California Prop 19, Legalize Marijuana? Vote Yes, or Vote No?

[Bob Maxey]

The only reason it hurts people is because it is illegal. Importation and buying your dope from some criminal happens because it is not available by legal or practical means. By making it easily accessible to responsible adults we are putting these people out of a job, thus making it harder to get for underage smokers.

As for the alcohol, i have some interesting statistics to share with you:

in the year 2000:
85,000 alcohol related deaths
365,000 deaths contributed to poor diet or physical inactivity
32,000 deaths due to adverse reactions to prescription drugs

how many for marijuana?
0 (zero) - and not just for that year. For all of recorded history.

So what other reason would you have for wanting it to be illegal. Acohol is much much worse than marijuana. It seems like your only justification is that you like alcohol. Well, some people prefer a healthier way to relax. Why shouldn't they be able to do it? It's not hurting anyone, and if it does it's SIGNIFICANTLY less than alcohol or prescription drug abuse

I have a stat for you.

440,000 deaths annually from smoking. I am not sure if that is accurate; it came from the American Lung Association web site and as you can guess, they don't know a damn thing about the lungs and effects of smoking.

Your posted stats are useless without explanation and sources. Not everything you copy and paste and immediately post from WrongIPedia is accurate. As for zero deaths due to MJ, God, you are ignorant if you truly believe that cow flop.

By the way, your supposed facts about deaths in the year should frighten you because if you think the stat you posted "365,000 deaths contributed to poor diet or physical inactivity" will lower when the stoner rate increases, you are simple and silly.

Millions upon millions, perhaps even tens of millions have consumed alcohol for a hell of a long time without adverse effects. You can't say the same for MJ use. Smoking is smoking regardless of the plant and despite the utter Cow Flop you have allowed to take root in your brain, saying MJ is absolutely safe is utter silliness because you have zero knowledge about the subject. BTW, I am not an expert either.

Bob Maxey

 

[tommy_ed]

I am not sure the black market would disappear. We bought plenty of booze from Canada during prohibition, so who knows just how many people would travel to sunny California to buy the stuff.

You're actually proving my point in a way. The criminal problem is STILL being created by the prohibition of marijuana

the lack of a breathalyzer type device for marijuana doesn't equate to zero marijuana related deaths.

Babysitter charged in toddler's death | charged, babysitter, toddler - Break - Jacksonville Daily News

That literally took less than a second to find. There are plenty of marijuana related deaths. However, without a portable detection device, like a breathalyzer, it's hard to determine which deaths are marijuana related, and which are not.

true, but I can tell you one thing - you are nowhere near as impaired high as you are drunk. not to mention there is no way to overdose on marijuana. And its an anti-violent drug.

I will answer it....

You smoking pot in the privacy of your own home does not hurt me. Neither does you smoking crack, or meth, in the privacy of your own home. Neither does you smoking cigs in your home affect me. It still doesn't mean it should be legal. Just like cigs though, they don't stay in the privacy of your own home. People still smoke cigs in public, throw their buts out the window, in public, and while I applaud the anti-smoking laws in resturants, it still doesn't stop people from smoking in parks where I take my kids to play.[quote/]

So please don't pretend you can somehow ISOLATE it, you can't.

smoking in parks where your kids play? outside? I don't think someone smoking OUTSIDE is going to affect your kids playing unless the guy is literally holding them in his arms. If that is the only rebuttal to my question you can come up with, then i'll consider my point made there. No, it doesn't mean it should be legal, but why should it be illegal? no one has given me a legitimate reason why.

And FWIW - you came on here with so go smoke a bowl, install an advanced task killer and just remember, I have the law on my side, you don't.

and look what you came on here with:

I say no for the simple reason that it enrages potheads.... boo hoo, you can't smoke, let me tell you how much sleep I lose over that...

You were asking to be called out on that.

For your information, since you seem to be obsessed with my personal life - I don't smoke. Earlier in my life I smoked pot pretty much on a daily basis. Then one day I just decided I didn't enjoy it as much as I used to. So I quit. I will always support marijuana. It made me care more about other people, enabled me to put myself in someone else's shoes if you will. Also made me realize how unimportant material things are in life, and how they shouldnt constitute happiness. Sounds like you REALLY need to try it. You sound miserable.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I will answer it....

You smoking pot in the privacy of your own home does not hurt me. Neither does you smoking crack, or meth, in the privacy of your own home. Neither does you smoking cigs in your home affect me. It still doesn't mean it should be legal. Just like cigs though, they don't stay in the privacy of your own home. People still smoke cigs in public, throw their buts out the window, in public, and while I applaud the anti-smoking laws in resturants, it still doesn't stop people from smoking in parks where I take my kids to play.

I might suggest that meth and crack do affect me regardless of where the abuser decides to use it. Users get hooked and they need to support a habit that is costly, so crime is often required.

