Nope. Sprint now has duplicatable fail Epic GPS modes under condition it should work in and they are trying to get samsung to fix it.
-
After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.
Buyer beware... EPIC GPS DOESN'T work
- Thread starter njnygiants
- Start date
-
- Tags
- samsung epic 4g
My Epic's GPS will eventually lock on, but it takes several minutes every time. Using GPSTest, it will report actually seeing ~11 satellites, but 'using' 0. Finally after 3-5 minutes, it will start to use a few and eventually go up to using 9 or so.
It wouldn't be that big of a deal, except my iPhone 3G (what I'm replacing with the Epic) locks on in about 5 seconds, no matter if I've had the phone off or not. And that phone is 2+ years old. Certainly GPS technology hasn't reverted...
It wouldn't be that big of a deal, except my iPhone 3G (what I'm replacing with the Epic) locks on in about 5 seconds, no matter if I've had the phone off or not. And that phone is 2+ years old. Certainly GPS technology hasn't reverted...
To be fair, thats not what he said. He said "GPS wasn't really designed for use indoors." which, as far as I know, is a completely true statement.
Now, plenty of GPS devices can and do work indoors, but there's no guarantee.
The problem with the Epic (one of them, anyway) appears to be one of sensitivity. Reports that the Epic seems to be 5db to 10db less sensitive then most other phones are pretty consistent. (I've seen this myself, check some of my other posts.) This is probably why the Epic will fail to pick up as many satellites (if any) as other devices in the same location. This is especially noticeable indoors, where the signal strength is going to be lower.
On the sensitivity note: I agree with another poster in these forums: The lack of sensitivity is probably a hardware issue and is unlikely to be fixed.
This isn't the first time someone has claimed that Sprint has acknowledged the problem and is supposedly talking to Samsung about it. Thing is, no one has provided any evidence of this other than "I spoke to someone that works for Sprint tech support and they said...". I'd be a lot happier if this acknowledgment was made in print or somewhere on the Sprint website / forums by an actual Sprint representative.
So, anyone have any links to support this claim?
mine locks in 5 secs or so. acurracy is still not absolutely super but it does lock in less than 30 secs. and uses most if not all the sats in view. I think its area specific that causes some of the problems.
Shane112358
Member
I tried GPS (wireless off) the other day and it seems to track me using My Tracks pretty well as I walked back and forth about 20 feet in the parking lot.
I went for a 2 mile run today and also ran My Tracks. Wireless was ON this time. But, the tracks are pretty darn accurate so I think I had a GPS fix. It could tell which side of the 1-lane street I was running on.
I went for a 2 mile run today and also ran My Tracks. Wireless was ON this time. But, the tracks are pretty darn accurate so I think I had a GPS fix. It could tell which side of the 1-lane street I was running on.
Assuming of course you get reception in that concrete bunker.
Then how do you explain all the people reporting that theirs works perfectly fine?
I didn't say there isn't a problem. What I said is that some are having problems and some are not. Which is what leads to all the hostility and anger in these threads.
Shane112358
Member
OK, I'm changing my tune. There is definitely a problem. I turned wireless off and drove around. I can see 8-11 birds in the sky and average about 8 of them being used for positioning. This is with GPS Test by the way. The SN ratio for them hang around mid 20's to low 30's, and never peaking above the high 30s. The accuracy....98.4 feet. Yup. It's a relatively cloudy day and granted, there is a forest fire burning about 4 miles from my house but still.
I then did a walk test in my parking lot. I slowly walked a square using My Tracks about 8m on each side. I set the resolution in My Tracks as high as possible. Here is a photo showing what My Tracks thought I walked vs. what I actually walked.
I can't imagine it being area specific. I don't know much about GPS or satellites in general, but shouldn't I have about the same view of satellites in Chicago that someone would have in say... Memphis or Omaha? Its not like we're on vastly different parts of the globe that you'd be able to lock on < 30 seconds, and it takes me 4 minutes.
And no, I'm not surrounded by buildings or trees or anything else that blocks my view of the sky. Like I said, it can 'see' the satellites, just doesn't 'use' them for a few minutes.
well look at satellite tv, when i lived in boston, i had dish network, no problem with signal, couldn't understand what people complained about. moved to florida and the dish goes out in every rain storm.
Assuming of course you get reception in that concrete bunker.
Then how do you explain all the people reporting that theirs works perfectly fine?
I didn't say there isn't a problem. What I said is that some are having problems and some are not. Which is what leads to all the hostility and anger in these threads.
Most likely the entire line has the same problem. Those in optimum conditions will get the good results posted here and in the other threads. Add in marginal conditions as some have been experiencing and the results become a little more iffy.
