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Data throttling

Rico ANDROID said:
DJ, you know the buzz is "not"just about whether or not you can still "connect" to the data when its throttled. Thats the "technicality" the carrier use to say "i said you have data,,but I didnt promise you speed"... in their ads , they DO promise speed as the NATIONS FASTEST NETWORK and as fir verizon "ROOLING THE AIR". So if they want to fall back on saying "we never promised you speed"... Then they need to now cjange their false advertisements too
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No they are the worlds fastest network when compared to other networks. Another car comparison lol . You have a Bugatti Veron basically the fastest production car on the market as to date. They can make the claim its the worlds fastest production car. When a person buys the car unless they are like a certified race car driver or take a course at bugatti you dont get the little key that unlocks all the horsepower. So can they claim its the worlds fastest even though you cant have all the speed at your foot pressing the gas pedal?
 
Rico ANDROID said:
....And if there "is" a need for some sort.of throttling, this would be more palatable for many over a complete halt till the next billing cycle.
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Yes it would and I think it would make many more happy than how ATT does it. You wouldnt feel like a criminal that is serving a month long jail term lol. This way everyone will get the same speeds depending on congestion on the towers. Still you will have some that will still complain but it wouldnt be as much or as often. Amazing how we can work out our differences with out outside interference :eek:.
 
AntimonyER said:
Even if the carriers had a bandwidth problem, the way they went about fixing it, was very misleading to customers. By allowing people to be grandfathered in to their unlimited plans, the implication was since you are a loyal customer, we will allow you to keep your unlimited plan in return for you renewing your contract. But a lot of those customers are NOT getting the same experience they had before they signed the new contract, they are now getting throttled at 3GB (was 2GB last couple months apparently). THe truth is, AT&T most likely knew that even with the introduction of tiered data, their network wasn't going to be adequate for the demand. They could have been honest, and switched everyone to tiered upon contract renewal, or stated up front that the unlimited would be switched to a T-Mobile style "unlimited" for grandfathered customers. But that would have caused a large number of people not to renew, so instead they hid behind their old plan, and when their available bandwidth started dwindling, used the small print in the contracts to alter the status quo. Not illegal, not a violation of contract, but misleading for sure.
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Agreed, the carriers should have been up front about what changes were going on. Both AT&T and VZW were offering deals that would allow you to pay for tiered plans with higher limits for $30 than the throttling cap on unlimited. VZW was offering 4GB for $30 as a promotion. AT&T's plan is $30 for 3GB AT&T has changed the throttling cap and I don't know when the VZW promotion ends but either way it seems they are favoring the tiered customers over the "loyal" customers that have been grandfathered into unlimited plans...
 
Rico ANDROID said:
Then I think ive read that verizon throttles at the "tower specific" level when a tower is congested it slows down, but just for the time of congestion.
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This is correct. I've read it somewhere (maybe even VZW's TOS). They flag you as a heavy user for the current and subsequent billing cycles as a potential throttling target.

If you are using a busy tower, when that tower is busy, and you have been flagged for throttling, your data will be slowed only enough to provide adequate data speeds to all of the users on the tower at the time of congestion.

When I read that, it sounds more like network management through a throttling policy that is dynamic in its flagging and implementation. I would bet that many VZW users have been throttled and didn't even know it. The AT&T model seems more arbitrary and punitive.

Just my opinion.:rolleyes:
 
Yeahha said:
Agreed, the carriers should have been up front about what changes were going on. Both AT&T and VZW were offering deals that would allow you to pay for tiered plans with higher limits for $30 than the throttling cap on unlimited. VZW was offering 4GB for $30 as a promotion. AT&T's plan is $30 for 3GB AT&T has changed the throttling cap and I don't know when the VZW promotion ends but either way it seems they are favoring the tiered customers over the "loyal" customers that have been grandfathered into unlimited plans...
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Thats because they can control the tiered customers. If they go over their allotted amount of data. They have to pay more in overage fees. Where as grandfathered unlimited data customers there is no fail safes to keep them in line. Thats why they like the tiered people more.
 