Bob Maxey

 

[Bob Maxey]

This should do.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.p...rol_and_Tax_Cannabis_Act_of_2010"_(California)

I take back my thanks, the link is broken or malformed. LOL!!!

I know it is Proposition 19, so I can likely find it. thank You.

Bob Maxey

 

[tommy_ed]

I have a stat for you.

440,000 deaths annually from smoking. I am not sure if that is accurate; it came from the American Lung Association web site and as you can guess, they don't know a damn thing about the lungs and effects of smoking.

cigarettes are also LOADED with man made chemicals. Marijuana is natural. Point disproven.

Your posted stats are useless without explanation and sources. Not everything you copy and paste and immediately post from WrongIPedia is accurate. As for zero deaths due to MJ, God, you are ignorant if you truly believe that cow flop.

zero deaths by marijuana DIRECTLY. for example - overdose. Post one example. The exact numbers of my stats aren't really neccessary, as everyone knows the number of alcohol/prescription drug deaths are MUCH higher than pot.

Millions upon millions, perhaps even tens of millions have consumed alcohol for a hell of a long time without adverse effects. You can't say the same for MJ use. Smoking is smoking regardless of the plant and despite the utter Cow Flop you have allowed to take root in your brain, saying MJ is absolutely safe is utter silliness because you have zero knowledge about the subject. BTW, I am not an expert either.

here are some articles that disagree with you. Make sure to check out that last one. Here is an excerpt: "The point that pot is harmless like alcohol is also untrue. Alcohol is not harmless. It resulted in 85,000 deaths in the United States, in 2000. Contrast that with the zero deaths caused by marijuana."

Alcohol, Tobacco Worse Than Illegal Drugs? - CBS News

Developing Brains: Alcohol Worse than Marijuana

Alcohol worse than marijuana | Kansan.com

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Actually, not everyone in CA smokes MJ. And . . . age is by no means a judge of maturity; the list of drunks killing people is too long to post here. You must be 21, but, now that it is legal (if this screwball law passes) it will be readily available to kids.

Bob Maxey

I don't smoke MJ at all and it may differ in the USA but here in BC back in highschool it was far far easier to get our hands on MJ than it was tabacco and alcohol that was properly regulated...

Lots and lots of kids would sell for different dealers.

 

[mcatdtDROID]

I might suggest that meth and crack do affect me regardless of where the abuser decides to use it. Users get hooked and they need to support a habit that is costly, so crime is often required.

Bob Maxey

I'm on your side.... me drinking Dr. Peppers in the privacy of my own home affects you. no one is completely isolated.

And pot has a negative society consequence, just like cigs and meth and crack. Some have more than others, but they all have some.

 

[mcatdtDROID]

I don't smoke MJ at all and it may differ in the USA but here in BC back in highschool it was far far easier to get our hands on MJ than it was tabacco and alcohol that was properly regulated...

Lots and lots of kids would sell for different dealers.

I'd argue that even today...

 

[Bob Maxey]

cigarettes are also LOADED with man made chemicals. Marijuana is natural. Point disproven.

zero deaths by marijuana DIRECTLY. for example - overdose. Post one example. The exact numbers of my stats aren't really neccessary, as everyone knows the number of alcohol/prescription drug deaths are MUCH higher than pot.

here are some articles that disagree with you. Make sure to check out that last one. Here is an excerpt: "The point that pot is harmless like alcohol is also untrue. Alcohol is not harmless. It resulted in 85,000 deaths in the United States, in 2000. Contrast that with the zero deaths caused by marijuana."

Alcohol, Tobacco Worse Than Illegal Drugs? - CBS News

Developing Brains: Alcohol Worse than Marijuana

Alcohol worse than marijuana | Kansan.com

We can trade links all day and still, nothing useful will come of it. The last link you asked me to check out carries the byline: "Conor McCartney is a Madison, Wis., sophomore in Pre-medicine."

So much for expert sources. Not a staff writer just a writer; certainly no credentials to speak of. Not to mention, a tad light on the sources for her statements.

The second link describes a study of teens and alcohol. So what? do we punish responsible adults because of teen abuse? From the page you posted, try this:

Heavy marijuana use may damage developing brain in teens, young adults

Apparently, there is a study that tells us MJ damages young brains

Research finds that marijuana use takes toll on adolescent brain function

Apparently, there is a study that says MJ takes its toll of adolescent brain function.

Again, it is rather useless to trade links because every positive you state can be countered.

As for chemical content. Not all natural chemicals are safe and not all man made chemicals are bad. So your point not yet made. Cyanide and other deadly chemicals exist in chocolate, so what is your point?

We know the death rate from prescription drugs is rather high. But you did not tell us much about those deaths. How many deaths came from mixing drugs, or taking someone else's drugs, bad doctors who failed to do a complete medical history before prescribing drugs, or on and on and on. You certainly do not know.