Through reading these threads and paying attention to a couple of specific posters here with obvious gps knowledge there is more than one problem with the Epic's gps. First one being the low SNR. Everyone is affected by this. Any other recent device that can be compared to will get you SNR in the low 40 range ( minimum high 30 for several) for at least one or two birds among the 8 or so in use when in optimum conditions. I havent seen one post of an epic reaching that number.
Based on this it SEEMS to be a poor implemetation of antenna.
The reason why this is so critical is once SNR drops too low, it will be below the threshold for which to phone to lock and make use where other devices still will function. This would seem to be a hardware issue.
The second problem is (seems to be) with the phone obtaining, or using, current almanac and ephemeris data. These give the phone the information needed to determine what satellites to look for and information needed to calculate the phones position. If the phone is not able to receive, does not update, or uses old information the phone will not be able to provide the location. This problem seems intermittent and a reboot appears to clear it up. Based on the reboot, this could be software related.
Much of this information came from this post http://androidforums.com/1536747-post142.html for those who are inclined to persue in depth.
I am in no way suggesting 'I KNOW WHATS GOING ON' Ive gleaned my understanding, and I may be way off base, by those here with greater knowledge and been good enough to share thier viewpoints despite the hostility. As far as the hostility, too many are taking it personal that the potential top-dog device has flaws, and to some, VERY serious flaws.
That is my point though. I wasn't saying there is no issue with the GPS. I was saying that some people are having problems and some people are not. Saying "GPS doesn't work" doesn't really work in this situation. "GPS has issues", yes. "GPS doesn't work", no. Plenty of people have working GPS's on their Epic, or atleast working to their standards.
What these threads turn into is one said screaming "GPS doesn't work!" because theirs doesn't and another side screaming "GPS does work!" because theirs does. Half the posters seem to take it as a personal insult if someone has a different experience with the same item as them, whether it be a negative or positive experience. This thread has hit this pattern multiple times already. It's much better to state that some people have problems and some don't.
Does the Epic GPS have issues? Most likely. Samsung has already admitted the Galaxy S line has issues, and never really said the Epic was completely fixed (they said it was tested, not completely fixed).
IMO, for what its worth, maybe the OP's sensational title shouldn't be such a blanket statement. On the other hand, the pure enthusiast with experience with more than just this particular phone may well feel that the title is an apt description. An enthusiast isnt going to take into consideration that others may be satisfied with what he considers as subpar performance. You also have to consider that if the OP were in nominal conditions his gps may not have worked at all, and this exact thing has been reported on several forums.
You hit the nail on the head. No matter, the OP doesnt appear to be active in this thread any more, however a few others with the technical expertise have taken up the conversation. No reason they should take the hit for the sensational title. It is up to all participants to decide if they want to be objective and set aside brand or device loyalty, read up and actually take the time to try to understand what others are saying without becomming upset.
You hit the nail on the head. No matter, the OP doesnt appear to be active in this thread any more, however a few others with the technical expertise have taken up the conversation. No reason they should take the hit for the sensational title. It is up to all participants to decide if they want to be objective and set aside brand or device loyalty, read up and actually take the time to try to understand what others are saying without becomming upset.
boomerbubba
Android Enthusiast
Just to be clear, Samsung has never actually admitted anything, but that is not so important in the short run. At least they promised to "optimize" the GPS generally. And on the Epic, they went further than just saying it was tested. They said it was "tested and validated."
Certainly, despite this statement, the Epic has some GPS bugs. But under the principle of Hanlon's Razor, it cannot yet be said that Samsung deliberately lied.
From what we in the user community know, and some have established objectively, the Epic's symptoms seem to be new and specific to the Sprint product. That does not mean the Epic still shares all the GPS symptoms of the other Galaxy S platforms. In my own testing and the reports of others' testing the Epic, I do not find a pattern of serious, actual inaccuracy. But I have seen that evidence when the other variants have been tested.
And, in my opinion so far -- with three weeks left on my 30-day trial -- the problems documented to date may not comprise a hard stop so long as they get fixed. Some official assurance from Samsung or Sprint committing to fix them might help keep some customers. (I already returned two Vibrants to T-Mobile and cancelled my contract renewal over the GPS issue as well as the vendors' less-than-complete commitment to stand behind the product.)
Wow, what a thread. Read almost all of the posts then just got tired.
I'll add this little tidbit for what it's worth. My GPS works fine outside. However, inside...not so good. My buddy is visiting and has the Motorola Droid and gets GPS in my apartment (apartment is below ground in a three story building). Mine, sitting 4 feet away from him, doesn't. No biggie. But compared to my former phone, the Palm Pre, this thing is a godsend. My Pre would "gestimate" my location within 3249 feet (actual number, using either just GPS or Towers) whereas this phone is within a couple FEET. So, I have no complaints.