AntimonyER said:
Even if the carriers had a bandwidth problem, the way they went about fixing it, was very misleading to customers. By allowing people to be grandfathered in to their unlimited plans, the implication was since you are a loyal customer, we will allow you to keep your unlimited plan in return for you renewing your contract. But a lot of those customers are NOT getting the same experience they had before they signed the new contract, they are now getting throttled at 3GB (was 2GB last couple months apparently). THe truth is, AT&T most likely knew that even with the introduction of tiered data, their network wasn't going to be adequate for the demand. They could have been honest, and switched everyone to tiered upon contract renewal, or stated up front that the unlimited would be switched to a T-Mobile style "unlimited" for grandfathered customers. But that would have caused a large number of people not to renew, so instead they hid behind their old plan, and when their available bandwidth started dwindling, used the small print in the contracts to alter the status quo. Not illegal, not a violation of contract, but misleading for sure.
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Thank you for that! Its all about the carrier pulling the wool over its customers eyes instead of being up front.. For attt, it took a law suit to force them to finaly tell its customers something, anything about just "how" are we being selected as the top five percent. Now that its revealed and under the bridge, you are also correct im that the carriers knew full well their NETWORK is whats inadequate, not some data shortage. Thats like saying we are running out of air. The carriers are pidhimg out new devices before their network is ready. Take lte , its not yet congested because they only have a small percent using devices that hit the network.


Also the fastest network war...each claim superiority over the other but it depends on what you have available ehere you live and work. All boils down to updating the outdated systems and being honest with its customers...not taking p'ing off customers and lawsuits before saying something.
 
Dark Jedi said:
Thats because they can control the tiered customers. If they go over their allotted amount of data. They have to pay more in overage fees. Where as grandfathered unlimited data customers there is no fail safes to keep them in line. Thats why they like the tiered people more.
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Yeah that is true. Its just a shame to think my money is worth less to them than someone else's because I've paid for their service longer :eek: however I know while I have contributed more the new customer is likely to be more profitable for them
 
Well they are not there to be your friend to ask you how your day went. They run a business to make money and they see grandfathered unlimited people as a problem to that. They know its cheaper to tier plans than to expand and update their network. Like at where I use to work at. They would rather not fix the machines and complain about production and quality suffering. then to fix or update the equipment because they would have to spend more money and they only think of the hear and now. Now that plant is closed lol.
 
this has gone back and forth ...

OK.. DJ you are right.. in the black and white meaning of unlimited data...
as long as you have access to any data (fast or slow) is still getting unlimited data.

but i argue that there are some implied benefits to that too..
example.. lunch buffet - all you can eat... it is implied that you can eat as much of the food that is laid out.. what if, after you have had 2 plates, you are only allowed salads with no dressing?
or
Rent a car..unlimited miles.. but after 200 miles.. you can only go 5 mph.. which is useless for anyone!

if they choose to lower your speed.. it should at least be still some what useful..
 
dan330 said:
this has gone back and forth ...

OK.. DJ you are right.. in the black and white meaning of unlimited data...
as long as you have access to any data (fast or slow) is still getting unlimited data.

but i argue that there are some implied benefits to that too..
example.. lunch buffet - all you can eat... it is implied that you can eat as much of the food that is laid out.. what if, after you have had 2 plates, you are only allowed salads with no dressing?
or
Rent a car..unlimited miles.. but after 200 miles.. you can only go 5 mph.. which is useless for anyone!

if they choose to lower your speed.. it should at least be still some what useful..
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Dark Jedi said:
I guess its right with verizon. I have noticed my speeds are better between 1am to about 7am. During the day it fluctuates and have periods of slow down. So it does sound like verizon does it this way.

I think thats how throttling should be based on congestion at the towers. Then slow it down when to many people are on it at the moment. Then when theres not as many on the tower the restriction is lifted. I think we can agree on that right?
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read bold please.
 
dan330 said:
this has gone back and forth ...

OK.. DJ you are right.. in the black and white meaning of unlimited data...
as long as you have access to any data (fast or slow) is still getting unlimited data.

but i argue that there are some implied benefits to that too..
example.. lunch buffet - all you can eat... it is implied that you can eat as much of the food that is laid out.. what if, after you have had 2 plates, you are only allowed salads with no dressing?
or
Rent a car..unlimited miles.. but after 200 miles.. you can only go 5 mph.. which is useless for anyone!

if they choose to lower your speed.. it should at least be still some what useful..
Click to expand...

Oh I hate analogies about this :p If I were going to use one I would say it is like going to an all you can eat place but as you eat the size of your plate gets smaller making you spend more time going back and forth and making the meal longer. I agree even throttled speeds should be fast enough to use the phone for basic web browsing which I know isn't the case currently with some companies.
 