Bob Maxey

 

[mcatdtDROID]

cigs are tobacco.... Tobacco is natural

 

[riffdex]

If it passes, I believe that it will immediately be put down because of federal drug laws. Also... it would cause a HUGE problem with other states because of much easier trafficking. I just see painful lawsuits coming to CA... which is something we don't need.

This is true (the first thing you said). Whether or not California repeals their own laws against marijuana, it is still a federal offence. You essentially said that any change to the CA law will be useless, because of the federal law. Then you said the ballot initiative would increase the trafficking problem. How could a ballot initiative that essentially changes nothing have such an effect? Either the initiative passes and the feds take a laid back approach to the federal laws (potentially causing more trafficking problems), or the feds strictly enforce the marijuana laws (changing nothing). I'm wondering also, oh what grounds do you think CA could be sued?

 

[dark4181]

I've not been on this site for long, but this is my first time being in disagreement with Mr. Maxey...

I don't smoke, personally. But I do feel that if someone wants to smoke MJ, it is their right to do so, provided they do so in a responsible manner. In the event of irresponsible use of MJ, naturally, harsh penalties should be dealt, such as with alcohol abuse now.

However, I do not think that MJ should be smoked. Smoke + lungs = cancer. Bake it into food, or go with vaporization. Both are safer.

Side note: I believe that tobacco companies should be forced to go 'all natural' with their "products" ..It's the smoke and the unnatural chemicals in cigarettes that do most of the damage. Moving to vaporization, rather than burning, would also be good.

So yea, I support legalization, even though I don't live in Cali.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I've not been on this site for long, but this is my first time being in disagreement with Mr. Maxey...

I don't smoke, personally. But I do feel that if someone wants to smoke MJ, it is their right to do so, provided they do so in a responsible manner. In the event of irresponsible use of MJ, naturally, harsh penalties should be dealt, such as with alcohol abuse now.

However, I do not think that MJ should be smoked. Smoke + lungs = cancer. Bake it into food, or go with vaporization. Both are safer.

Side note: I believe that tobacco companies should be forced to go 'all natural' with their "products" ..It's the smoke and the unnatural chemicals in cigarettes that do most of the damage. Moving to vaporization, rather than burning, would also be good.

So yea, I support legalization, even though I don't live in Cali.

When I was in Egypt for a week in the summer it was interesting going to Hookha bars. If you haven't experienced such a thing it's a big bong looking contraption with water in it and they put in flavoured tabacco (whatever flavour you want) and you smoke it out of the massive contraption. Very clean tasting, non chemical and very relaxed unlike cigarettes or cigars.

Not promoting... just adding to the "natural smoking" you were speaking of.

 

[byteware]

true, but I can tell you one thing - you are nowhere near as impaired high as you are drunk.

Every independent analysis, that I've read over the years, shows they both impair you in the same ways, which means that the impairment would be the same.

Now keep in mind, if you tend to drink 20 beers a night, or smoke a room full of marijuana then 1 joint or 1 beer isn't going to effect you much.

However, similar use patterns provide similar impairment.

Marijuana impairs your motor coordination, your reaction time, and your cognitive ability.

In other words, it takes longer to realize you need to react, it's more difficult to determine how to react, and it's more difficult to get your body to do what you've finally decide you need to.

 

[byteware]

I take back my thanks, the link is broken or malformed. LOL!!!

I know it is Proposition 19, so I can likely find it. thank You.

Bob Maxey

Fixed the link. That was weird. It inserted the [/url] tag INSIDE the url.

 

[ElasticNinja]

how many for marijuana?
0 (zero) - and not just for that year. For all of recorded history.

Cancer.

 

[Isthmus]

That's not exactly true.

The Federal government only has power over certain things. I.E. Interstate Commerce.

If they can keep the commerce inside the state of California, then the Federal Government (theoretically) doesn't have jurisdiction.

Then I suggest you read the text of the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 and review the rights given to the Drug Enforcement Agency to enforce it. While you are at it you might want to review all the constitutional challenges that it has withstood during the 40 years it has been in effect.

Not only does the US government have the legal right to regulate the use, production and distribution of marijuana, but it also has the right to criminalize this, and regardless of what arm-chair constitutional analysts would like to think, the actual US supreme court has upheld that right.

Therefore I restate my prior point. California Can choose to legalize it, but so long as the US federal government chooses to enforce federal law criminalizing marijuana, there is little california can do other than intentionally not comply (ie, look the other way).

 

[tommy_ed]

And pot has a negative society consequence, just like cigs and meth and crack. Some have more than others, but they all have some.

So if they all have cons, and this particular issue has more pro's than cons compared to cigarettes, meth or crack (Not healthy but definitely less harmful) why should it be the only one that is illegal?