I'll add this little tidbit for what it's worth. My GPS works fine outside. However, inside...not so good. My buddy is visiting and has the Motorola Droid and gets GPS in my apartment (apartment is below ground in a three story building). Mine, sitting 4 feet away from him, doesn't. No biggie. But compared to my former phone, the Palm Pre, this thing is a godsend. My Pre would "gestimate" my location within 3249 feet (actual number, using either just GPS or Towers) whereas this phone is within a couple FEET. So, I have no complaints.
I tried my GPS using Google Maps and it worked without a problem. I set the destination to my home using my Epic and my Garmin Nuvi 255. The Epic was spot on with my Nuvi except there were some occasions when the Epic picked a slightly different route but re-calculated the course and was again matching my Nuvi. The only other thing about the Epic was the voice directions weren't near as clear as my Nuvi.
I really don't need to use my phone for the GPS but at the cost of these phones it should work flawlessly for everyone.
I really don't need to use my phone for the GPS but at the cost of these phones it should work flawlessly for everyone.
Shane112358
Member
OK, the GPS on the Epic is officially crap.
Here is a snapshot from My Tracks. The first run, the one on top, is from earlier this week with WiFi networks *on*. (edit: I meant wireless) It's surprisingly accurate.
The second run, the one on bottom, is the exact same run with WiFi networks off. (edit: I meant wireless) This needs to be fixed within 30 days or the phone goes back....what a joke.
Note: I'm assuming that the GPS lost signal or My Tracks stopped recording at some point in the second run. But the first part of the run should be exactly the same, and obviously it isn't.
Here is a snapshot from My Tracks. The first run, the one on top, is from earlier this week with WiFi networks *on*. (edit: I meant wireless) It's surprisingly accurate.
The second run, the one on bottom, is the exact same run with WiFi networks off. (edit: I meant wireless) This needs to be fixed within 30 days or the phone goes back....what a joke.
Note: I'm assuming that the GPS lost signal or My Tracks stopped recording at some point in the second run. But the first part of the run should be exactly the same, and obviously it isn't.
boomerbubba
Android Enthusiast
OK, the GPS on the Epic is officially crap.
Here is a snapshot from My Tracks. The first run, the one on top, is from earlier this week with WiFi networks *on*. It's surprisingly accurate.
The second run, the one on bottom, is the exact same run with WiFi networks off. This needs to be fixed within 30 days or the phone goes back....what a joke.
Note: I'm assuming that the GPS lost signal or My Tracks stopped recording at some point in the second run. But the first part of the run should be exactly the same, and obviously it isn't.
Of all the tracks reported about the Epic GPS, this is the first one I have seen that make me cringe. This does not seem to be a simple problem with tracking accuracy. It is as if the second track started in the wrong place enteirely, then the whole track was offset accordingly. When the second track was run, what was the phone showing about satellite locks?
I doubt that toggling the "Use wireless networks" setting had anything to do with it, unless it was the first track that was in the wrong place! But obviously you would have told us if that were true.
Maybe it would help us if you uploaded the My Tracks tracks to Google My Maps and then posted a link to the actual tracks, instead of just posting an image.
Shane112358
Member
Track 5 - Google Maps
Actually it's showing that GPS either didn't lock or it didn't start recording until partway into the run. But yeah it sucks.
I didn't look at the lock today. But yesterday I was driving around more or less the same neighborhood and I could see 10+ birds in the sky, using 8 or so. S/N ratios around 25-35.
Shane112358
Member
Where do I start?
For one, I live in Colorado and like to go hiking. No cell reception in the mountains. I want to use this to track my hikes.
For two, I like to travel. Unfortunately, since I'm not on GSM I am pretty limited in where I can get data with this phone. Taking it to Europe as a GPS device is not going to work.
For three, as accurate as it looks, it's not as accurate as GPS would/should be.
Lastly, it's just the principle alone.
boomerbubba
Android Enthusiast
Thanks, I get that now. What is the setting your My Tracks for "Minimum Accuracy" ("Recording will be paused if your position is not at least this accurate")? If the accuracy of your GPS was FUBAR during the second run, which seems apparent, that would explain why My Tracks truncated the track.
Shane112358
Member
656 feet. :-(
Shane112358
Member
I just did another walk test using My Tracks outside. Always had between 6 and 10 satellites *in use* during this walk, about a 1/4 mile long. It was all on a sidewalk and I held the phone out in front of me (instead of on my armband like I do with my runs)
By my rough estimation from looking at the graph, it was ranging between 3 and 30 feet off - averaging about 15 feet off. Not as horrible as this morning but it should be better.
By my rough estimation from looking at the graph, it was ranging between 3 and 30 feet off - averaging about 15 feet off. Not as horrible as this morning but it should be better.