than speculate and post comments about flag burning, perhaps you should read this:

Proper Flag Disposal, Recycling and Tattered Flag Reporting - FlagRules

Bob

tommy_ed said:
couldn't have said it better myself...

you have the right to burn a flag if you want, but if you respect your country and those who've died for it, you'll take it somewhere to retire it properly
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When people read their history and what that flag represents, they begin to understand just how important the flag is and what it represents. So sad that so many consider Old Glory nothing more than something to print on a pair of Jokey Shorts or cocktail napkin.
 
USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the United States of America - United States Code

This code is the guide for all handling and display of the Stars and Stripes. It does not impose penalties for misuse of the United States Flag. That is left to the states and to the federal government for the District of Columbia. Each state has its own flag law. Criminal penalties for certain acts of desecration to the flag were contained in Title 18 of the United States Code prior to 1989. The Supreme Court decision in Texas v. Johnson; June 21, 1989, held the statute unconstitutional. This statute was amended when the Flag Protection Act of 1989 (Oct. 28, 1989) imposed a fine and/or up to I year in prison for knowingly mutilating, defacing, physically defiling, maintaining on the floor or trampling upon any flag of the United States. The Flag Protection Act of 1989 was struck down by the Supreme Court decision, United States vs. Eichman, decided on June 11, 1990.


Proper Flag Disposal, Recycling and Tattered Flag Reporting - FlagRules


  1. The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
By burning, nowhere there does it say that it has to be taken to a millitary base, or the VFW, or anywhere for that matter.
 
Please keep to the issues. Further personal attacks or comments will earn the poster an infraction as personal attacks violate the site rules. Someone here said that ignorance of the law is no excuse. The same applies here. Thank you.
 
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