As for chemical content. Not all natural chemicals are safe and not all man made chemicals are bad. So your point not yet made. Cyanide and other deadly chemicals exist in chocolate, so what is your point?

so you're saying chocolate is just as harmful as cigarettes? There are A LOT more harmful chemicals in cigarettes

cigs are tobacco.... Tobacco is natural

if you think the only thing in cigarettes is tobacco you are naive

Every independent analysis, that I've read over the years, shows they both impair you in the same ways, which means that the impairment would be the same.

studies and analysis' are good and all, but as a firsthand user of both for many years, I can PROMISE you... alcohol will impair you much more.

Cancer.

Diet coke can give you cancer. Burnt toast can give you cancer. Should those be illegal?

No one has yet to give me a legitimate reason why it should remain illegal. It would be nice if there was a way to tell for sure if someone is driving impaired, but we have this same problem with prescription drugs (which are much more harmful to your body by the way). I'm sure it wouldn't be legal to smoke indoors, and smoking outdoors wouldnt really affect non-smokers.

I'd say health issues don't have anything to do with this discussion anyway. It's up to you whether you want to do it. Just like cigarettes, pills, and cheeseburgers.

You guys should do a little research into why it was made illegal in the first place. It's a great tale of crooked politics and racism. Then do some research on how much money we waste every year trying to control it. And also how much we could be making off of it.

 

[byteware]

Then I suggest you read the text of the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 and review the rights given to the Drug Enforcement Agency to enforce it. While you are at it you might want to review all the constitutional challenges that it has withstood during the 40 years it has been in effect.

The Court has a different make up today. There is a big enough majority that those powers would be overturned.

The explanation for the Federal government having those powers is that if you grew marijuana in your house for your own personal use, it is possible for you to sell it on the interstate market, where the federal government has regulatory powers.

More than half the court believes this is an unconstitutional extensions of the commerce clause, which gives the federal government unlimited power to regulate ANYTHING.

Not only does the US government have the legal right to regulate the use, production and distribution of marijuana, but it also has the right to criminalize this, and regardless of what arm-chair constitutional analysts would like to think, the actual US supreme court has upheld that right.

See above. It HAS upheld that right, but I don't think THIS court WOULD uphold that right.

Therefore I restate my prior point. California Can choose to legalize it, but so long as the US federal government chooses to enforce federal law criminalizing marijuana, there is little california can do other than intentionally not comply (ie, look the other way).

It's not as simple as that.

 

[riffdex]

Cancer.

There's no conclusive evidence that marijuana causes lung cancer. Also, there are studies indicating that marijuana can significantly slow down tumor growth.

 

[rwrife]

I don't know about where you live, but where I live I never hear about someone causing a ten car pile up or any kind of car crash because they were driving high. Yet it is almost a weekly occurrence that someone crashes while driving drunk. Marijuana is much safer than alcohol yet it is illegal whereas alcohol is legal. Also doesn't the proposition say that you have to be 21 to buy it? So you have somewhat of a mature person smoking it. Meaning they won't go driving around while they are high, unless they are ******ed. Marijuana poses not real threat to society. I mean, everyone in California smokes it anyway, might as well tax it to make some money off of it.

The difference, I think, is that people smoke pot to get high, not everyone drinks alcohol to get drunk....so the final outcome based on per capita consumption is different and thus one has a much higher chance of resulting in accidental death or injury.

 

[rwrife]

I don't know about where you live, but where I live I never hear about someone causing a ten car pile up or any kind of car crash because they were driving high. Yet it is almost a weekly occurrence that someone crashes while driving drunk. Marijuana is much safer than alcohol yet it is illegal whereas alcohol is legal. Also doesn't the proposition say that you have to be 21 to buy it? So you have somewhat of a mature person smoking it. Meaning they won't go driving around while they are high, unless they are ******ed. Marijuana poses not real threat to society. I mean, everyone in California smokes it anyway, might as well tax it to make some money off of it.

Should have mentioned that the govt doesn't actively track accidents that are caused by people under the influence of illegal substances so it's hard to tell if pot is safer than alcohol.

 

[zauper]

I'm not sure the composition has changed enough since Gonzales v Raich, but it may have.

 

[ElasticNinja]

There's no conclusive evidence that marijuana causes lung cancer.

I would be incredibly surprised if Marijuana isnt as bad for the lungs as smoking

Also, there are studies indicating that marijuana can significantly slow down tumor growth.

Interesting

___

BTW while I dont really have much an opinion on this, I feel more inclined to the pro-legalisation side

 

[mcatdtDROID]

The only thing intersting is how studies can be made up to support any agenda. Of course propot supporters will spout that studies have shown.....

There are also studies that show afro americans lead the nation in violent crimes...
hitler also used studies that showed jews were he cause of all germanys problems

Studies to back agendas are also known as propaganda