Dark Jedi said:
Can you access data while throttled? Do they turn off your mobile internet after x gig is reached?

Then its unlimited. as you can still access all the data you want right?

So are people who has unlimited data plan lives in a 4g area and lose their 4g and have to go on 3g being throttled? because they can only access their data at slower speeds? They pay for 4g right and not getting their 4g.
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I don't think I need to post the definition of unlimited again. I believe you have gotten my point and are choosing to ignore it, which is your choice.:)

Yeahha said:
By definition then unthrottled unlimited is also not unlimited, there is always a cap to which data can be consumed over the network. If you say it is not unlimited because they lower the cap why would you call it unlimited if they didn't. If the maximum speed at which I can download something is 10 mbps there is a limit to how much I can download in a month. Changing the cap doesn't change the fact that it is still limited and being called unlimited.

IMO unlimited in this sense should be looked at as not tiered meaning regardless of how much you use you are charged the same if it is 1 GB or 100 GB you will pay the same amount.
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This isn't really the same argument. In the scenario you present, the carrier is offering unlimited data to the extent of what the network will allow, which is 3g/4g speeds, exactly what was promised. So there are no quams. In this situation, the carrier is not throttling you. They are honoring their claim of unlimited data on a 3g/4g network. They are not purposely restricting your data to a level lower than what is capable on the network.
 
tommy_ed said:
I don't think I need to post the definition of unlimited again. I believe you have gotten my point and are choosing to ignore it, which is your choice.:)



This isn't really the same argument. In the scenario you present, the carrier is offering unlimited data to the extent of what the network will allow, which is 3g/4g speeds, exactly what was promised. So there are no quams. In this situation, the carrier is not throttling you. They are honoring their claim of unlimited data on a 3g/4g network. They are not purposely restricting your data to a level lower than what is capable on the network.
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No you're choosing to ignore mine. As your definition doesn't pertain to throttling when they don't say unlimited data.
 
Dark Jedi said:
Well they are not there to be your friend to ask you how your day went. They run a business to make money and they see grandfathered unlimited people as a problem to that. They know its cheaper to tier plans than to expand and update their network. Like at where I use to work at. They would rather not fix the machines and complain about production and quality suffering. then to fix or update the equipment because they would have to spend more money and they only think of the hear and now. Now that plant is closed lol.
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Yup, its back to the grocery story comparison said last night where we see more smaller paxkages while the prices are the same or higher.. Why offer unlimited for $30 month when they sell you.a smaller package for the same price I.e. 3GB tiered where gif you go over) theu get more from you.

And yup the new customer is more "profitable" than an existing customer because they can start a new cust out at the higher priced and only-avail deals.
 
pupkact said:
This is correct. I've read it somewhere (maybe even VZW's TOS). They flag you as a heavy user for the current and subsequent billing cycles as a potential throttling target.

If you are using a busy tower, when that tower is busy, and you have been flagged for throttling, your data will be slowed only enough to provide adequate data speeds to all of the users on the tower at the time of congestion.

When I read that, it sounds more like network management through a throttling policy that is dynamic in its flagging and implementation. I would bet that many VZW users have been throttled and didn't even know it. The AT&T model seems more arbitrary and punitive.

Just my opinion.:rolleyes:
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And that,, ladies and gents just about sums it up. Looks like Verizon comes out on top with a better means for throttling over Att and Verizon didnt hide their model from its customers like att did until they got sued.
 
Rico ANDROID said:
And that,, ladies and gents just about sums it up. Looks like Verizon comes out on top with a better means for throttling over Att and Verizon didnt hide their model from its customers like att did until they got sued.
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Yes I am in complete agreement with you there :D It may not be throttling that is the issue with many folks but rather the method used to implement it
 
I think someone's already touched on this, but I can't stress it enough, I can see this severely hindering cloud computing. Who wants to store media on the cloud if their mobile provider is going to stifle their data after they reach a certain limit? This will also make people second guess fixed-storage devices like the Nexus, the iPhone, and the iPad. The whole premise of Cloud computing will pretty much suffer once the major mobile carriers decide to push their data throttling policy onto consumers. I can see it now, you buy a movie on your device, and store it on the cloud. You can watch the movie once before your carrier decides to throttle your service. I guess what might eventually happen is everyone will start leeching off of nearby Wifi hotspots at their local Starbucks, McDonalds, or Burger King until these companies decide to turn off their services.
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